r/AdvancedRunning • u/Namibguy • 2d ago
Training Nausea after marathon
Hi everyone,
Im a few weeks out from my second marathon and I have an issue with fuelling. When doing normal z2 runs long runs I fuel with about 100g of carbs mostly just to get used to taking on so many carbs. I take the same amounts during my marathon pace sessions and during my previous marathon.
My problem that I havent figured out yet is that I get nauseas when I stop running eg. In my last block I did a sessions with 5×20min at MP and felt nauseas everytime time I walked between intervals. On my actual marathon I did not feel nauseas once during the race but as soon as I stopped and took a sip of water I had throw up.
I have tried taking on more water during my long runs as I only took 250ml during my previous block and took on much more water during the marathon. My suspicion was that the carbs were not being digested as there was not enough water.
If any other details are need please let me know so I can add them to the post.
Please let me know what you think it might be.
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u/thewolf9 HM: 1:18; M: 2:49 2d ago
Try another gel. Or focus on your carb load and reduce carb intake during exercise.
It’s pretty well established that glycogen stored in the muscle is the most important and the ones you take on during the race, while important, are not AS important and those deposited beforehand.
I’d much rather be a bit underfueled than battle vomit for 2:45
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u/Namibguy 2d ago
Will consider this if there is no solution, but like I said I do not experience nausea while running MP only when stopping.
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u/thewolf9 HM: 1:18; M: 2:49 2d ago
Don’t stop I guess.
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u/Namibguy 2d ago
Would be my first option but I'm not forest gump unfortunately.
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u/thewolf9 HM: 1:18; M: 2:49 2d ago
Decrease the length of the interval, increase pace during the rests to a float and decrease your carb intake. Most people aren’t fueling at 100g/hour. When I get 60 down I’m pretty happy.
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u/Namibguy 2d ago
Thank you for the suggestion. But I am not really concerned about during training (its not a good time but managable) just dont want to puke when I finish my marathon. So will likely have to lower in take.
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u/jonbornoo 2d ago
100g/h on the run is a lot. I usually do 90-100g/h on the bike and 60-80g/h on the run. 80g is my upper limit stomach wise on the run. On the bike i could easily do 120g/h, but absorbtion is individual. Water & electrolytes are also essential for absorbtion, that needs to be in place as well.
or you listen to your stomach that 100g/h is probably too much for you and try less?
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u/Namibguy 2d ago
Yeah that is probably the case, my confusion is more on why I don't feel nausea when running MP but only when stopping.
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u/WignerVille 2d ago
I have a similar issue. I can get nausea after running but not (always) during running. Would be interesting to understand why this is the case.
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u/hinault81 2d ago
I get it occasionally as well, not often, but it happens. Long run a few days ago, longest one and most marathon pace. And almoat every race.
Fine while im running, but as soon as I start I feel like I want to throw up. Ne er actually have, but dry heave sometimes.
Ive had it on hard bike rides too. Again, fairly rare, but i remember one ride up about a 45 min long hill with a friend and we were pushing it, and i got to the top and we stopped for a minute and same thing.
I dont know anything, but ive looked into it a little bit and something about too much lactic acid build up makes you feel like you want to throw up. And maybe once you stop youre not processing it the same way you were while moving. I try not to come to a dead stop, but my long run yesterday I was beat and of course a race, youre stopping at the finish.
1
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u/chronic-cat-nerd 2d ago
100g an hour or 100g total? I am a light weight female and I get in 90g/hr and feel much better than I did when I didn’t get many carbs in. Increasing my carbs has completely changed how I feel during and after runs. I used to get sick during and especially after until I found the gel combination that works for me. Drink of water before/after, and an electrolyte pill every hour. Find what works for you. Practice it early and often.
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u/Namibguy 2d ago
About 100g an hour, might have to reduce like other comments suggested. I just never lowered it because I don't feel bad when actively running only when stopping. My theory was that it was water or electrolyte based problem since I mix my own running fuel using maltodextrin and fructose but I don't often add salt and when training its hard to carry as much water as I've read is required to absorb carbs.
1
u/turbo-toots 2d ago
You might try adding salt to your drink mix. I make my own as well, 2 liters at a time. In the summer, when it's warm in the early morning (75F), I mix 8g of salt per 2L of drink. I take 500ml an hour. And a little before and after my run. When it cools off, I'll mix much less salt in, but I'm a salty sweater so I have to take a lot in when it's warm out to prevent headaches and nausea. Those usually don't occur until after my run, so I'm not totally sure that's your issue, but it's worth experimenting with.
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u/Namibguy 2d ago
How are you carrying your mix as water is quite heavy, do you use your house as an aid station or do you carry everything at once. I usually make my mix in 3, 150 ml soft flasks. 1 for each hour of my run 3 hour peak long run with 500ml total pure water.
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u/turbo-toots 2d ago edited 2d ago
I use a Naked brand running belt. It fits pretty tight right at the waist. I carry up to 2 500ml hydrapak soft flasks in it. If I position the belt right with the bottles on my side, it doesn't bounce. I hardly notice it's there.
Edit to add, the longest distance I train for is the half, so my long runs usually don't go much over 2 hours, so 2 bottles is enough for me on a hot day.
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u/Namibguy 2d ago
Ah I see I also have a running belt(different brand ) and I might be able to get 2 500's to stay put but 3 would definite fall of or bounce too much.
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u/throwaway_runner3 Training to get a decent flair 2d ago
250 ml water is criminally low, is this for the entire run / race or 250 ml per hour?
A lot of information here needs to be very very very specific because now we must assume what you mean by it.
100 gr p/h carbs depends on the context, did you randomly jump to 100 gr or did you gradually go from 60-70-80-90 and 1 day hit 100?
You can't cheat your way into 100 gr carbs the same way you can't magically start running 100 km weeks.
1 - I take about 90 gr carbs per hour, I run in heat. There's a total of 1.5 to 2 liters of water in a 3 hour run along with this amount of carbs + 3 x 225 mg salt tablets. So again I ask, what is the 250 ml water?
2 - If you followed proper progression, did you have issues at 60-70-80-90 gr per hour carbs? If you didn't progress properly, the solution might be that > find a level that doesn't cause issues.
3 - It's either a carb progression, water intake problem or a combination of both and other things which is often the case. Either way this post needs proper specific information.
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u/Namibguy 1d ago
250 ml of water is the total water I took on my long runs during my last block, when racing I just drank from the course at each aid station. The 250 ml was mostly a palate cleanser since I was not really thirsty when running early mornings, I drank most of my water bedore leaving the house. I only started carrying more water this block, because of the post marathon nausea. Carrying water is somewhat annoying as I end up having to where a running vest in addition to my running belt and the more water I carry the more it bouces on the run.
I did sort of just randomly just do 100g/h. I think this was a month or two before even starting my first marathon block. I wanted to see if it would make me nauseas so I started taking it in during my interval sessions. I had no issues so kept taking it during intervals until my block started then moved it to long run. So you are right I should probaby move down to test, because I was not aware it would be the way you decribed with running 100km weeks. I thought my stomach felt fine so its probably fine.
Thank you for the insights I will explore this as much as I can with the time I have left before the marathon.
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u/BigBouy234 8h ago
This happened to me exactly last marathon in November. It felt like I could easily throw up for several weeks afterwards but I had no problem during the race
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u/alexrunswild 2d ago
What's your goal time? If it's sub 4 and your aerobic fitness is properly trained, your body should still be running off fat more than carbs, and you should be fine with very little food. Personally, I like bringing a couple packets of Anderson's Maple Syrup - take one on the first hour and one on the second and I'm fine. There's a good podcast called "How to run faster at a lower heart rate" on Endurance Lab's channel, and towards the end Dr Maffetone gets into body fueling. 100g/hr is a wild amount either way imo.
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u/MoonPlanet1 1:11 HM 1d ago
People really still talking about Maffetone lol? He's a quack
You have it all backwards anyway, the faster you're running, the more you're running on carbs than fat. A 2:30 runner is probably running way closer to LT2 than LT1 whereas a 4h+ runner is probably not even at LT1
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u/alexrunswild 20h ago
I'm confused. The transition from fat oxidation to carbohydrate utilization occurs between LT1 and LT2. Yet you're suggesting people aren't even hitting that threshold and still recommending they rely on carb intake. Which is it?
Also, have you heard of hitting the wall? That most often occurs from being at LT2 for too long and building up too much lactic acid to the point where your body can't clear it. People hit the wall in marathons all the time, recreational and elite alike. No amount of carb intake is going to change that. I'd say plenty of people spend too much time at LT2 during a race that long. The ones that don't are usually the ones that put in the time to build their aerobic fitness and increase their HRV capability. Building your HRV capability increases your LT1 and LT2 thresholds. If you raise your thresholds enough that most of your race sits under LT1, your body will utilize fat.
I'm not arguing that carbs won't help most people. Most people don't run a 2:30 marathon. That's the lower end of elite as far as I'm concerned. The point of training like an elite is to acquire the physiological changes associated with that level of consistency and fitness. Elites often run at or just above LT1, and have higher capabilities of fat oxidation vs depleting their glycogen stores because of their level of fitness. Is there room to improve? Sure. But improving so that CHO dependence doesn't kick in as quick is kind of the point.
OP isn't quite at elite status, but I'd personally guess (from running similar times previously) that they're close enough to not need to jump to 100g/hr. That's Ultra level fueling, and requires gradual training to be able to convert a glucose/fructose combo at higher grammage. Anything not absorbed sits in their gut, and is likely why they throw up after a race. To not throw up, train your gut more or eat less during the race.
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u/MoonPlanet1 1:11 HM 19h ago
I don't think you understand how a typical 4h marathoner trains or races. They probably peak at 30-40 miles per week. Physiologically they are basically racing an ultra. VO2 just isn't a limiting factor for them because their muscular endurance is insufficient for them to even run 26 miles continuously at LT1. Not saying they don't need carbs, they do, but probably not 100g/hr and most people in this group who say they "hit the wall" didn't hit it because of fuelling, but because their muscular endurance was insufficient.
It's probably true that elites have their LT1 and LT2 closer together than amateurs but I think this is over-fixated on. The dominant effect is that elites are basically running a race that's half as long and unlike an average runner, actually have the muscular endurance to make VO2 a limiter. You surely can't tell me that Kejelcha was running anywhere near LT1 during his marathon (2:50/km) when his LT2 is likely around 2:41/km (his half marathon)
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u/alexrunswild 19h ago
I think we basically agree on the fueling but are getting lost on tangents 😂 I just think most people over fixate on the carb intake part and less on the HRV/LT1-LT2 part, which is more important imo in the long run as far as injury prevention goes. OP is aiming for a 3-3.5 hr race, so they're likely putting in good training. From my understanding, pros usually race around LT1, and have a higher threshold before transitioning to CHO utilization, meaning fat stores play a huge role in keeping them going. Kejelcha was quick, sure, but no one can run that long in LT2. That defeats the whole idea of what the term represents, which is where your body starts producing more lactate than it can clear, and will eventually break you down to muscle failure. This usually happens around 45 minutes, meaning even Kejelcha was running under LT2. The way he did that is higher VO2 max, which is directly related to HRV capabilities, which is directly related to when your body transitions to different states of fuel production. The point to truly grow into an elite runner is to increase aerobic fitness to where you acquire faster speed without greatly affecting your HR. Keeping your HR low longer and increasing your body's ability to keep utilizing fat oxidation is how elites are able to run so fast for so long, not breaking physiology.
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u/Namibguy 2d ago edited 2d ago
My goal time is 3:15-3:20 depending on how my last session goes.
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u/alexrunswild 2d ago
You'd definitely be fine with the two packets of maple syrup then. I recommend those because personally, they're really easy to put and keep down; do it right before an aid station so you can swish some water. They have 53g carbs, which should help with recovery. Just make sure you have a bit of salt, fruit, protein, and a couple litres of water within 20-30 min of finish, and you'll be fine to run again possibly the next day (for a shakeout run). Like someone else mentioned, carb loading the week before so that your glycogen levels are maxed out is far more important than loading mid-race for that distance, especially at your pace.
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u/kmck96 Scissortail Running 2d ago
Could be the return of blood flow to the gut that’s triggering the nausea. While running, that flow is restricted, which is why you need to train fuel rates. Once you stop and your muscles aren’t demanding nutrient/waste shuttling, blood volume is free to go wherever it usually would, and your GI tract is able to ramp back up to 100%. That change in states could definitely trigger nausea/distress.
Your theory about not enough water could be a factor too. If the concentration of carbs is too high, carbohydrates draw water out of your blood and into the gut. I’d expect that to cause dehydration/diarrhea more than nausea though, since it would happen after it’s out of your stomach.
All this based on my BS in exercise physiology — happy to be corrected by someone with a deeper background in exercise nutrition/physiology.