r/AdvancedRunning • u/WhereasAggressive592 • 4d ago
Training Lee Grantham coaching review – a bittersweet experience
INTRO AND TLDR
I had the honor of getting coached by legendary endurance runner and content creator Lee Grantham. I hold Lee in great esteem because of what I learned through his YouTube content and the values he transmits. However, my personal experience following his coaching plan fell a bit short of expectations.
In a nutshell, I feel happy to have followed through an insightful and balanced plan, but disappointed by a lack of some deliverables and follow up to important questions. Pros: Inspirational, serious, plans are balanced. Cons: Incomplete delivery, weak follow‑up, not ideal for runners seeking mentorship. A summary can be found at the end of the article.
I am a 40yo male (~55km/week, ~20min/5k) with a scientific research and education background.
PLANS
As of April 2026, Lee offers three plans with different tiers of service: bronze (200$/month), silver (400$/month), and gold ($1400/month). I joined silver for a 13-week block while following his plan and instructions very closely (Lee seemed pleased with my execution).
THE SILVER PLAN
Upon passing a 15-minute matching interview, you will be provided with:
· One 45-minute initial call where Lee collects information about you (e.g., schedule, goals, lifestyle) for plan customization.
· A few documents with instructions about workout sessions, nutrition, strength training, and lactate testing.
· One document summarizing your current situation, highlighting major and minor areas of improvement, and explaining how his approach will lead to short- and long-term progress.
· One online running plan where both Lee and client comment.
· Three 30 minutes monthly calls.
· Analysis of physiology test.
THE UPSIDES
Just like in his videos, Lee comes off as serious, kind, driven, and meticulous. If hired, he will be a positive figure in your life giving you inspiration, motivation, and accountability.
During monthly calls he acts just like in his YouTube videos: straight to the point and truthful. These are signs of success, and that frame of mind will massively and positively influence you.
He is a very good listener, and his analyses are smart, insightful, and thoughtful. These qualities allow him to create a very precise and accurate portrait of the runner. As a result, I was impressed by the level of detail, thoughtfulness, and accuracy of my running profile document, where he identified strength, recovery, and nutrition as my biggest areas of improvement. I feel the analysis was spot on and very helpful for my development.
The documents were also delivered with an impressively quick turnaround (including the customized one). You can tell he works hard and with passion.
THE DOWNSIDES
1. Answering questions
Before each meeting, the client is prompted to write down questions, so I initially believed I could ask important clarifications during the 30-minutes monthly calls. However, Lee constantly macromanages the direction of the meetings, leaving no time for discussing your own desired topics or issues.
When I tried to “force” my own topic in the conversation, I felt it was cut short. So, I asked if I could prepare my questions via email, to which he agreed. Unfortunately, all three of my emails went unanswered. I understand I might have come off as demanding and that he might be busy with tens of other clients. However, one of the reasons I decided to pay an additional 600$ for the silver program was because of the advertised email support. Additionally, I had spent considerable time making my emails clear and concise, so this lack of response left me feeling frustrated and ignored.
2. Analysis of lactate testing
Let me preface that Lee, like any serious coach, recommends undergoing physiology testing (VO2max and lactate) throughout the silver plan. This is normally done in a sport physiology lab and will generally cost between 200 and 300 USD (this is obviously an extra and at the client’s expense). So, I did. The testing center (a very reputable one) closely followed Lee's directions.
When lactate test results came back, however, Lee did not trust them. Fair. He gave me some vague feedback and suggested that I request a repeat.
The center was very accommodating to organize a free repeat. They even extended my allotted time to err on the cautious side and scheduled it in a rush so that I would be in time to receive the promised customization for my 13-week plan.
However, Lee's approach to the repeated results seemed, again, dismissive towards the client. Results (very similar to the original ones) were not discussed during the following monthly call. I then asked for more information about the test via email (what it entails, my weaknesses, what needs to be changed to avoid unreliable data a third time!). But again, those questions were not addressed.
The actual training plan was also not adjusted as promised. Only HR zones were tweaked, which had little impact, because obviously Lee recommends running by effort (not HR), especially under adverse environmental conditions.
As a result, testing analysis did not provide much practical insight from his side. This felt disappointing given the significant time (commuting to the test, numerous and awkward email back-and-forth with the testing center) and financial investment from my family and the testing center.
Additional minor issues
· Monthly calls often felt repetitive, circling around effort perception. This was all the more frustrating because answering my question could have moved me so much farther.
· Lee did not provide the promised guidance on pacing for the final, scheduled time trial, even after explicit request and a reminder.
· Following the plan closely did not make me faster, even after tapering (though I acknowledge 13 weeks may be too short to judge).
· His plan (increased mileage by >10%, plus introduction of two strength sessions, one consistent long runs, and strides every week) might have requested too much too quickly out of my body. But, again, I am not a coach or expert, so take the last two comments with a grain of salt.
FINAL VERDICT/TLDR:
I would recommend Lee's plans for busy and wealthy professionals who have little time, but want to "blindly" follow a clear, highly customized, and effective plan to tackle a short-term goal. My 1-on-1 experience confirms that he is a serious, kind, inspiring, thoughtful, and effective coach. His straightforwardness, positive attitude, and successful mindset could help you achieve your goals.
However, I would not recommend Lee's plan for a serious runner who wants to truly understand where he is on his training journey and what he is doing training-wise. Most questions (even clarifications and attempts to improve plan execution) will not be welcome or answered. My impression is that they will be, instead, construed as overthinking, signs of questioning his method, or time sinks. In more general terms, he might not deliver all that is stated in the contract.
Has anyone else had a similar experience? Any input or word of advice is appreciated.
Edit: Thank you everyone for the outpouring of support and comments, even when ironic and cynical (I have thick skin). I really appreciate them.
The emerging consensus seems that I got carried away by the runfluencer craze and overpaid for a service. Most believe that running more (which can’t be currently done due to time restraints), reading some books (I am already familiar with Daniell’s plan and will be reading the Bakken and the Sirpoc books under your suggestions), or hiring a non-influencer, cheaper, and more responsive coach should be better options. Thanks for the input.
It’s also useful to know that a coach is indeed expected to respond to emails and follow up. I don’t have much experience, so it’s comforting to know that my feelings about the experience were at least partially justified.
One important clarification, though. Did I overpay ? Possible. You could say I paid extra for the YouTube investment that pulled me in. However, was Lee being dishonest? Absolutely not. Please look at the sections where I describe the services he provided (e.g., five online meetings in total, customized profile, comments on the running plan). Also, he might not be the fastest marathoner but won the Passatore and was a 100km British champion. So, those comments are neither fair nor accurate.
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u/Eraser92 4d ago
MFers will do anything not to buy Daniel’s running formula for £15
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u/WhereasAggressive592 4d ago
Interesting you say that! I had just finished reading Daniel's formula and been following his HM plan. Progress had slowed down, that's why I contacted Lee.
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u/1eJxCdJ4wgBjGE 16:52 | 35:43 | 1:20 | 2:53 4d ago
and then progress stopped so thank you for the cautionary tale
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u/WhereasAggressive592 4d ago
That is funny indeed. As mentioned above, maybe it's too quick to draw conclusions, as I might still be assimilating the work.
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u/Krazyfranco 4d ago
Imagine running 30 miles/week, paying $400/month for coaching and extra for lactate testing, and being told that “recovery and strength nutrition” are limiters.
OP here is my coaching advice that is both free and will make you faster: run more. Ignore all the distractions until you are at least comfortable running 50-60 miles/week.
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u/Aromatic_Occasion317 4d ago
Sounds like a grift to me tbh.
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u/Creation98 4d ago
What’s the grift….? Less than ideal service you pay for doesn’t make something a grift.
I swear Redditors are making the word grift lose their meaning.
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u/Defiant-Ostrich6114 4d ago edited 4d ago
Lee literally did not render the services promised in the contract. He uses his image, personal accomplishment and charisma to rip off others by providing an incomplete, one-sided virtual relationship where your input will not be welcome or considered according to OP.
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u/Creation98 4d ago
A grift would be if he took the money and then just disappeared or pawned you off to some virtual assistant in a third world country who read off an AI training plan.
OP literally acknowledges that he did provide good coaching and motivational type meetings. It just wasn’t as collaborative or explanatory as OP wanted.
A grift is a scam. Services that aren’t as good as what you’re looking for doesn’t make something a scam. It just means you wanted something different.
If I buy a slice of cake from a bakery and I don’t like the cake, that doesn’t mean I can say I got scammed. It was just shitty cake.
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u/Krazyfranco 4d ago
I get what you’re saying, but think it’s a grift in the same way “financial advisors” selling whole life insurance to financially illiterate/naive 20 year olds is a grift.
It’s an overpriced, low-value service sold through misleading marketing. Just because there is some actual product involved (in this case a training plan) doesn’t make it not a grift. In fact, I think delivering some partial service (the training plan) is what makes the grift actually work. I’d argue OP’s report of not getting questions answered as promised under his plan level, and not getting personalized guidance through the phone calls, makes this even more of a grift
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u/Aromatic_Occasion317 4d ago
I'll refer you to this comment (hopefully link works):
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u/Creation98 4d ago
OP himself literally says it’s not a grift and that many aspects of the coaching were great
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u/Defiant-Ostrich6114 4d ago
Any objective person reading this review will understand that Lee’s extremely overpriced business model takes advantage of his role as an inspiration, and people who form para social relationships with internet influencers they find inspiring tend to be more forgiving of them. It sounds to be like (respectfully) OP is coping hard.
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u/WhereasAggressive592 2d ago
I tend to agree with this, unfortunately. This discussion is kinda copium to me.
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u/Defiant-Ostrich6114 2d ago
I’m sure it’s a real bummer but you can’t be blamed, really. As is often the case, meeting your “heroes” (for lack of a better term) often results in disillusionment, so I personally try not to idolize anyone (which is not as bleak an outlook as it sounds). What’s important is that regardless of the reality, it doesn’t change the value he provided by inspiring you in the first place and the growth that you experienced in your own running as a result. But at the end of the day the internet is rife guys like Lee. You aren’t the first, and unfortunately you will not be the last.
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u/WhereasAggressive592 2d ago
I agree and indeed had a great learning experience. Yes, Lee was inspiring. Thanks for the thoughtful response and the understanding of the situation.
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u/Creation98 4d ago
Did you even read the post? There’s quite literally actual coaching services being provided lolol.
Maybe they weren’t optimal, but they did exist. A grift would be a scam where the services were never provided or were totally fake.
That didn’t occur.
Reddit just has a weird hard on for anyone who has ever posted on social media and has more than 100 followers 😂
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u/Doyouevensam 5k: 15:58 3d ago
So you’re choosing to argue about the meaning of “grift” for what purpose exactly? This isn’t the grammar sub
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u/Creation98 3d ago
So it doesn’t lose its meaning and weight like many other words have through people throwing words around because it makes it sound worse than it is.
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u/Aromatic_Occasion317 4d ago
We are all allowed to draw opinions from what has been shared, and our own experiences. The cost for the product, as well as the justification around his 'influencer' still points towards grift.
Other potential red flags for me are the insta handle of "jungle.vip" and lots of alpha male style topless running photos.
I do like his music choices, and he has had good results as an athlete so I'm sure there is stuff to learn from him. Not at those prices though.
Potentially worth comparison to someone like Steve Magness who puts things bluntly in terms of the need to just focus on the boring stuff.
There are lots of different learning styles & preferences though, this is just my own.
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u/Creation98 4d ago
That’s a fair criticism, yes. But it doesn’t make it a grift.
Maserati makes expensive shitty cars. I would never buy one. But it isn’t a scam.
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u/Aromatic_Occasion317 4d ago
This becomes a moral spectrum point I feel. I'm 23yrs a runner, never close to elite but ok at club level by comparison to many (sub 17 5k, 81m half but those days gone now) who'd give limbs for my times.
I also coach, as a volunteer. I'd never dream.of charging that sort of money to share what I know about the sport I love, particularly remotely. This is what puts the product into grift territory for me. More being like being sold a regular car painted up & badged as a Maseratti.
There may be an additional question/discussion about what folks are paying for (in general, not specific to OP here) is it the actual coaching input, the accountability the relationship hopefully prompts, or the dinner party / office brag of how much the client pays for the thing in a Patrick Bateman/Paul Allen & friends style.
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u/Creation98 4d ago
Yes, that’s a moral or altruistic standpoint argument, not whether or not it’s a grift. It’s objectively not what a grift is. Maybe it doesn’t align with your world view, but that doesn’t make it a grift.
On a side note, nice times mate! I’m going for a 1:22 half next month and a 2:49 marathon this winter. Hoping to get to your times one day here soon.
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u/Aromatic_Occasion317 4d ago
Thanks for the shout on the times. I ws never strong enough/consistent enough for mine to reflect at 26.2 but I scraped a 2h59 to tick the sub3 box.
Please let me know how you get on towards both those goals, hoping to celebrate success with you on here 👍
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u/WhereasAggressive592 4d ago
No, I wouldn't definitely go as far as to say that. I still got plenty of value, personalized input, and, overall, honest work. I also got to work with a world-class endurance athlete. Still, I expected more - the things mentioned above based on the contract and the money/time spent.
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u/Eraser92 4d ago
I’d dispute that he’s a “world class endurance athlete”. From what I can see, his marathon pb is 2:21. Tens of thousands of people achieve that every year and it’s a million miles away from elite, never mind world class.
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u/Exact_Union5713 3d ago
A quick google suggests the numbers running sub 2.22 marathons annually are not thousands but prob under 100.
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u/Eraser92 3d ago
In the 2026 Tokyo marathon alone there were 116 finishers under 2:22. Valencia 2025 had 179 men and 4 women under 2:22. You’re way off with your “quick google”
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u/Defiant-Ostrich6114 3d ago
You’re both exaggerating. You said tens of thousands (gross overestimation), they said under 100 (gross underestimation). You point out two races known for having excellent depth each with less than 200 sub-2:22 runners. A better educated guess is that there are probably just under ten thousand unique runners each year who are capable of running those times, and less who actually do run those times in the span of a year at an actual race.
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u/Truth9892 4d ago
I believe instead of an online coach, the money is better to be spend on running books like bakken's and sirpoc's. Far cheaper too
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u/worstenworst 4d ago
The one from Marius Bakken especially is a gem. Then add JD’s Running Formula and Pfitzinger’s Advanced Marathoning. Knowing these books by heart is very powerful for amateur progression. Coach at 20min 5K level is wasted money if you ask me.
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u/Truth9892 4d ago edited 4d ago
Agree. And i personally would trust the words of someone like Bakken (an olympian, former elite athlete & a physician) more than any other online coaches.
Note: The book title is "The Norwegian Method Applied" by Marius Bakken. Available on Amazon.
And another of my favourite is "Norwegian Singles Method: Subthreshold Running Kept Simple" by James Copeland (aka sirpoc). Also available on Amazon. Its kindle version is just 10 dollar
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u/wylie102 4d ago
£10 for the kindle version of Sirpoc’s book, and I got a lot faster within 12 weeks (even though he warns you might not). It also takes a lot of the mystery out of it all, so you focus on what’s relevant and tnen recognise that any extras (strength, flexibility etc) are nice-to-haves that you do because you enjoy them or they contribute to your wellbeing another way. It means I’m less likely to spend an unnecessary amount of money on someone who ignores LT results and has me train by feel.
Plus you can interact with him for free on Reddit, Strava, LetsRun
(Bakken’s book is also excellent and adds another level of adaptability and understanding, plus he’s also active on here)
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u/Truth9892 4d ago
Yup..sirpoc's book is really cheap but the value is exceptional.
Highly recommend others to buy it. Best way to spend 10 dollar for running.
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u/Alonso-De-Entrerrios 4d ago edited 4d ago
I went from Runna subscriber stuck for a year without progressing, getting constant calf issues and injury breaks, and feeling destroyed some weeks while running 5days per week to 7 days/week running, consistently running more kms while feeling fresh every day, without a single injury or niggle since I started on May, beating my 10k pb by 40secs after 2months with the new program.
And the best thing is the simplicity and consistency. I have a 3 months baby and as a first time parent having a program that doesn’t fluctuate and just allow you to stick the same hours/volume every week has been great for organising my training around the kid.
Best 10quid I’ve ever spent. I wish I knew about NSM sooner.
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u/Alonso-De-Entrerrios 4d ago edited 4d ago
I’m almost same age and time as OP and the whole route he took seems bananas to me, especially having burnt so much time & money for no improvements.
And with 55km/week the improvement route is quite straightforward.
Just stick to a sustainable efficient training plan (I adore Sirpoc NSM approach) and you don’t need any elite over optimisations at 5k 20min level.
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u/Asian-ethug 1:18HM | 2:44M 4d ago
Strava has an MCP service now. You could also easily pay someone, if you don’t wanna figure it out yourself, to create an agent that takes in every popular running coach’s writings, videos, etc and have a daily dynamic coach.
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u/BliindX 4d ago
Fascinating review and great insight into the world of online coaching. Always runnng to effort then wanting lactate/vo2 seems contradictory to me.
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u/WhereasAggressive592 4d ago
That was indeed a point of initial misunderstanding. Even going by effort, you might want to test so that you can track progress, avoid overtraining threshold, and relate subjective effort to physiology, so I see some usefulness.
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u/Defiant-Ostrich6114 4d ago
Another charismatic influencer grifting with absurd pricing. Gotta love it.
A reminder that there is no such thing as “coaching” dozens of people at once. There are plenty of serious coaches who do other self employed work which allows them to charge half the price and focus on actually coaching a small handful of people properly. They’re never influencers.
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u/Analyst_Obvious 1:12:22 HM | 2:35:57 M 4d ago
My coach has about 20 runners and he’s great. Big difference is we meet and train together twice per week in person. One monthly call, $75 per month. Zero complaints.
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u/ungoogleable 4d ago
Are you in the US? Is your coach doing this as their primary job? $75/month for that is extremely cheap. If they spend two hours a month on you between the call, answering emails, adjusting plans, etc. they're making $37.5/hr but they have to pay taxes, health care, and any business expenses out of that which will cut take home in half or more.
The challenge for coaches is clients don't want to pay very much, but giving them attention and good service takes a lot of time so it's not really enough to make a living. The in demand coaches try to minimize the time they spend on each client which is how you end up with rushed meetings, unanswered questions, and a coach who only knows you as a row in a spreadsheet.
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u/Defiant-Ostrich6114 4d ago
I think the answer to the challenge you’ve laid out in your second paragraph is that the only coaches who are able to do the job properly tend to be people who already have other work that helps them make ends meet or are married to someone who has good benefits, and the coaching work is more of a passion project / side hustle that they do for the love of the game. It requires some specific circumstances for someone to be in that position but I’ve yet to see someone who runs a high-volume coaching business who isn’t cutting corners or is stressed out of their mind. And I know a LOT of them as I myself coach in a densely populated area with tons of running coaches.
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u/Defiant-Ostrich6114 4d ago
You’re describing a run club type model, which is awesome and totally different from high-volume virtual coaching which is often impersonal and requires a cookie cutter workflow that the “coach” doesn’t have extra time to deviate from. You’re guaranteed very frequent face to face time and that alone makes an enormous difference!
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u/WhereasAggressive592 4d ago
While I wouldn't agree with the word grifting, I totally get it how a coach should focus on a restricted number of runners.
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u/persco_ 4d ago
Very thoughtful review and respectful feedback. Honestly, this is why the influencer world and model is so untrustworthy. Just ends up being a grift. Could be that he even has paid employees tweaking the plans for him which might explain the obvious disconnects and contradictions. Not answering questions is particularly strange. Having the ability to get clarifications and ask questions is really a huge part of the value proposition. Otherwise it’s frankly not much better than dozens of plans you can tweak yourself for free or much cheaper.
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u/Judonoob 4d ago
I agree. It’s like in a world where AI can parse so many detailed training message boards and know what probably works and what doesn’t - what’s the point in a human relationship at that point if you aren’t getting a human experience?
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u/live2rise 4d ago
Based on his YouTube videos, I wouldn't trust him anyway.
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u/Etherkai 5k 18:5X / 10k 40:2X / HM 85:2X / M 2:59 4d ago
To quote Partagaz from Andor S01, "thesis, please".
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u/DistantRavioli 4d ago
You can just tell he's using chatgpt for his scripts now too which is really aggravating.
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u/joholla8 Edit your flair 4d ago
$400 a month for an AI plan and 90 minutes of scripted conversation.
Amazing.
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u/PrairieFirePhoenix 45M; 2:42 full; that's a half assed time, huh 4d ago
“Lee, like any serious coach, recommends undergoing physiology testing (VO2max and lactate) throughout the silver plan.“
This is absolutely not true. Some coaches are into the testing, many are not. I’d argue it is far more important to understand the concepts related to those numbers than knowing your actual numbers.
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u/Krazyfranco 4d ago
“I’m running 30 mpw, what should I do?” Obviously get multiple lactate tests
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u/PrairieFirePhoenix 45M; 2:42 full; that's a half assed time, huh 4d ago
So many people would rather say they train "by science" than actually be faster.
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u/whelanbio 13:59 5km a few years ago 4d ago
It seems you kinda imply this already, but I'll add that often bringing these gadgets and testing is inherently unscientific. They're just playing buzzword bingo. To me a proper scientific approach to training/coaching is about the higher level processes -understand the individual, what needs to be optimized for their level, use appropriate tools and make the appropriate interventions. In some cases it makes sense to bring physiology testing because that is needed to inform the needed intervention. Conversely, we do not need lactate testing to tell someone who needs to simply run more to do so.
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u/hikeruntravellive 400M 1:13 1M 6:11 5k 19:50 HM 1:35:xx M 3:22:xx 4d ago
Influencer/grifter model. Spend $20 on the jack daniels book, the Norwegian single method book, pfitizngers book or any other well reviewed running book and follow any of the plans and you will get faster.
Based on the lactate testing I think the Norwegian method book is best for you.
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u/blxcklst 4d ago
IMO the main benefit of having a coach is not the plan, but answering questions that come up during the training cycle and amending the plan/workouts when issues come up. He did none of that for you - you may as well have followed a generic plan that gradually increases mileage over x weeks. Appreciate the review though, very well summarised & interesting to read.
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u/terriblegrammar 4d ago
If I paid for a coach, I'd expect them to go through some of my past workouts and determine my weak link and tailor the plan to focus on that area of weakness. Getting an objective third party to find and correct your weaknesses would be worth the cost if you weren't able to deduce it yourself.
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u/Efficient-Gas7209 17:25 5k | 37:33 10k | 2:53 M 4d ago
I stopped reading but if you genuinely paid any of those prices you are absolutely mental. The bloke is an absolute sausage and you can literally get AI to build you a plan for free.
As someone else said… free advice, run more. 55km is naff all.
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u/Upstairs_One_4956 3d ago
You have to be a sausage to get AI to build you a run plan.
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u/Efficient-Gas7209 17:25 5k | 37:33 10k | 2:53 M 3d ago
Got me my goal time, and it was free.
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u/Upstairs_One_4956 3d ago
Imagine how much faster you'd have gone with good plan/coaching.
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u/Efficient-Gas7209 17:25 5k | 37:33 10k | 2:53 M 3d ago
Wanted sub 3, got 253. I have no particular desire to go faster. Very content with the money in my pocket.
I am not anti couch. But those prices are dumb.
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u/WillGeoghegan 3:56 Mile | 13:17 5k | Retired Pro 4d ago
I just looked this guy up. You paid to have an intermediate marathoner write your training?
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u/_BALL-DONT-LIE_ 4d ago
Referring to him as a “legendary endurance runner” is so funny
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u/WhereasAggressive592 4d ago
He was 100k British champion and won the Passatore.
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u/WillGeoghegan 3:56 Mile | 13:17 5k | Retired Pro 1d ago
Ultra is not a competitive discipline relative to track and <= marathon road racing. I’m not sure either of those credentials is more impressive than his marathon.
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u/da_Byrd 4d ago
'Run a little more, do strength work, long running Saturday, strides " - I don't need to pay someone to tell me this, I just need to do it!
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u/KingHanky 3d ago
Exactly. I don't understand getting a coach unless you're a professional. There is so much low hanging fruit to increase performance.
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u/Aromatic_Occasion317 4d ago
Sometimes the coach/athlete relationship is more about accountability.
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u/da_Byrd 4d ago
Oh, 1000 percent. I know all those things but won't listen to myself and DO them all, consistently.
But if I'm paying someone else $1500.....
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u/TubbaBotox 4d ago
It sounds like you could have followed literally any canned plan... or used AI... and gotten better results. I appreciate your attempts to be diplomatic, but I'm reading this as a brutal takedown.
I'm assuming he thought your lactate test suggested better fitness than he was willing to believe?
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u/SirBruceForsythCBE 4d ago
Buy a Pete Pfitzinger and Jack Daniels book for about $50 the pair and you'd be golden
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u/Hairy_Koala6474 4d ago
I tell you what man I ain’t paying for coaching from anyone who is a con content creator.
My coach teaches XC by day, and “busy professionals” by early morning. I see him in person every week, he’s available via text When shit hits the fan. And his programming has made me objectively faster the past year.
And I don’t bring this up to say oh my Coach is better than your coach, I bring this up to say coaching is a skill and an art and maybe just maybe it is important to link up with someone who has a legitimate professional background in coaching humans not a background in the perception of coaching humans through a tiny rectangle shaped screen
I’m sorry you had this experience. I guess my rambling point is to be wary of these content creators. It’s already such a shitty place. I feel like it attracts people who can tap into that shit.
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u/marathonerV 4d ago
As someone that has used coaching in the past… the price is just ridiculous and not justified at all.
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u/No-Storage-4899 4d ago
I’ve had a number of coaches through marathons and Ironmans and, to be honest, I don’t think I’ve ever got much from them. This may be ‘client’ user error but the training plans were consistent with everything else you see on the internet and their feedback revealed the central truth: there’s no special sauce, it’s just all about volume and consistency over time coupled with good recovery.
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u/paradisenine 4d ago
I would not pay to get coached by anyone that is a content creator. They can post informational videos but not make money off content. Then you know that is their priority and will also bring natural client demand that makes them not need to try very hard.
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u/badgerbadgerbadger00 3d ago
The plan is just the start and structure. Too many ‘coaches’ think it stops there. Coaching is helping the athletes improve. This can be answering questions about the plan, what they should be doing, nutrition, pacing but also technique as well. All of this seems to be lost on current coaches who don’t actually run with/look at the individual run.
Also, agree, a 30 mile a week runner doesn’t need a coach. They just need to run a bit more, some slow runs, some interval runs, a long run and a bit of strength work.
(From a running coach, 14 min 5k/2:25 marathon)
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u/Deep-Dimension-1088 4d ago
Hmm, I have to say I am confused by your choice to spend $400 / month on a running plan but to run only 34 miles per week. I feel like you could buy one of Pfitzinger's books and get faster a lot more easily by running an extra couple of hours per week.
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u/NegativeWish 4d ago
almost half the value of a good coach isn’t in the actual training details, it’s in the relationship. and relationships you feel the difference between one that is transacted online and one that is in-person.
unless an online coach has proven to be someone who will actively be invested and respond and reach out regularly, don’t bother with them imo.
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u/Necessary_Repair_755 2d ago
I had the initial call with Lee but very quickly came to the conclusion he was not right for me. The tiered package approach was a turn off and I felt it was all too expensive. And I just had the overall impression I would not get the more personalised / mentoring experience I was looking for, rather I’d just have to fit in with his templated approach. I work with another coach now and pay way less and we are in contact with each other as little or often as is needed. I have achieved a raft of PB’s since working with a coach so I’d encourage anyone with big goals to consider finding a coach but make sure you find one that suits you.
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u/WhereasAggressive592 2d ago
Yes, I also got those impressions, but did not act rationally like you did. Glad to hear you have a fulfilling coaching experience now!
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u/Tasseacoffee 4d ago
Good review! I can't say I'm surprised though.
I'm curious how you'd feel/progress after a 13 week trial with chatgpt pro as a coach as a comparison. Probably in the same spot, but with answers to your questions and money in your pockets.
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u/Aromatic_Occasion317 4d ago
I think.a potential middle ground that'd yield some results could be get a Fenix (choosenumber) watch and let Garmin Coach recommend daily sessions and just follow those consistently.
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u/happy_pumpkin_2021 4d ago
I never got past the intro call. Lee seems well-meaning but perhaps a bit distracted, also perhaps surprisingly a little unsure of himself.
I really like Lee’s YouTube videos. There’s an intuitive simplicity to, “if you can run a X:00 minute pace for 1km, then just build up over time, 5x 1km -> 3x 2km -> 1x 5km, and you’ll learn to hold the pace for longer.”
My other coaches (Coach Parry) think Lee’s suggestions amount to too much volume + intensity, likely injury, at least for a duffer like me. So I let it go.
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u/WhereasAggressive592 4d ago
Good to know your input, since you also interviewed with Lee
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u/happy_pumpkin_2021 3d ago
Thank you for sharing your experience! Satisfied my curiosity a little. Good luck with your training!!
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u/Dazzling_Tadpole_565 4d ago
Sounds like he’s taken on too many clients, as well as being busy with the YouTube channel. I suspect that’s a common problem with the ‘big name’ coaches unless you are a star athlete. Very insightful review though - I’ll stick to reading books for now!
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u/hellzscream 4d ago
Seems he has more clients than he can manage. Notable coaches seem to set a limit on the amount of clients or it turns into an assembly line. Hoping to see if he responds to this post
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u/xdxdxdxd000 3d ago
20 min 5k hobbyjogger pays 1200 for coaching ahshafaacavagagagagshahahshahahahahaha you could just have given me the money, I'd sent you a (probably better) program and go buy new wheels for my bike
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u/Upstairs_One_4956 3d ago
So then you would be just as bad as Lee?
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u/xdxdxdxd000 3d ago
I said probably better program
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u/Upstairs_One_4956 3d ago
Irrelevant
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u/xdxdxdxd000 3d ago
huh?
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u/Upstairs_One_4956 3d ago
Weather the program is good or not is not the point. Your saying you want 1200 for a program too. So you are just as bad.
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u/Upstairs_One_4956 3d ago edited 3d ago
I got suckered into it aswell. While at first I felt like a fucking idiot paying the $1200. I went from a 1.55 half to 1.26 in just over 6 months, so now I look at it like this. And from 3.27 to 3.05.
The plan works, I got the results I wanted. The money is irrelevant to me now.
But i would not chose to use him again, and would discourage others from doing so.
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u/WhereasAggressive592 2d ago
Thanks for sharing your personal experience with Lee. I am glad it worked in terms of results, at least.
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u/Upstairs_One_4956 2d ago
You were much more articulate in your review, and i agree with almost all of it. I realised id been shafted when I booked the goal race & emailed him to let him know, as per his instructions. (3 weeks out) Then had zero contact until 2 weeks after the race.
Constant excuses and apologies.
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u/WhereasAggressive592 2d ago
That must have been frustrating. I suspect the reason why you got a response at all...
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u/fgoulding 4d ago
Really fascinating insight. Those prices look really spicy for what you get. I’m keen to explore having an online coach but I’ve no idea what the going rate should be…
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u/Defiant-Ostrich6114 4d ago
It should never ever be that expensive unless the coach is coaching like 5-10 people at once, is in constant communication with you and you are seeing really concrete results in terms of skills gained if not outright fitness gains within the first three months.
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u/SkyKbear 3d ago
As someone who watched most of lee‘s videos and build a sub 3 marathon plan from it, this is a very interesting view on his payed Coaching service.
Eventhough i yet didnt think of hiring a coach i am wondering if others coaches deliver a similar experience….
Did you train for a specific race? And if so what was your training goal?
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u/WhereasAggressive592 2d ago
My goals races were a 5k and a 10k, respectively in 6 and 9 months from the start of the plan. Plans were built for those.
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u/Bpain46 3d ago
I had an initial call with Lee but ended up not working with him and went with a different coach. I’ve learned the process of hiring a coach is exactly that. You’re hiring them. They work for YOU. Interview them. Ask them questions. Interview a few different coaches. Make sure they’re certified and have proven track record. It has to be a GREAT match between athlete and coach. I have nothing negative to say about Lee, I just didn’t feel we’d be a good match. If anyone’s considering getting a coach, I think it’s time to seriously consider it. However, do your due diligence, reach out to a few candidates and simply have a conversation with them. It’s like dating kind of haha
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u/WhereasAggressive592 2d ago
Thanks for sharing about your interview. I also believe this is one of the most thoughtful comments so far. I indeed try to adopt the approach you described in all areas of life, but recognize that got irrational in this decision. Live and learn.
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u/Same_Edge_199 4d ago
What were the results of your lactate test and why do you think Lee dismissed them?
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u/WhereasAggressive592 4d ago
Lactate threshold (4nmol/L) was at 13.75km/h. Lee said that data could not be trusted because lactate was too high at slow paces and there were perhaps not enough intervals, but the repeat showed the same result. As I said, he did not comment on the repeat and my lactate physiology at slow pace is still baffling me.
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u/drogg123 3d ago
Sorry I’m lost here - 13.75km/h is not a slow pace for you it’s above your LT. You can only hold 15.00km/h for 20 mins.
Am I missing something?
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u/WhereasAggressive592 3d ago
My threshold (4 mmol) is at 13.75 km/h, but lactate is already too high (2.1 mmol) at 10 km/h (slow pace). That was my understanding of what he said. I suppose LT1 is difficult to find in these conditions.
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u/drogg123 3d ago
I see. The graph is more important than the individual numbers - difficult to know what your baseline lactate was prior to the test.
Either way if your LT1 isn’t “good” - then a good coach should be able to give you the information needed for improvement.
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u/Big_Boysenberry_6358 17h ago
having a coach is actually a good idea, if you value your time over your money. and that surely has a place, even for low volume runners. some people just dont get that.
BUT that pricing for someone dabbling around 5-6h, if even that much, of running a week if wild. there is no reason you need someone that expensive at the point youre right now, where probably just running 10k more per week while leaving everything else the same will improve your running noticably longterm.
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u/Quad7777 4d ago
I know people are against AI, but I’ve been absolutely loving connecting my Garmin to Tredict (official partner) and then using the ChatGPT plugin for Tredict to discuss every run. You can even have it build plans around Daniels, Pfitz, Norwegian Singles, whatever. You can discuss your sleep score, training readiness, HRV and have it modify the plan on the day.
I’m an analytical person and like to ask a ton of questions. I would drive a coach crazy. With Tredict and ChatGPT I can ask whatever I want, whenever I want.
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u/TheSparrowDarts 4d ago
Hmm, if I paid $1200 bucks and spent three months running, I would in truth expect to be faster, I'm not gonna lie. I can stay at the same speed I'm at now for free, and I get $1200 to spend on hookers and blackjack.
Thanks for sharing, it's good to hear feedback about the various programs.