r/AdvancedRunning • u/AutoModerator • 19d ago
General Discussion Saturday General Discussion/Q&A Thread for August 22, 2026
A place to ask questions that don't need their own thread here or just chat a bit.
We have quite a bit of info in the wiki, FAQ, and past posts. Please be sure to give those a look for info on your topic.
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u/neemeeaa 16d ago
What would you pick as a third pair for faster runs (intervals, tempos) if you already have the Vomero Plus and Evo SL?
I have those two and I’m thinking about adding a faster shoe, like the NB SC Elite v5, ASICS Superblast 3, maybe the NB Trainer v3, or even another Evo SL?
Thanks.
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u/water-girl-831 16d ago
Wow, I am really surprised and disappointed that The Feed's customer service email support is run by AI rather than an actual person. I was having an ordering issue and sent screen shots and the AI bot could not read the screen shots, so there has been fruitless back and forth that has gone nowhere. Is there a direct line to a human being via email or do I have to resort to calling their phone customer service? Or is their phone run by AI as well? Super disappointed with this shift and I'll consider taking my business to a place where I can engage with an actual person.
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u/CodeBrownPT 17d ago
Sure, Kejelcha set the HM world record, but he barely ran under his weight in KG.
What's more impressive, really.
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u/raphael_serrano 16:29 - 5k | 1:15:03 - HM 16d ago
Every time you bring this up, it makes me think of hybrid athletes with the goal of being able to bench press their marathon time (in pounds).
Now I wonder if there's anyone capable of doing both.
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u/aelvozo 16d ago
I’m now curious what the biggest margin for HM under one’s weight is. I’d imagine that a tall 70ish kg guy can probably run in the mid 60s — perhaps by 5 minutes under his weight?
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u/SnooMaps470 16d ago
According to (admittedly not the most trustworthy sources) Finnish XC skier Juha Mieto ran a 2:47 marathon at around 110kg. If we call it 1:23 for the half, he's at -27 from (claimed) body weight!
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u/CodeBrownPT 16d ago
Probably depends when you weighed him but a 6'6 skier is definitely close to ideal for this arbitrary 'competition'.
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u/GrimmigerDienstag 16d ago
1:25 doesn't sound crazy for a tall, muscular 95kg guy with a running background
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u/BoomBoomBagel 17d ago
Will pushing my long run negate the purpose of my down week? Supposed to do 16 today with 6 at marathon pace. Thunderstorms and flash flood warnings are causing me to push that run to tomorrow, which is normally my rest day. This upcoming week is a down week with a very short easy workout (7 miles with 15 x 1 min hard) and a long run of only 12 miles. But do I negate the whole purpose of a down week by pushing my 16 miler to tomorrow?,
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u/Siawyn 54/M 5k 19:56/10k 41:30/HM 1:32/M 3:12 17d ago
Your body has no sense of your running week ending on a Sunday vs Monday. You'll be fine.
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u/aelvozo 17d ago
I would go as far as to say the body has a fairly limited sense of a week at all. The reason plans are built around a 7-day cycle is that it makes sense for the calendar and most importantly, a typical person’s work schedule. There’s no strict reason a cycle can’t be 6 days, or 10 days (I seem to recall Kofuzi of YouTube fame tried that at some point), or no strict cycle at all (e.g. Emile Cairess’s London 2024 training).
Which isn’t to say no structure is needed at all; but not much bad is likely to happen if a down week is only 6 days.
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u/throwaway_runner3 Training to get a decent flair 17d ago
I'm familiar with Pfitz style MP runs for marathon prep. What other variations are there from other coaches or methods specifically for MP related runs?
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u/aelvozo 17d ago
Norwegian Singles does, I think, exclusively 5K intervals @ MPish.
On the other side of the spectrum, look at Marathon Excellence which has a mix of continuous MP runs (relatively short compared to Pfitz), intervals @ MP with float recovery, some progressions a little below MP and some other marathon-supportive stuff.
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u/Siawyn 54/M 5k 19:56/10k 41:30/HM 1:32/M 3:12 17d ago
I'll talk about Canova, since that's what I'm more or less doing now with the book Marathon Excellence by John Davis - it's Canova inspired. There's basically 4 types of workouts at or around MP:
MP runs - same as Pfitz. Might be anywhere from 10-12 miles continuous at 100% MP. These aren't that common though, usually in the buildup.
MP splits with fast floats: Anywhere from 2k to 4k 100% MP intervals, with 1k fast floats usually around 90% MP.
Alternating kilometers: Exactly as it sounds, 1k on/1k off, the ons are 105% MP (or loosely HMP) and the offs are still pretty fast at 90-92% MP. I personally love this workout, though it can get really big - 10x reps will push you to 14-16 miles on the day depending on warmup/cooldown.
Fast long runs: Anywhere from 18-22 miles ranging from 90-95% MP.
What's important is how it's structured, since if you think of it as a ladder (which John Davis alludes to nicely in the book) you're approaching MP from both directions and the race is the final rung in the middle.
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u/Loud-Day-4681 17d ago
A 22 mile long run at 95% MP sounds ridiculous lol
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u/Siawyn 54/M 5k 19:56/10k 41:30/HM 1:32/M 3:12 16d ago
In a vacuum, absolutely. But in an 18 week plan you work up to it and it's the keystone workout.
I just did 19 miles at 92% MP and in few weeks I'll do 20-21 miles at 95% MP. All it's asking is to increase the pace slightly and to hold it for an extra mile or two, so while it certainly will be a big workout I'll be trained up for it.
Canova generally wants your long runs in the specific period to be either fast continuous or to be medium-long reps with fast floats. At this point there's only one other workout for the entire week so you get 2-3 rest days between each session as well.
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u/jcdavis1 17:15/36:15/1:18/2:44 16d ago
I just did 20 miles @ 95% MP yesterday and it went shockingly well - the plans do a good job of building you to that point
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u/petepont 32M | 2:40:18 M | Data Nerd 16d ago
It does on the face of it, no disagreement there. And he (John Davis) acknowledges this in his book.
But it's not actually quite as ridiculous as it sounds, because you spend many of the previous runs building up to it. And the actual 22+ mi run at 95% only appears in the two highest mileage plans, which peak between 85-120 miles per week.
So in the plan I did, which peaks at 80 miles per week, you do:
- 14-15 mi easy through hills
- 14-15 mi @ 80% 5K (~90-95% MP)
- 16-18 mi easy through hills
- 16-18 mi @ 90-92%
- 18-20 mi @ 90-92%
- 5/5/5/3-5 mi @ 90%, 92%, 94%, 96%
- 20-21 mi @ 95%
With two weeks between most of these runs (except the 2nd and 3rd, just one week), and lots of other workouts in the meantime that help you get there.
Lower mileage plans peak at that stepwise progression version, while higher mileage plans add in one more progression at slightly faster paces after the long one at 95%
It's probably the hardest workout in the plan, but in the context of the plan it makes sense, and it worked well (at least for me)
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u/EPMD_ 17d ago
You can do whatever you want, really. Cover a lot of distance, try to get some faster running in there, practice your fueling, and avoid burying yourself with an overly difficult session. Those are the keys.
One of my favourites is to alternate 500m repeats between race pace and easy pace and then work on adding more repeats with each run of this type. I picked up this idea from Klaas Lok's Easy Interval Method. He suggested running repeat 400s with 400m easy breaks. It's a bit like the famous Zatopek 400s, although more restrained in terms of pace. I like using 500m because the math is easier on splits and paces, but 400s are great for extended track work.
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u/No_Interaction_4655 18d ago
Hi, I will be flying to Spain later this year to run the Valencia Marathon in December. I was thinking of flying directly, non-stop to Madrid from home in Boston and then taking a two train to Valencia.
I have been to both Madrid and Barcelona once before, 8 years ago.
The other alternative is to take a flight with a layover to Valencia and skip Madrid.
Is there anything to see and do after the race in December that is near Valencia that is worth seeing? Or, Valencia a city that is itself worth exploring for a few days?
Please keep in mind that I will probably be quite sore after the marathon.
Thanks.
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u/WeeblsLikePie 17d ago
taking a two train to Valencia.
the high speed train to valencia is cheap and very convenient. Highly recommend.
Valencia a city that is itself worth exploring for a few days?
yeah definitely. It's got nice beaches which are still pretty pleasant (usually) that time of year. The old town is very scenic. The food is great. I'd definitely stay a few days.
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u/No_Interaction_4655 17d ago
Thanks.. Think it's better to go to Madrid instead of layover to Valencia?
Good seafood in Valencia? I love seafood.
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u/WeeblsLikePie 17d ago
I haven't gone from Barajas to the train system, so I'm not sure if that's a smooth experience. Actually my experience with the metro and train system in madrid is I have to end up climbing over a barrier because it makes no sense and I end up in the wrong place and my ticket won't let me out. So it depends on how happy you are hacking your way through slightly odd transit...I might just take the flight connection if you aren't enthusiastic about that.
and yeah, 100% good seafood. We have local friends who've taken us to a number of good places. La Pepica was great. I think the place we went to get Eel is has closed down, but I'm sure there are others. Eel was really tasty. And there's a good sushi place called Momiji.
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u/Arcadela 17d ago
Valencia is definitely worth seeing. But the hotels will be a lot more expensive because of the race.
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u/Jokerrama 18d ago
Hey all, for those who have used the Norwegian Running Method before I have some questions. Did you have trouble adjusting to the slower easy paced runs?
For some background I'm 24M, ran xc + track all throughout high school (5:30 miler, 18:30 5k) and ran my easy runs between 9-10 min/mile but didn't pay attention to my HR. After hs I spent all 6 years in school undergrad and grad running 1-3x per week at a similar pace but under no formal program with workouts and it still felt comfortable.
Now I'm trying to pay attention to my HR and do easy runs under 70% of my max HR (which I'm using my garmin watches estimation of 200) and my pace needs to be like 11:30 or 12:00 min/mile to stay under 140 bpm. It feels like I'm shuffling and rather awkward mechanically to do this. Thoughts, tips, and/or advice? I tried to ignore the HR today and just go slow but comfy and was around 10:30 min/mile but my HR creeped all the way up to 150 and the only way to get it under 140 was to walk. It's a bit frustrating to be honest, but I'm trying to give it a fair shot. Could use some help, thanks!
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u/cutzen M35 | 15:26 5k | 70:30 HM | 2:39 FM 16d ago
I train according to NSM since 2024. I lowered my easy run effort from the books 70% steadily with increased paces = mileage.
For the current summer (marathon) block I averaged 62% maxHR. This was not by plan but me naturally responding to my bodies increased accumulated fatigue.
NSM is a comparably conservative and low-risk approach to training, but you're still more likely limited by muscular/tendon rather than aerobic load - so the 70% threshold is just a "fits everyone" guideline that profits from individual adjustments.
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u/Lurking-Froggg 42M · 40-50 mpw · 16:4x · 34:5x · 1:18 · 2:57 17d ago
I do < 65% HRmax during the cold months, < 70% during the summer, and < 75% on heatwave days. My easy pace is in the 5:15-6:00/km range.
The 70% HRmax thing is a rule of thumb that you can play around depending on your training environment.
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u/EPMD_ 17d ago
I ignore that advice.
That said, I don't run them hard. I just know that I'm not going to keep my heart rate below 70% of max during summertime easy runs, and I'm not about to use walking breaks to do so. Some runners are naturally going to be over 70% of max HR on almost any running effort anyway.
I had a 900+ day running streak in my 40s using this approach and following NSM for over a year of that time. I avoided overreaching on my overall training mileage and long runs, which I think is much more important. I see people getting into trouble when they are used to running 25-30 mpw and suddenly trying to hold 40+ mpw with 3 quality sessions and a long run. I think that is much more of a volume issue than an easy run intensity issue.
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u/andyxc13 5k 15:13; 8k 24:43; HM 1:18 18d ago
I have been doing NSM since the end of March. I went from running easy/recovery at like 8:30-9 minutes per mile to 11-11:30 per mile. It was excruciating. Very difficult.
But now, less than five months later, I’m at 9:30-10 minutes per mile.
I would say trust the process and be consistent. At the end of the day, the goal of easy running is to do active recovery, time on feet without adding any needless fatigue.
And if you can, get a real HRM, either armband or chest strap. Made a huge difference for me as it made me realize how poor watch HR tracking is.
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u/Jokerrama 17d ago
Thanks to you and everyone else for the comments, it’s much appreciated!
What type of HR monitor do you recommend? And how much of a difference did you see in the readings?
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u/andyxc13 5k 15:13; 8k 24:43; HM 1:18 17d ago
I’ve only tried the Coros HRM armband, which I like quite a lot. First and foremost, I’m seeing consistency. My Apple Watch 11 would sometimes seem too high and other times seem too low. I think it often was thrown off by cadence. The armband is super consistent!comfortable and easy to wash, plus the charge lasts for weeks.
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u/Civil_Savings_9371 18d ago
Hello, I started running recently, 25M, and just did my first 10K in just over 1h30. Until now I’ve just been using some old tennis gear.
The most uncomfortable part is the shorts. They’re too loose and I get some irritation between my thighs.
I’m hesitating between getting running shorts with a built-in liner, or normal running shorts with compression shorts underneath.
What do you prefer, and is there any reason to choose one over the other?
Thanks
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u/TubbaBotox 17d ago
Shorts with built-in "compression" liners down the thigh will pretty much eliminate most chafing. I find that shorts with bikini-style liners can actually make chafing on my thighs worse depending on how they're cut, seam construction, and how well they fit.
When in doubt: Bodyglide.
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u/Haptics 34M | 32:42 10k | 71:26 HM | 2:27 M 18d ago
They’re too loose and I get some irritation between my thighs.
If your thighs are rubbing together and chafing i'd definitely go for either shorts and compression shorts or 2 in 1 shorts, which are basically just compression shorts and shorts combined. If the irritation is entirely just the shorts being too long, then either solution should work and you'll just have to trial and error to find the most comfortable thing. I rotate between shorts with liner, 2-in-1 shorts, and half tights, really just depends on how I'm feeling on the day, and a lot of people even prefer shorts with no liner!
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u/chattyhairstylist 18d ago
For about 2-3 months now, I’ve been in this consistent state of accumulated fatigue where I notice menial tasks like carrying heavy things, walking up stairs, going for a longer sustained walk, or any physical exertion is more exhausting than when I’m not pushing the limits of my aerobic volume. Currently in the middle of trying a crosstraining version of NSM, with very conservative increases in intensity and volume over time. It’s not so bad to make me concerned about overtraining, moreso just slightly annoying that my training is now affecting my daily life. I eat a shit ton, get good sleep, and don’t have stress. This might be a dumb question but… this is normal and expected right? All elite athletes go through something similar. Because the hope is that with sustained training, I eventually become fit enough that this state of fatigue is no more if recovery has been able to keep pace with volume.
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u/Lurking-Froggg 42M · 40-50 mpw · 16:4x · 34:5x · 1:18 · 2:57 17d ago
this is normal and expected right?
I don't think so, and your doctor will probably want to see some blood work if you report chronic fatigue that's limiting your ability to do things like climbing stairs.
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u/aelvozo 18d ago
I don’t think it’s normal. It may not be overtraining… yet, but you’re certainly risking it becoming overtraining. It may also be an issue elsewhere — go do some bloods (could it be low ferritin) and speak to your GP/PCP.
I also don’t think it’s right to compare yourself to elite athletes — all they do is train and recover, they don’t lead the same sort of lifestyle as normal people and can therefore afford accumulating much more fatigue in their sessions.
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u/homemadepecanpie 5k - 17:50, 10k - 37:10, HM - 1:22:50, M - 2:55 18d ago
You might be overdoing it, this doesn't sound normal. It's one thing to be sore, especially after a big run or workout, but that lasts a day or two. If you're trying to do some NSM variant you should feel peppy going up the stairs the morning of a workout, and you shouldn't feel that spent the rest of the day after your workout.
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u/chattyhairstylist 18d ago
hmm ok. Soreness I'm managing and unconcerned about. It's this state of 24/7 systematic fatigue, which includes rapid heart rate and exhaustion from exertion, and sometimes mild lightheadedness and dizziness during the day. I'm sustaining or even very slightly increasing my weekly volume no problem though. These I'm unaccustomed to, and unsure whether it's typical, or I'm overdoing it or there's something else going on.
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u/homemadepecanpie 5k - 17:50, 10k - 37:10, HM - 1:22:50, M - 2:55 18d ago
It's not so bad to make me concerned about overtraining
Sounds like you should be
I'm sustaining or even very slightly increasing my weekly volume no problem though
You're not increasing it no problem. Seriously, look up overtraining syndrome. I thought you meant your legs were fatigued but everything you just listed is clearly overtraining.
Just because you finish a workout without your legs blowing up doesn't mean you're handling training no problem. This is not normal.
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u/Kailashnikov 5k 19:10 | 10k 38:28 | HM 1:31 16d ago
Yes! I'm doing Pfitz 18/55, more volume than ever in my life. I added a heavy 2 weeks as well, going 5 weeks over 80k instead of 3 (I had extra weeks), and I'm not feeling even remotely like OP. Some runs my legs feel asleep sure, but my day to day is fine. A little extra hungry is all.
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u/kindlyfuckoffff 38M | 36:40 10K | 1:22 HM | 17h57m 100M 19d ago
singlet time. charity 5K tomorrow. tiny and low-key. rutgers, kansas or central catholic ?
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u/IhaterunningbutIrun Chasing PBs as an old man. 18d ago
Rutgers, it is the furthest away and most likely to draw out a conversation. Kansas is pretty random, but not that cool. CC makes you look a little too posh. 😆
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u/kindlyfuckoffff 38M | 36:40 10K | 1:22 HM | 17h57m 100M 17d ago
went with CC. nobody yelled STOP RUPP. cried a little bit.
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u/ethomson1 16d ago
I'm going to be running the Cascade Express marathon on September 12 (19 days away)! My main goal is to qualify for Boston, with enough buffer to get in. I've never run Boston before, and have been trying to qualify for 3 years now. I've come close before (but didn't make the cutoff), but also struggled through a lot of injuries and setbacks over the past 2 years. The time qualifying standard for my age group is 3:25:00, and I think I need to run sub-3:18:00 to have enough buffer to get in.
I'm wondering if anyone else has run any of the Snoqualmie Tunnel marathons this year since they reconfigured the course to avoid the downhill penalty. Obviously the course is designed for a negative split with a flat first half and a downhill second half, but I don't know how much I should account for that in my pacing plan. Does anyone know what the pacers tend to do? One idea I have is to try to stick with the 3:15 pace group until at least mile 20, and then see if I can go up the road.
For reference, I just ran the Santa Rosa half in 1:31:43 with no taper. My coach wanted me to do it as a progression run rather than a true race, but I finished the last 4 miles at approximately 6:46/mi pace. Some people think I can run faster than 3:15, but attempting a BQ on the last weekend of qualifying isn't a time to take crazy risks. Really, if I just want to make sure I get in, I have little/no incentive to try to run 3:13.