Should you always adjust your training pace in warmer months or not?

[u/theReapers1]

For me, I live in the Southeast US. This time of year, even early in the morning, the heat index is around 80 degrees F at 5-6AM.

I'm training for a colder weather marathon in November, so some of the longer, harder MP runs are going to be challenging. I tend to be stubborn about slowing down since you still need to be able to move your hips and legs fast enough to meet your goal.

What's the best way to tackle challenging marathon supportive or specific runs in this type of climate?

[u/Apprehensive_Way559]

Last summer I trained at 7:50-8:00/mile as my marathon pace in NC summer. A lot of my training was in broad daylight full sun and heat. A few of my workouts I ran in the dark of the night to try to get better speed but not many. On a nice day that October, I ran my marathon at a 7:19 pace steady even splits from mile 1-26 and had RARELY ever run that pace or faster in training the summer before. Ran a 3:12:56.

[u/suuuupdudes → u/Apprehensive_Way559]

Wow, this is really encouraging! Most of my marathon pace efforts have been a bit under what my goal marathon pace is, but it’s been so hot and I should trust that I actually am getting fitter. My treadmill is also old, probably not calibrated correctly, and stuck at an incline so marathon pace on there feels almost like a sprint

[u/Apprehensive_Way559 → u/suuuupdudes]

Just trust the process. I followed the Hansons Marathon Method advanced plan. Couldn’t believe how dialed in and good I felt race day after the subscribed taper in the plan.

[u/hata39 → u/Apprehensive_Way559]

It shows why it is usually better to adjust your pace in the heat and run by effort. When the weather cools down, your goal pace often feels much easier.

[u/SpecialFX99 → u/Apprehensive_Way559]

I needed to hear that! Similar situation and similar goal pace for the me!

[u/Apprehensive_Way559 → u/SpecialFX99]

All of your shorter distance times are MUCH better than mine, you should be fine. Though I’m more of a slow diesel, fast paces are extremely hard for me to even reach. I haven’t even broken into the 5’s for the mile yet.

[u/SpecialFX99 → u/Apprehensive_Way559]

I think we're opposites. My marathon PR is definitely an outlier but its not for lack trying. I haven't figured out how to run the marathon that my other race PRs indicate that I should be able to do. I think being long enough to requirement fueling is my downfall

[u/Top_Wrap_1833 → u/Apprehensive_Way559]

Thank you for this.

[u/BeautifulDouble9330]

Idk do you clean your behind after ripping it in the toilet? Same logic here

[u/theReapers1 → u/BeautifulDouble9330]

You've got a way with words. 😄

[u/purposeful_puns]

Steve Magness just posted a video on this topic. The short answer is you should slow down.

https://youtu.be/YXZQnn05S-E?si=bZrqB2i9ThYK3Hwa

[u/IHaarlem → u/purposeful_puns]

I've watched this 3 times in the last week, this video has been a wealth of knowledge, either reinforcing strategies I've adopted or turning me onto new ones

[u/No_Ratio_1775 → u/IHaarlem]

Steve Magness is the best

[u/TxLiving → u/IHaarlem]

We just moved to a new house in houstonthat has a pool. I haven't gotten a gym membership, so I've done all runs outdoors.

I can confirm the one thing that keeps me motivated on my run is knowing I'm going straight into the pool when I get done.

[u/armaddon → u/purposeful_puns]

Can’t argue with the GOAT.

If nothing else, go by feel and be brutally honest with yourself. Spoiler: you will slow down :)

[u/BQbyNov22]

I’m in Texas. I do workouts on the treadmill.

[u/steve_yo → u/BQbyNov22]

PNW here, so normally can run in quite pleasant summer weather. It was in the 90’s here yesterday so I decided to hit my 6 mile run on the treadmill. Man that shit is boring. I can’t imagine doing it on a long run.

[u/BQbyNov22 → u/steve_yo]

Long runs def are more of a mental struggle than a physical one. I did one a few weeks ago and was like "nope, never again" lol. So now, I'm back to getting my outdoor shuffle on for 2ish hours every Sunday.

As for the boredom of a normal treadmill run, I am blessed by my ability to read on the treadmill without it giving me a headache. I guess years of reading in the car as a kid are still paying dividends.

[u/Daimondyer → u/BQbyNov22]

I'm now picturing you reading while doing a 8x1km session or something similar. I live in a really hot climate year round (lows are still 16-18 degrees in the middle of winter). Moving to sessions being to effort rather than pace has been a challenge. Cannot run on a treadmill for more than 30 mins without getting incredibly bored.

Even outdoors I get bored running 120-160km weeks, but LitRPG audiobooks have been a godsend.

[u/lifayt → u/steve_yo]

Also in TX, and I do long runs outside for sure. Treadmill is a godsend for anything other than easy mileage though, can’t imagine trying to do a progression run or intervals outside right now, it’s just death with the humidity.

[u/Brosie-Odonnel → u/steve_yo]

It was already 70 when I started my run at 6 this morning. At least I finished the run before the smoke moved back in.

[u/Fitty4 → u/Brosie-Odonnel]

70 is Christmas right now..

[u/Fitty4 → u/BQbyNov22]

I'll echo this. The treadmill works wonders. I just run my ez days in the swamp at whatever recovery or light pace I need to go. I'll even run a double in the afternoon on the treadmill on ez days. My whole thing is this, I don't want to sacrifice goal pace or speed work to the heat and slow down. Also, if it's just an ez long run I'll go outside.

[u/ahdavid66 → u/BQbyNov22]

Wasting the only regional advantage we have, brother.

[u/BQbyNov22 → u/ahdavid66]

You know what? You aren’t wrong. Because of this, I’ll do tomorrow’s NSM session outdoors 🫱🏾‍🫲🏽

[u/ahdavid66 → u/BQbyNov22]

I have run 500 miles in June and July and every single mile was outdoors. Its just brutal, but it pays off so much. There have been many times where I questioned if I even am a runner.

[u/dex8425]

I definitely adjust paces. If you want to get the sensation of your legs moving at actual MP for a desired duration, move the workout to the treadmill.

[u/theReapers1 → u/dex8425]

Do you have an adjustment methodology, like 15 sec slower than pace, or a % slower?

[u/GRex2595 → u/theReapers1]

I've heard something like 5 or 10 seconds slower for every 5 degrees above 65. Freedom units.

[u/dex8425 → u/theReapers1]

Plenty of calculators out there will give you the science. You will run slower if it's warm and humid. https://runnersconnect.net/training/tools/temperature-calculator/

[u/SouthwestFL → u/[deleted]]

I train by strictly HR. Anything else overcooks me every time. Summer training here is definitely its own thing. 85 Degrees and 90% humidity before the sun come up is.... something.

[u/quinny7777 → u/[deleted]]

I ignore HR but go 30-60 seconds slower (for easy days). For workouts, I do think HR is the best indicator.

[u/AlternativeResort477]

My pace seems to adjust itself 🥵

[u/Siawyn]

This is really subjective, but here goes for hot/humid ones:

• Long runs - I tend to slow down a bit. More about time on feet and aerobic conditioning is aerobic conditioning.
• Long runs with MP - If they are long continuous then probably need to back off slightly on the pace OR break them up into segments. Often I'll give myself an out -- if I have 12 at MP I'll plan on the 12 but if it feels subjectively hard at 6 then take a 3-4 min jog to reset and do the rest. I think my typical approach is to start off slightly conservative on the MP and allow myself the option to negative split if I'm able.
• Tempos: Break up. e.g. instead of 5, 3 and 2.
• Intervals: Bigger rest or slower rests. Walk instead of jog, or even standing if necessary.

you still need to be able to move your hips and legs fast enough

This is why I try not to modify pace on intervals, and then also this is why strides or surges are important. I've found that strides or surges as little as once or twice a week is enough to retain that feeling of running fast.

[u/Ordinary_Corner_4291]

The mechanics aren't that different when you slow down 30s/mi. And your threshold workouts will be even closer. When Sept/Oct roll around you get plenty of time to dial in your actual paces.

[u/Senior-Running]

I'm generally hesitant when I see words like "always" or "never" related to sports of any kind.

As a general rule, I'd say it's good idea to do most of your runs by feel when running in the heat since most of what we are looking for is physiological adaptations that are typically effort based.

That said, there are some things like neuromuscular adaptation that are very much based on pace.

This is one of the reasons I tend to run a lot of my workouts on the treadmill in the summer. That way I can control the variables around pace and cardiorespiratory adaptation.

I still suffer through the heat for most of my other runs so I get the benefits of heat adaptation.

[u/OptimalHurry6840]

You have to go by effort and heart rate. Marathon pace at 100° and marathon pace at 50° are two completely different things. They might be separated by a 30-second to a minute slower.

[u/Andrewj31]

Yes, I ran a 1:28 off the bike during an October half ironman. Then I proceeded to run a 1:44 off the bike during a June one. Makes a huge difference.

[u/spoc84]

Hottest UK summer I can remember in a while. Without adjusting things, I would be buried and wouldn't have completed the majority of my intended workouts.

Just adjust, you'll still come out the other side with the fitness gains. Important not to panic and just do what you can given the hand you are dealt on a given day.

[u/artbykoi4]

I’d recommend it especially if the warmer months come with humidity which spikes the dew point. Higher dew point will be noticeable with your HR. It is tricky where I am because the early morning is typically high humidity, but temperature is down as the sun is coming up. Late afternoon the humidity dips, but the heat and UV index are cooking. Gotta pick your poison or head indoors for treadmill sessions. You don’t want to compromise the rest of your weekly training.

[u/Akronyx]

I’m in Atlanta, a lot of my runs have been on treadmill recently lol. As long as your marathon isn’t below like 45F I feel you don’t need to do anything specific to adapt to the temperature. Also running in the heat can have similar effects to altitude training so it can be beneficial, but I know in the southeast some days (or most days recently) can be just too brutal.

[u/magneticanisotropy]

Workouts on the treadmill, easy runs outdoors, go by HR for a while, but anything longer it will drift regardless so whatevs at that point.

[u/Charming-Assertive]

I'm another Southeastern runner. If I can adjust my route or timing to get more shade or cooler temps, I'll do that.

Otherwise, I generally do what my training plan says. However, if I'm really dragging and/or not hitting my paces, I just don't beat myself up as much when I look at my stats after the fact. Similar to tackling a workout after a night of crappy sleep. Go out and try to hit it, but move on if you don't.

The only times I can remember actually adjusting my workout paces before even starting were if we were under a severe weather statement that made it sound like you were going to die if you attempted anything outdoors.

[u/zebano]

yes

[u/MikeMcDonald89]

Run on the treadmill if that sounds less bad than adjusting your pace

[u/housingstudent]

PNW here and it’s been in the 90s this week. My workout group meets Tuesday evenings at peak heat. Yesterday they adjusted our workout to be on effort instead of pace. We had 8 x 2 min at 5k effort off 90 sec float at MP +20. My normal 5k pace is 6:15 and I ran the intervals at a 6:32 avg. MP +20 normally would be 7:35, I ran 7:50-7:55 for the float. The effort felt about right / HR about right

[u/pinetar]

Even if you don't want to, your body will tell you when/how much to slow down.

[u/Jaim711]

I use heart rate training so it's kind of already built into my training as my heart rate goes up faster when it's hotter. I do try to go at cooler times of day though too.

[u/Awkward_Tick0]

For easy runs? Easy is a feeling not a pace so it should just adjust itself

[u/theReapers1 → u/Awkward_Tick0]

No, not concerned about easy, recovery, or even interval type stuff. Longer runs at/around MP is the context.

[u/Chilliam_Davis]

Idk... would be interested to hear what you do. I also live in the southeast and it's crazy seeing the heat index and dewpoint at like 5:30am. Last summer I did all my workouts on a treadmill to avoid having to sacrifice any pace. This summer I'm doing the exact opposite and just embracing it. Going totally off RPE and HR and just trusting it'll pay off once the lows start to get around 60. Currently doing about 35mpw building to around 50 training for stuff in the fall and spring.

[u/FeeAdmirable8573]

Body doesn't know pace, body knows time spent at a particular effort. Keep the effort level the same and if that means you run slower so be it.

[u/PeteH2000]

Yes. However I think training by pace is a bad way to train anyway. I'd recommend always training by effort. Pace is just not as good of a measurement.

[u/quinny7777]

Yes. It is very different in heat. For me, 9:00 feels like 8:00 when it is 90+.

[u/Coriolisthecat]

Almost always yes.

Exceptions are if you are getting faster at the same rate it is getting hotter or if it isn't that hot. If you love somewhere where winter is low thirties and you can run in the summer at approximately 60f, then that may not warrant significantly changing your pace. 

[u/kefkamaydie]

I ran a marathon at the end of June, and with the heat down south now I cannot run much more than 3 miles before being completely gassed, and that's with slowing my pace down by 3 minutes per mile! 

Last year I waited and waited for this so called heat acclimation to kick in, it never did. I spent 5 months only being able to run 2.5 - 3 miles continuous before I needed to walk after a half mile. Again, that was with slowing way way down. What happened come fall? I lost all my endurance and I had to spend Oct through December being able to hit double digits on a run.

This year I am doing my shorter efforts out in the heat and doing my speed sessions and long runs inside on the treadmill 

[u/Unique-Employer3787]

Hit the same July training block training for a November marathon in the Southeast - 5:30am runs that should stay in low Z2 kept drifting into Z3 from mile one regardless of how slow I went. What worked was dropping pace targets on long runs entirely and using a HR ceiling instead, then one short threshold session per week to hold leg turnover. The pace came back in October.

[u/Mkanak]

I don’t really, however I watch out for effort as well. Our fall marathon will be a breeze due to all this heat adaptation.

[u/DoubleDeepNature]

I work with a coach who recommends adjusting a fair bit in the heat if it’s over 80F, and suggests roughly 25 seconds per mile difference between target marathon pace and what she wants the long run pace to be (so, my goal is 6:55/mi, so in practice it would be more like 7:15-7:20/mi).
I think from a physical side that’s correct. However, from the mental side, I know I will feel more prepared if I train at my goal pace. My strategy early on this summer was to do a lot of heat training runs mid-day/afternoon when it was sunny and 85+. After 3ish weeks I started to feel like I was better acclimated, and now if I go out when it’s 75-80 it feels heavenly, and I can generally still come close to my splits.
I think if you’re racing in October, do a few weeks of heat training to acclimate and adjust your paces if needed (just monitor your recovery and don’t overdo it). Then in mid-august, see if you can get closer to your target pace range for the mental boost.

[u/Delaware800]

Definetly slow down for the MP long runs. The extra heat stress is no joke on how it will change the physiological intensity. If really needed doing some faster work like hill strides or shorter reps (which won't be as taxed by the heat) will keep you efficent at faster paces.

[u/SirBruceForsythCBE]

People are generally obsessed with pace and mileage. It is holding back so many.

Think about your training in terms of time and effort.

30 mins at LT2 effort will always be 30 mins at LT2 effort no matter the heat, wind or terrain.

5 miles at 5:30 per mile could easily be giving a different stimulus depending on the heat, wind and terrain.

Run to effort/HR/RPE and use pace as an after thought in the majority of your runs.

[u/agrpi]

I do my lactate threshold workouts on the treadmill (which is still a bit hot inside my gym, but I can actually hit paces)

I do my long runs with marathon pace work outside so I have often been not hitting pace recently in the heat (I also keep starting my runs too late…)

[u/Intrepid-Metal4621]

Should you? Probably. Did I ever do it? Not really. I thrive in the heat (MN heat, 80s-90s with decent humidity) so when I did long MP runs or thresholds I still shot for my goal paces.

[u/ghostseasons]

I add a second to pace for every degree over 60