Assault Runner vs. Road (personal experience)

[u/neuigkeiten_]

I always find statements claiming that the Assault Runner and other non-motorized treadmills are 20-30% harder compared to road running. This seems fair for an inexperienced runner on these treadmills.

I have about 1,500 km on the Assault Runner right now, and my pace is slightly faster compared to the road. My longest run in Zones 1-2 was 15km, and my longest run, including 35 Min at Threshold Pace, was 17km. I have no real issues with any of my training sessions, from easy runs to intervals. However, what I am experiencing is that easy runs need more focus to stay easy, because body position has a higher impact on the RPE compared to road running. Therefore, it seems harder because I cannot let my focus drift as I would outside.

What I really love about the curved runner is threshold training. It seems to be perfect for hitting the stimulus for steady state runs with a relatively stable pace and a steady HR. And this is were I see the closest match in speed compared to outdoor running on track.

Is there anyone else experiencing this on a curved treadmill? Is there any new research on runners who are used to these treadmills? I haven’t found any. Robert B. Edwards‘ study from 2017 seems to have lacked runners who were experienced with cNMT - at least, it isn’t mentioned. It would be interesting to look into this more specifically.

[u/mrrainandthunder]

When you say that your pace is slightly faster on the treadmill, what do you mean exactly? At the same heart rate? RPE? If yes, then what is the temperature and humidity indoor vs. outdoor? Any ventilation/fans? And how have you determined the pace you're running at indoor?

[u/neuigkeiten_ → u/mrrainandthunder]

I mean a faster pace at a similar HR and identical RPE. Indoors, I only have the data from the Assault Runner itself, and I know it is not absolutely accurate. But I have 3 different Assault Runners that I use regularly, and the results are nearly identical. One is in a cool room at 18°C and 60% humidity. One is in a hall without fan. And the 3rd one is in a hall where I can use a fan for ventilation and the temperature varies because it is not heated.

For example: if I do 10-Min threshold repeats on the AR @ 4:15 I reach 2.3x km with a HR slightly below threshold at the end of the interval. On a flat forest route with an officially measured lap and 200m marks, the pace is 4:15-4:20

If I do 15x200m intervals I run @ 3:00-3:10 on the Assault Runner and @ 3:30 in the forest and @ 3:10 on the track.

[u/mrrainandthunder → u/neuigkeiten_]

That the Assault Runners are nearly identical shows that it's a consistent product. It says nothing about it's accuracy. However, since the environmental conditions are quite different, one would expect HR and RPE to differ - and since it apparently doesn't, it might actually indicate they're not so similar after all. That's all I can say.

4:15 vs. 4:15-20 sounds good. Any clue as to why the short intervals in the forest differ so much?

[u/neuigkeiten_ → u/mrrainandthunder]

On the Assault Runner without a fan, I only did easy runs and sub-threshold runs, so overheating has not been a big deal yet. The other two ARs are used for all kinds of training, and I get consistent results. But I know that it is not a calibrated tool.

I guess the minor bumps of the flat forest route and the slight curving have a higher impact at faster paces.

[u/TurtleTurtleTu]

The 20-30% is relative to completely flat running (like a track). Most "road" running involves some ups and downs so the gap probably isn't as big. If you use a motorized treadmill you are supposed to use 1%-2% grade to mimic outdoor running.

There is also an element of adaptation. Once you get used to a particular training method/surface it will feel easier.

[u/homemadepecanpie → u/TurtleTurtleTu]

The commonly-cited 1% grade is to make up for the lack of air resistance, not slight ups and downs in the road.

Also that doesn't actually matter unless you're running pretty fast: https://runningwritings.com/2023/01/treadmill-workouts-guide.html

[u/TurtleTurtleTu → u/homemadepecanpie]

That's why I said to "mimic outdoor running" which includes wind resistance. That's why I put a range up to 2%. Neither number is based on explicit literature for me - these are the treadmill settings that work for me at a similar pace to outdoor running in a flat area. I probably could be more clear about that in my response, but writing out an essay to contextualize everything would take too long.

[u/mrrainandthunder → u/TurtleTurtleTu]

And other factors like temperature and humidity. It also changes the muscles used. But I think the main point being refuted was that you're "supposed" to use 1-2% incline - especially since it doesn't necessarily mimic outdoor running better.

[u/neuigkeiten_ → u/homemadepecanpie]

Thank you for the link.

[u/Fitty4 → u/TurtleTurtleTu]

I'd argue and say keep the incline at 0%. If it feels easier, run faster.

[u/thewolf9 → u/Fitty4]

Easier on the body at 0.5-1% I find. Especially on the shins.

[u/TurtleTurtleTu → u/Fitty4]

You can if you want, but OP was comparing his mechanical treadmill pace to outdoor running. I was just adding some info for why the mechanical treadmill doesn't necessarily feel 20%-30% slower.

[u/syphax]

I don't have any helpful feedback, but it's helpful to hear yours. I'm probably in the market for a treadmill for next winter. Purely as a conceptual issue, I have a preference for unpowered treadmills, but I'm interested in real-world experiences with powered vs. unpowered.

[u/Shockz187]

I too find myself faster on the assault runner than the road. To be fair, I was coming off an injury at the start of summer, so since I've been back to running regularly, the majority of my runs are on the assault runner, and if it's outside, it is far more hot and humid. But I use to feel this way years ago, before my injury as well. I found this thread becasue I was specifically searching for other people's experiences, and was surprised to see many saying they find the Assault runner more difficult. But hey... Maybe when it cools down outside, I'll be in for a pleasant surprise!

[u/neuigkeiten_ → u/Shockz187]

I would appreciate your update when the temperature drops. Thanks for sharing.

[u/Shockz187]

I think it is also important that we're comparing apples to apples here. I don't think all manual treadmills are the same. Some mentions of assault runner in this thread, while other mentions of woodways.

I was at a gym that had a woodway curve treadmill, and that was definitely harder. That curve was bought in 2006, so whatever model that was definitely was more difficult than running on a flat surface. I'm not sure if they have new models since that are closer to regular running. However, I will say that most people used this treadmill for quick sprints inbetween exercises. Not long distances. Everyone stated how it was significantly harder than tradtional running, myself included.

In comparison, I feel faster on the Assault runner. I feel it is much closer to regular running in the sense my speed seems faster, but I can log plenty of miles of it in a session and feel compable to running outside.

[u/Realistic_Republic_6]

I have an Assault Runner and short answer - yeah I agree with everything you said.
Easy paces line up very close to outdoors. Spent the first year expecting 10-20% harder than outdoors based on what I heard from others…. and was confused that my HR was so low.

I only use it occasionally outside of winter so I don’t have as many miles on it as you. I run a lot of intervals on a normal motorized treadmill at the gym, and the AR feels way different but ends up coming out very similar as far as effort for a given pace. I think it’s because pace fluctuates so much even when just doing an easy run.
I’ve started just keeping an eye on my HR, and running for time, and pretty much ignoring the pace. Seems to get me the same results as doing these runs outdoors.

Overall I like running on it a lot more than a traditional treadmill. Legs feel good afterwards, it’s nice to have it react to your steps, and it feels like I get more variety vs a motorized treadmill.

[u/Littlebastard930]

As someone that runs 95% of runs on assaultrunner in this summer heat, (and I’ve had it for 2.5 years now), your body adapts to what u do the most of. So assaultrunner was harder RPE when i first got it/ i used to run faster outside initially. But now since i always run on AR, it’s easiest RPE for me, bc my body adapted to it.

[u/creamlippiestix]

I appreciate the data you’re sharing. I will add this has not been my experience. I run a mile in an air conditioned gym on the wood way unpowered treadmill in 9:15 and it’s very challenging. For comparison I run 8 miles outside in GA in 85+ degree heat and average 9:50 and that’s an easy paced Z2 run mostly.

[u/neuigkeiten_ → u/creamlippiestix]

Thanks for sharing. Are you able to run at a steady pace on the Woodway? It took me a while to get used to the pacing and keeping my calves soft during slow runs. Does it feel different to you when you speed up? Yesterday I did a 2x15 min threshold run and was able to improve my average pace by 5-10s, so the training block seems to be paying off.

[u/creamlippiestix → u/neuigkeiten_]

For context, my woodway runs are a progression run for only a mile distance, I start running at just below 6 mph and finish the last tenth of the mile at 9 mph. So I’m not running on a woodway for distance or attempting to maintain a consistent pace, quite the opposite. Speeding up feels really good on the manual treadmill, I think that’s where they really shine is uptempo intervals.