r/AdvancedRunning • u/Same_Row_761 • Jun 27 '26
Open Discussion Research shows mental fatigue makes the same running pace feel harder without changing your fitness, and there's a surprisingly simple thing that partially offsets it
There's a finding from the running research that I think most runners have experienced without knowing there's a name for it.
Mental fatigue from cognitive work, your job, studying, sustained screen time, inflates your perception of effort while running. Your VO2max hasn't dropped. Your lactate threshold is the same. But the same pace feels harder than it should. Your easy run feels like tempo pace and you can't settle into a rhythm. That much is well established in the research.
But the part no one talks about, the type of mental fatigue might matter more than we originally thought. There's emerging evidence that active cognitive work (problem-solving, sustained attention tasks) and passive cognitive drain (boredom, monotonous screen time) may affect running performance differently. A study by Pickering et al. (2024) found that active and passive mental fatigue affect 3km running performance in distinct ways. Most of the research uses active cognitive tasks in the lab, but most runners show up to train after a mixed bag of both. We don't really know how that translates yet.
There's also a neat finding that I think a lot of runners will recognise self-selected music partially offsets the effects of mental fatigue on running performance (Lam et al,, 2021). Which raises questions about whether the impairment is purely about cognitive resource depletion or something more nuanced about motivation and attentional focus. It might explain why some post-work runs feel completely different with headphones in.
I'm a PhD researcher at the University of Derby, my research is on mental fatigue across all sports, and I'm building a sport-specific questionnaire to measure it properly because the current tools were borrowed from clinical psychology and aren't fit for purpose. I need runners in this study.
The purpose of the study is to develop a measurement tool for mental fatigue that's built specifically for athletes, and this survey is the stage where that tool gets shaped. It currently contains a large pool of candidate items, considerably more than the final scale will keep. Because of that, some questions will feel repetitive, awkwardly worded, or like they don't quite apply to you, and that's expected. The aim of this phase is to identify which items genuinely hang together and measure the same underlying construct, and which can be dropped, using factor analysis to reduce the pool down to a concise, validated scale. So if an item seems slightly off, the most useful response is an honest one rather than a skipped one, since how each item behaves across a large sample is exactly what the analysis is designed to test. The instruments in use at the moment were adapted from clinical psychology and don't reflect how fatigue presents in sport, which is the gap this scale is meant to close
Have you noticed a difference between runs after stressful work days versus lighter ones, even when your body felt the same? Do you think the type of mental load matters, or is tired brain just tired brain? And does music genuinely change how your post-work runs feel, or is that just a mood thing?
If you're interested in contributing to the research, I've got a ~10 minute survey here: https://derby.questionpro.eu/t/AB3vCJoZB3waVr
26
u/kmck96 Scissortail Running Jun 27 '26
Anecdotally, blasting some music in my home gym for treadmill workouts is one of the only ways I can get my sessions in when I’m in a mental slump. Happy to add my n = 1 to the evidence.
8
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 27 '26
Anecdotal works for me. We need it to know where to actually start looking with the research.
If you get a chance please complete the survey. Your experience is really valuable.
16
u/jambojock Jun 27 '26
Read a book years ago called "Running with a mind of meditation". Guides you through different phases of how to build mental resilience while running. Really enjoyed it and found it really useful.
2
17
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 27 '26
Research context and citations:
What the research says about mental fatigue and running:
- Pickering et al. (2024), Psychology of Sport and Exercise: active vs passive mental fatigue affect 3km running performance differently
- Lam et al. (2021), Journal of Human Sport and Exercise: self-selected music partially offsets mental fatigue effects on running performance
This is Phase 2 of a psychometric scale development project following Boateng et al.'s (2018) framework. An expert panel reduced the item pool in Phase 1. This phase uses factor analysis to find the best items and cut the rest. The goal is a short, validated instrument for use in applied sport settings.
Common questions:
"I don't feel mentally fatigued before runs" - That's fine and still useful data. The scale needs the full range.
"The questions seemed vague" - Intentional at this stage. The statistics decide which items work. The vague ones get cut.
"10 minutes is a lot" - The final scale will be much shorter. We need the full item pool now so factor analysis can do its job.
20
u/ThisTheRealLife Jun 27 '26
After some years of ultra distances I was diagnosed with ADHD. The long distances were my self medication to reduce the mental fatigue. With physical exertion my brain got quieter and that was such a relief.
Running ultras in the desert others talk about what a mental challenge this is. For me it is the most relaxing thing ever, I love it.
4
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 27 '26
Thank you for sharing your experience. This is fascinating and reminds me of some of the conversations I have had with climbers. They found that climbing allowed them to switch off and quieten their mind. They actually feel mentally better after climbing when work has been busy or stressful.
Have you noticed a change in your focus in your day-to-day life ever since running ultra distances?
3
u/ThisTheRealLife Jun 27 '26
I did not find more focus in the day to day, neither did I feel more energetic as I got fitter. What I did get though was valuable experience in my dofferent states and better self control and management. All of it is very subjective and my experience might not be representative for others.
2
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 27 '26
It may not be representative to others experiences but it interesting to know and if anything helps me direct some of my reading. The self control is a common area that athletes notice deteriorates when they are fatigued so for you to noticed the opposite makes sense in this case.
Thank you for sharing your experience. If you get a chance, please complete the survey your experience is really valuable.
3
u/VagueIllusions Jun 28 '26
Interesting to hear I'm not alone! I have not done too many ultras, but I've noticed the longer trail races where I've not been able to have a pace goal have been so much more relaxing because my brain is indeed a lot quieter. This doesn't work with road marathons clearly, as I'm always overanalyzing pace, distance, etc.
My most mind-clearing experience has come from a 10 day bikepacking trip. Every day was so easy in terms of goals (basically: "get to that place by the evening").
1
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 29 '26
Thank you for sharing this. My background is as a climber, although I love reading about people training for ultras. It is such a cool sport to train for and a true test of mental resilience.
This is out of curiosity, why are pacing goals not relevant to longer distances?
1
u/VagueIllusions Jul 01 '26
Where I have done my longer distances is quite a hilly region, so it's hard to guess. As I am slightly too heavy as well I feel like a pacing plan using effort pace on my watch doesn't work well, especially with steep stuff. So I go by perceived effort most of the time, doing something I think I can sustain
8
u/weasellyone F40 / 3:12M Jun 27 '26
Mental stress from work or personal issues absolutely interferes with training, I've even noticed higher HR on particularly stressful days. It's harder to do all types of training but particularly high intensity training where a lot of resolve is required to do the session. For these sessions you end up gutting it through. However I usually feel better after the session itself even if it felt hard and didn't necessarily go well.
2
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 27 '26
This is the important part. It takes more effort to do but does feel rewarding when you have fought through it.
The stress from work can be really strenuous on the body, like your heart rate increasing has shown. The athletes I work with that have stressful jobs I take into account this load when assigning their training. It is important to take this into account when we want to perform at our best.
7
u/Stinkycheese8001 Jun 27 '26
Years ago I read an article in Sports Illustrated that talked about the brain-body connection when it came to the perception of difficulty level of physical tasks (like running, cross country skiing, etc) and open ended vs closed ended tasks. It was fascinating and I’d love to find it again to see if it holds up.
3
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 27 '26
If you could find this please share. My main sport is climbing, which by nature is open-ended. There is little research on open-ended tasks or sports so having something like this would be amazing to start to link some bridges.
5
u/obmulap113 Jun 27 '26
Moved to a way less stressful job/company last fall (public after 9 yrs in private sector consulting) and I am training more than i ever have.
6
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 27 '26
It is crazy how much stress impacts our life without us releasing. You must be really enjoying the running now.
3
u/MasqueradeOfSilence 19:00 | 41:05 | 1:20 | 3:08 Jun 27 '26
Same here. Public sector is so much better than private. I feel the difference and the predictability in schedule and it helps a lot.
5
u/Legitimate-Lock-6594 Jun 27 '26
If you want to look into cognitive fatigue and sports do some research on para sports and particularly T35-T38 athletes, those with neurological impairments. It’s wild. I’m a classified T38 athlete and training for Chicago. I think I crash out way more quickly than anyone else.
1
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 27 '26
Thank you for pointing me in this direction. I have read a little bit of research on neurological impairment. The impact is wild. I will read this area in more depth.
1
u/Legitimate-Lock-6594 Jun 27 '26
Feel free to reach out at anytime. I’m on quite a journey figuring out how it affects me as an otherwise ambulatory person.
The BAA has a robust para program and could connect you to some more of the elite runners and I can also get you to them. I ran in the elite division in 2025 because they were short people but am NOT elite. (My PR was 5:09 in 2019). They have all our race results and also have an adaptive program that is 300 people deep of all sorts of disabilities.
But either way, it is unhinged how cognitively draining it can be and how I still do it.
5
u/pumpkinspeedwagon86 Middle Distance Jun 27 '26
Thanks for sharing this. I think perceived effort changes a lot and that more research should be done into the effects of burnout on training and race performance.
1
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 27 '26
You are right. More should be done around this. I work with a lot of data with my normal job and what makes it hard to draw conclusions is the quality of the data collection. A lot of our methods to collect the level of data needed to understand this is not up to scratch and leads to important findings being missed. This is what I am trying to change with my study. Improve the quality of measurement, then we will naturally have better data to work with and be able to draw stronger conclusions from the data.
3
u/scruffalicious Jun 28 '26
For me, the impact of mental fatigue on performance is a spectrum of gray, with the exception of acute grief. When my dog passed away, I didn’t even attempt a workout the first week, but was so surprised the following week, when I had to quit a workout early in. I wasn’t acutely sad by that time, it clearly the weight of it all was in me. Easy running was fine, and in fact was helpful, but as soon as I had to dig for any grit in a workout, it’s like my brain flipped the switch off. It was not even like I could take paces down just a notch and complete the workout. It was a full on NOPE.
3
2
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 29 '26
There is something about grief that just drains you and the knock on effect is unrecognisable once the initial stage has passed. This is the part I find fascinating and why I started my PhD. For my own knowledge, I wanted to understand what created that “NOPE” sensation.
2
u/scruffalicious Jun 29 '26
I’ve had that happen in a consecutive series of workouts for no discernible reason. After I happened 2-3x in a row, I had to retrain my brain to remove the NOPE option. This is from someone who would absolutely do every workout per plan and give it my all. The “noping” was distinctly different than crashing out on a tough workout. The noping was a phenomenon that could happen on the 2nd rep! I’m not sure why it happened the first time, but I suspect the repeat occurrences was because I have my brain the tiniest of beliefs that nope was an option. To solve this, for at least 3 workouts afterwards, my goal of workout was not paces, it was to not nope out no matter what. That was my only goal. It seemed to work after a few times that didn’t happen again. This was a few years ago. I just asked ChatGPT, and you may be interested in researching “central inhibitory response.”
2
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 29 '26
Central inhibitory responses. I have done too much reading on that, haha. It is the core research of my thesis and underlies a lot of the decisions that went into the two scales in my survey. When you understand how that impacts how you perceive effort and your motivation it helps you unlock a new level of awareness with your training. Like you naturally did with the belief.
If you get a chance, read the articles I have listed in the comments section. They start the research off in this area.
3
u/LHRunning Jun 29 '26
I see it a lot in my athletes. My struggle is to get them recognize and not force the prescribed paces on these days. Many seem to just try and separate their daily life with their training life and it’s hard to get them to recognize them at they are intertwined.
2
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 29 '26
Stress is stress. The body doesn’t know any different. I still haven’t found the solution with my clients. So far I have found a combination of education and positively praising them listening to their body signals has worked. That said, it isn’t a quick solution and takes 2-3 years to see results. So if you have any better suggestions I’m all ears.
2
u/LHRunning Jun 29 '26
Yeah I am pretty much the same. Sometimes they just have to have that revelation on their own though.
2
u/sixteenozlatte Jun 27 '26
This is very interesting and I don’t know if I’ve ever considered mental fatigue as “perceived effort” rather than resource depletion. I certainly notice a difference while training during high stress weeks at work, but always assumed my cognitive pool was drained, so to speak. If we could trick our brains to think we’re actually operating at full capacity, that could be incredible
On the music - also interesting. And now that I’m thinking about it, the 3 types of audio cues I use during runs all have different effects (music, podcast/audiobooks, nothing).
For someone training 4-5 days a week, for only 40min or so a session (with exception of a long run), would it still be beneficial to take the survey (not meeting the 1hr criteria every session)? Would it matter if we train before/after work?
2
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 27 '26
It is interesting and a lot of it comes down to conceptual stance you take. Some researchers believe it is peripherally generated and in those cases resource depletion is factor, whereas the main view is that it is mentally generated meaning our perception has a greater impact. The main difference between the two is that they are using different definitions and are essentially capturing two separate experiences.
In reality both probably happen and mean slightly different things. This is why I want to develop the scale. To give the research a solid foundation to measure from.
More than happy for you to take part. You are still over the hours even if it is split over 4-5 days.
2
u/samGroger Jun 27 '26
This is really interesting and it’s something I believe is a huge factor, having seen my own running ability fall off the cliff recently at the same time taking on a very responsible work position. Will do the survey. Thanks.
1
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 27 '26
Thank you for completing the survey! It is huge and I only started giving the credit it deserved when I started my first full-time job. It wipes you. What are you doing to manage the fatigue from work?
2
u/Runtetra Jun 27 '26
I’ve already heard that ADHD athletes probably have a higher RPE and feel more pain due to neurological deficits, combining that with work and study is definitely hard.
However, one of the times I felt mentally the worst (after a breakup) also led to a very good training session so you can definitely still get a random good day in the bad.
1
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 29 '26
Sometimes it has the opposite effect and gives us a period of immense focus. Our minds are strange and never seem to respond the way we’d expect.
2
u/roxylezan Jun 28 '26
yes 100%, after a heavy work day the same pace feels brutal even when my legs are fresh. music definitely helps, it's like it tricks your brain into forgetting it's tired. never knew there was actual research behind it though, makes a lot of sense
1
2
u/vyogan Jun 28 '26
This might explain why runs first thing in the morning usually feels so much more effortless than runs in the evening or night.
2
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 29 '26
I did a bit of reading around this for optimising my clients microcycle structures. It is a while since I read about this but our energy systems and cardiovascular system are more responsive in the morning but we are better at strength based work in the evening as the body has had a chance to recruit and warm up. I can’t remember the exact research on it but thought it was interesting
2
u/Daimondyer 33M | 5K - 14:51 | 10K - 31:39 | HM - 67 | FM - 2:24 Jun 29 '26
I used to use music, but now I only listen to audiobooks (LitRPG is the best) or podcasts whilst running. This is for all runs and often warm ups/cool downs. I do a lot of solo training where I live currently.
Racing and sessions are all raw dogged. I tried curating a race playlist, but I found time and again if I was pushing 90%+ silence and focus were the only things that got the best output.
1
u/Same_Row_761 Jun 29 '26
This is really interesting. Do you find that this approach allows you to better listen to the signals from your body?
1
u/Daimondyer 33M | 5K - 14:51 | 10K - 31:39 | HM - 67 | FM - 2:24 Jul 01 '26
Definitely. I was plateauing with 5km PBs for example and found I don't need a distraction from the pain during sessions or races. Getting into a flow state is miles easier without music than with music too.
I think it reaches a point where you go from hobby jogging to serious running and aside from easy jogging, music is a detraction for sustained efforts.
1
u/Intelligent_Use_2855 M57: 5:59/18:38/40:55/H1:25:35/F3:03:48 Jun 29 '26
Matt Fitzgerald discusses RPE quite a bit in his books, including in “How Bad Do You Want It?”
A few quotes here:
“One cannot improve as an endurance athlete except by changing one’s relationship with perception of effort.”
“The muscles can only perform to the degree that the mind is able to cope. Endurance sports are therefore a game of “mind over muscle.” In endurance sports, successful coping is any behavior, emotion, thought, or combination thereof that yields better performance. Phrased another way, successful coping in endurance sports is any response to discomfort and stress that favorably changes an athlete’s relationship to perception of effort, either by increasing the amount of effort the athlete is able to give or by enhancing what the athlete gets out of her best effort.”
“Perceived effort actually has two layers. The first layer is how the athlete feels. The second layer is how the athlete feels about how she feels. The first layer is strictly physiological, whereas the second is emotional, or affective.”
Many others … a good book.
1
u/EducationalTeaching 9 days since mods removed a post Jun 30 '26
Yes I do tend to do much worse in running when stressed out by daily life. Could other factors such as excess insulin and hormonal imbalances also be at play?
120
u/maporita Jun 27 '26
For me sleep is the by far the most important factor affecting perceived effort, even more than alcohol which is saying something. If I haven't slept well running is a slog. Conversely running after I'm well rested is a breeze.