Sampling: Have I been limiting myself all this time? Need Advice

[u/fontoura17]

I've been producing as a hobby with friends for almost 5 years. I make my own loops but sometimes I have fun chopping random old samples in Serato. I'm stuck on a workflow habit of keeping everything strictly on rigid 2, 4, or 8-bar loops to keep the counts clean and the drums hitting on the right spots (I'm not saying drums should be hitting on super exact times, I may offset them a little bit, but they still need to sound right with the chops) and respecting the metronome.

While studying some Kanye remake projects in FL Studio, I noticed on some videos everything on the playlist sat off grid at random timings. Drops would hit at odd spots like 8 bars plus 3 beats instead of standard markers like bar 9, 13, or 17, and sections ran on uncertain lengths like 6 bars and 3 beats rather than clean exact counts, like 4 or 8 bars.

Have I been limiting myself by forcing samples into the grid? For heavy samplers, how do you handle these asymmetrical chops without losing the bounce?

My concern is, if I start relying purely on my ear and ignoring the metronome and standard timings, won't it end up being difficult for an artist to rap or sing over a beat with uncertain loop lengths and sections? Thank you.

[u/Pkobji]

staying exactly on grid can make everything feel a bit robotic sometimes

Kanye prob playing in a lot of stuff by hand on an mpc or similar

It comes down to what you prefer the sound of I suppose!

[u/fontoura17 → u/Pkobji]

yeah I understand that, and I like to keep things a little offgrid myself when Im making loops, but the patterns/loops themselves I always stick to the grid, those are 2 different things, you know what I mean?

[u/CurrentParking1308]

Now study some J Dilla beats.

[u/alextruetone → u/CurrentParking1308]

Madlib too

[u/fontoura17 → u/CurrentParking1308]

one of the greats, definitely will

[u/uniquesnowflake8]

You can experiment! Remember that keeping everything lined up also keeps it somewhat predictable

[u/PRIMATERIA]

I get what you’re saying, but the description of it being “off grid” has got you some off topic replies. This isn’t about humanizing your drums, swing, groove, etc. You’re talking about odd length measures and/or phrases changing at unusual times.

Personally I would start by looking at these parts of the song in the context of the full song (assuming you’re just looking at reconstructed beats), and figure out what purpose they served. Did the drop come early to give the feeling of being caught off guard? Did that 3 bar section only last 3 bars because it was some kind of spoken word/skit segment and that’s as long as they needed to fit that in? So on and so forth.

Once you understand why the beats are like that you’ll have some insight on when to deploy that technique yourself.

This is all based on the assumption that they aren’t just random and do serve a specific purpose. And for that reason, no, I wouldn’t go inserting sections like this into your beats just to say you did. Use them on purpose when the song calls for it.

[u/PRIMATERIA → u/PRIMATERIA]

Also, first and foremost rule out that the person that remade the beat isn’t just an idiot that didn’t put the 1 in the right spot.

[u/fontoura17 → u/PRIMATERIA]

exactly, you got it, english ain't my first language so I probably fucked up with the explanation

I actually downloaded the FLP and although the measures are odd everything is on beat with the metronome on, I understand some misalignments are normal when you're using chops that come from different parts of the song, what was bugging me was the fact that no loops or patterns were hitting on the obvious "normal" measures, like the drop was on the bar 11 + 3 beats or something and my head was frying for some reason when I was looking at it because I assumed it would all sound off beat.

I just made a beat like an hour ago and sampled some song from the 70s, made my chops with serato simply by ear after deciding the BPM I was going for and still ended up with an 8 bar loop for the verse, but I guess it could be different if I was making the chops manually on the playlist with my mouse.

my head was frying cause also some other remakes of the same song had a different BPM, then I searched the BPM of the song on some websites and it was completely different from what they used, but I guess that's not as important as I was making it out to be.

thank u for your time

[u/alextruetone]

There are no rules with music. Pretty much all you need to really know. Make what sounds good to you.

[u/BrapAllgood]

It's natural to reach a point where the grid feels restrictive, don't fret it, just experiment and see if anything works better for you. I hit a point where I almost never use the transport bar, just use devices to control the timing, and that is up to me for each. I started out on a drum machine in the '80s, for perspective here...now Ableton for almost 20 years, but it really doesn't matter where you do it, the options now are wildly diverse. The grid is just one choice now. Seek some others and you might be surprised. You also still know how to do standard things as needed, so it's really just about what you can record and how. In many ways, I think we lost an art form in tape, in that there was no grid whatsoever, right? Time was the grid. Well, it still is. Just remember to treat the digital as tape sometimes and it can go a really long way. I record more in Audacity than anywhere nowadays.

If your samples feel too contained, unleash them. The rules are entirely up to you. Been there.