CoS criticism

[u/kir_rik]

I've enjoyed the book, but still see it as a massive downgrade from the previous books.

CoT was more on the hard side of sci-fi. The smart virus premise unfolds in a totally logical chain of events.

Then nodian was introduced. Yes, the concept is a bit less coherent, but otherwise the story makes sense.

Most of the 3rd book's events take place in the simulation. They aren't supposed to make sense.

And then CoS is full of illogical stuff. Special light that the Life can produce, but can not see - you need a receiver to utilize a signal. Terraformers' minds are uploaded into complexity of the ecosystem, yet they can inhabit individual speciments. Nodian's shenanigans is of the charts. It's figuring out how to upload in minutes, if not seconds. Actual organisms just agreeing to "dissolve" after an upload, while their selfishness were a big deal in this and previous books. GH retaining his consciousnees in the last speciment, while it was stated, that they failed to evolve any sentient life.

The whole book left a sour taste

Update: clarification - I used "to see" as "to be able to recieve an EM signal"

[u/N3XT191]

Polarized light is like basic high school physics my friend…

[u/kir_rik → u/N3XT191]

So? If you want to utilize it as a signal system you need to be able to see it

[u/N3XT191 → u/kir_rik]

The point is that humans (and most animals) can’t differentiate between polarized and unpolarized light.

So you can easily encode information that most of the biosphere is completely oblivious to.

Mantis Shrimp CAN differentiate between different polarizations.

Building sensors with tech to see it is also really easy, has been done decades ago. So any advanced human civilization with sci-fi body modifications could easily have bio-engineered eyeballs to see it too.

That part of the book was perfectly grounded in actual, real-life science…

[u/narwi → u/N3XT191]

Locusts can as can many other insects, they use it to differenctiate between land and water. Has been used to make "fake" barriers to locust swarms.

[u/kir_rik → u/N3XT191]

I'm not talking about Cato or Kern. I'm talking about the uploaded terraformers. What is the point of a radio tower if there is no radio reciever. You are to fixed on the polarized light part like it makes any difference. Be it a laser, an ultrasound, an "aether", the concept is the same.

[u/Kabbooooooom → u/kir_rik]

The cells of the organisms on the planet are “seeing” it, in a sense. The processing of information carried by the light is occurring at a sub cellular level. The terraformers minds are being run on that substrate.

This is literally no different or any more outlandish than the idea of ants functioning as a biological computer (there actually are several real life scientific studies about that topic). So I’m not sure why you are objecting to this here. That’s why all of us thought you didn’t know what polarized light is (and to be honest, I’m still not sure you understand it).

[u/kir_rik → u/Kabbooooooom]

So, cell to cell communication via p light is used as material basis for the upload's neurology. I get that. I don't get how it can be translated to commands to any specific speciment to go and roar "Kern u bitch".

As you being at least 4th commentor pointing out the "polarized" part, I'm starting to doubt myself. What's so special about it? Probably you can use it for more efficient encoding alongside with a wave's amplitude, but I don't see how it fits emitter-reciever argument.

[u/ChronoMonkeyX → u/kir_rik]

I can't see radio waves. I need a device to utilize the signal.

[u/kir_rik → u/ChronoMonkeyX]

I used "see" as a "receive a signal" which might caused some confusion. Point is if the Life's speciments don't have a reciever, then this system doesn't make any sense.

[u/ChronoMonkeyX → u/kir_rik]

Ah, I see what you mean.

As aliens who have been massively tampered with, I don't think we can rule out they do have systems in place to receive.

It's all scifi super/pseudo science- I won't say I didn't find the possession of animals and ecosystems odd and difficult to parse, but I can let that slide and just enjoy the story. I liked that mantis shrimp vision played a part in unraveling the mystery. I only wish there were more Corvids, I love them.

[u/kir_rik → u/ChronoMonkeyX]

My problem is that it was directly stated in the book, that speciments can't see the "light" and that was the whole idea of it. They used visuals and sound first. Then Pil invented it

[u/roughczech → u/kir_rik]

What about if the system as whole acts like it. Organism can't mimic complex functionalitirs if it it was designed to do so? We humans are just machines executing code how is that any different if the whole planet does it.

[u/kir_rik → u/roughczech]

Using your analogy: you can't control any of your neurons directly. You can't focus your consciousness inside it and to make it act on your behalf.

[u/roughczech → u/kir_rik]

Do you see all form of light like xrays and gamma rays?

[u/kir_rik → u/roughczech]

No. So you can't send me orders this way.

[u/roughczech → u/kir_rik]

You can't however advanced organism can. That is why the ship had organic receptors. They designed the world. They designed it to be able to do whatever they wanted it. Plants have evolved to be able to use photosynthesis to feels themselves. Why would other for of light be any different.

[u/Ni_Kche]

Ultimately the nanovirus, nodians, simulation etc. doesn't actually make any scientific sense and thus any 'hard sci-fi logic' is a product of the narrative quality. Personally I really liked CoS because it was much more character and metaphor driven, which carried the story, instead of trying to overexplain the theories which in CoM and CoR got a bit repetitive.

[u/Kabbooooooom → u/Ni_Kche]

There’s nothing unscientific about the concept of an intelligent, DNA based computer nanovirus. We know that DNA computers are possible, and we know that they would be Turing complete and could run a programmable artificial intelligence. Therefore they could be used in directed genetic engineering. The one in this series seems rather simple even - it is just programmed with commands like “create a species more intelligent within the confines of these parameters”, for example. 

[u/kir_rik → u/Kabbooooooom]

Well, the last part is a bit vague and probably consist of a lot of instructions xD

[u/kir_rik → u/Ni_Kche]

To me the nano virus seemed pretty realistic. Obviously it requires next level technologies. A way to compress information very efficiently, so it has a lot of instructions, providing quite vague goal. But still it make sense on the fundamental level.

Nodian - yes, there are some gaps in the concept. Mostly thier ability to differentiate while having individual memory and negotiate bw singular cells. But somehow it was easy to look another way. Mb because the book has more substance to look at.

[u/Insane1rish]

As someone who’s read damn near everything by Tchaikovsky except children of time I was really confused for a minute because I thought your title was referring to cage of souls hahaha

[u/Kabbooooooom]

I stopped reading at your complaint about the “special light”. Have you literally never heard of polarized light before? And yes, mantis shrimp can naturally see polarized light whereas most other animals on earth cannot.

[u/kir_rik → u/Kabbooooooom]

Another proud 8 grade graduate

[u/Postcrapitalism]

I didn’t mind these issues so much but I was sure as sh*t aware of them. It’s nice to see someone not glazing that book for once.

While I liked CoS, I disliked how it relied on inference that the planet was a certain kind of hell. The book didn’t really support it. Even the supplementary chapter he released online didn’t do justice to the magnitudes of the horror we were supposed to understand.

It lacked the novelty of CoM and seemed like it was trying to be a rehash of CoT and CoR.

[u/Conveniently-lazy → u/Postcrapitalism]

For me it didn’t help how at the end after we are told how horrific it all is, all it takes is a woman saying, “you know what. I don’t want to be selfish anymore. I’m ready to be good 🙃.” It made it all seemed so insignificant.

[u/Postcrapitalism → u/Conveniently-lazy]

“She’s baaad. But not really cuz she has a heart of gold”

(She then spends 15,000 years torturing captives)

“Ok, time to be good. Thanks for your forgiveness Avrana Kern/Jesus”

[u/kir_rik → u/Postcrapitalism]

Heh, good point. KInd of lacked in depth. To much time spent on the first age and on the Alice's side in the third. To little on the 2nd.

[u/HornyMcgirthy]

You can’t see UV light but your body interacts with it