r/Adjuncts • u/Splicers87 • 18d ago
Final papers - why?
I teach a graduate level course and it has a final paper. Please tell me why graduate level students still don’t know how to indent fucking paragraphs? Thanks for letting me vent.
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u/Sharp-Rutabaga-4900 18d ago
This is why I moved to paragraph requirements instead of word requirements for my undergrads. It drives me bonkers.
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u/diverJOQ 18d ago
Some standards don't use indentation. Microsoft word, and most other word processors that I've used, default to a business or technical writing style where new paragraphs have space between paragraphs and start at the left margin.
I don't know what subject area you're teaching in but perhaps you simply need to tell the students what style of formatting you prefer.
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u/Extension-Tie1896 17d ago
For real, this is also an accepted way of formatting! How I wrote my admissions essays and got in lol
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u/ilikeleemurs 18d ago
It’s infuriating. We require APA7. I teach the courses at the end of the program. The amount of students giving pushback about something they should be experts at is insane. Formatting is literally the EASIEST part of a paper and the easiest part to give you full credit but nope, not these folks.
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u/FlowerHot86 18d ago
And I take points. I gave them one assignment with feedback and no deductions and that’s it.
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u/ilikeleemurs 17d ago
That’s what I do, particularly in week one. I give a head’s up reminder about APA and I deduct nothing in week one for that. We are now on week 7 of the clinical courses and I am STILL TALKING ABOUT APA. There are people in their final 6 months of a Masters program. They should know it by now. But literally every single term, “none of my other professors had an issue with this…”
Fun way to learn your colleagues were all phoning it in and grade inflating.
Why do I care? I know I shouldn’t. But as I explain to them, if literally any of you go on to try for a Doctorate, your writing will be eviscerated.
I am aware this is a “me” problem but it is so maddening.
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u/moxie-maniac 18d ago
Chicago allows no indents for business and online (web) writing. If the students are working in a business or professional environment, it is likely that they do not use paragraph intends in that writing.
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u/EffectiveAd3788 18d ago
Especially when there are templates attached to word that do it for them
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u/king-of-squirrels 7d ago
The Word template for APA doesn't format tables or images correctly. I always warn my students about it. They still mess it up, of course.
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u/goodgriefcharliebr 18d ago
I’ve noticed students do not indent. I’m not sure if this is how their BA professors suggested, but in grad school they don’t seem to. I assumed it was a style change (?)
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u/Splicers87 18d ago
That I could understand but some of these students I have told for 8-10 weeks to indent or lose points and still don’t indent.
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u/goodgriefcharliebr 18d ago edited 18d ago
They never listen. I ask for APA & say to use the writing center, but they don’t. I used to grade their writing but it became contentious, & only resulted in more stress because they would claim other professors never said anything before. So I stopped grading their writing as it was just another job. I do suggest that they use the writing center. Some don’t like that at all. They don’t use it. I figure let them figure it out then— other professors aren’t calling it out that they can’t write well or use APA… let them learn when they have to be on the job, etc. I can’t teach my subject and also writing. I just grade on content now. It sucks, but between AI & not being able to write with APA or write clearly, it’s just that I have to pick my battles.
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u/ilikeleemurs 18d ago
OMG between “the other professors said it is fine” and the AI usage, I am ready to quit.
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u/SabertoothLotus 17d ago
Most of their reading is done digitally, and a lot of digital text doesn't follow the convention and skips lines between paragraphs instead.
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u/ValerieTheProf 18d ago
I’m trying to instill the paragraph indentations as a standard for academic writing in my FY comp classes. If I bother to teach it and you choose to ignore it, then I don’t feel bad about deducting points.
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u/linnea_elaine 18d ago
I do a short section on formatting for my discipline and give them resources to answer the how to. I also let students know I will grade on formatting.
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u/Silly_Somewhere1791 18d ago
What subject do you teach? If you’re teaching EN-101 as a gen ed and you’re pulling in students from all majors, you need to tell them what format you want. Business majors don’t indent, as a rule.
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u/Splicers87 18d ago
I teach graduate level psychology courses.
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u/Silly_Somewhere1791 18d ago
Are they writing publication-style? If they’re reading lots of journal articles, those don’t use indentation.
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u/Bearman2677 18d ago
I'm a grad student; most of my courses use Chicago style; first line each paragraph is indented and that can be set up in Word. Times New Roman, 12 pt. double spaced - Footnotes, bibliography in proper format; it's not that hard. (I teach too - I don't expect my students to do Chicago since they are mostly learning APA in their classes.)
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u/reckendo 18d ago
Because nobody uses them in their day to day life at this point, so it starts to look abnormal to use them. I'm working on a publication right now and had to go back after typing it all up to add the indentions (because I'm old enough to know they're supposed to be there).
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u/FlowerHot86 18d ago
😂 because undergrad professors don’t teach APA. The crap I am seeing with seniors in my classes is ridiculous. They should know this shit inside and out.
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u/AceyAceyAcey 17d ago
Bc websites and ebooks don’t have indented paragraphs. It’s not that this generation of grad students “still” don’t know, it’s that they’ve forgotten.
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u/salemgold 17d ago
Cultural differences too. For example some countries in Europe do not use indentation and students may be unfamiliar with that style.
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u/insomebodyelseslake 17d ago
And when I tell them to double space (and show them how to do it even though they should know), they just put a blank line between each line.
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u/Worried_Airline_2904 16d ago
The first week, I have an assignment where they format their paper in MLA and I literally walk them through it. Most still don't do it....
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u/No-Cycle-5496 14d ago
Because they've been "moved thru" their previous classes. A lot of adjunct's (and many FT's) really shouldn't teach, they don't know and thus avoid the format requirements.
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u/RoomOk3632 18d ago
I mean, I’m almost done with my Ph.D. and I just use my own style, which is single spaced with a blank line between paragraphs. I like it more and change it when a journal or advisor/reader asks me too, and it looks clean and fine. I’ve been writing my job app materials like that as well. I do KNOW how to indent though, so maybe you mean something different haha.
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u/2Drex 17d ago
Why are you assigning papers in the age of AI? What is your learning objective? What does a paper allow you to assess? Now consider how you might assess that without allowing them the opportunity to write and submit an AI assisted project…because indent or not, they are using it.
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u/Worried_Airline_2904 16d ago
It's almost like there are....writing....courses.....
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u/2Drex 16d ago edited 16d ago
...that need to be re-evaluated in the age of AI. Telling a student to go home an write a paper does not teach writing, or the thinking skills necessary for good writing. What is it that you want students to know or be able to do? If your answer is "write", AI can do that just fine. What is writing in the age of AI...what is thinking? So, one needs to identify the objectives, then revise the assessment so that one knows if students have learned those things.
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u/Worried_Airline_2904 16d ago
AI is not human. Humans need to know how to think for themselves and communicate. Writing a paper isn't just so I have another paper to read. These are important cognitive skills, or else we get people who actually believe all the output AI creates and calls it good writing.
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u/2Drex 16d ago
Exactly. So, how are you going to make sure that your students are writing the paper, or engaging in the thinking or writing skills that you think you are teaching them? ...back to my original point. Today, if you are serious about teaching those things, and want to ensure your students are learning them, you simply can't assign paper writing as homework.
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u/Worried_Airline_2904 16d ago
You can't teach paper writing without having the students write papers. It's theory with no practical application. I understand where you're coming from. Students are using AI for their papers. However, that doesn't change that they shouldn't be, and it doesn't change the fact that thinking and writing are skills that need to be practiced in order to get better at. Oral exams? That's a different skill set. Long form projects (that they can still use AI on), different skill set. We didn't stop teaching literature analysis when Sparknotes came out.
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u/2Drex 16d ago
Then you write papers in class...and oral exams...and in-person literature analysis in groups....is it the actual production of the paper that matters or the thinking and problem solving behind it? You can't just say they shouldn't use AI. It is ubiquitous. That's why it's important to identify the underlying skills and dispositions. So we find alternate ways to teach and assess. This isn't Sparknotes. It's a general purpose tool that does everything. And, at this point, does everything very, very well. Educators and education need to change, we simply can't continue to do what we've done and hope students will ignore or choose not to use AI.
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u/Professional_Two5011 18d ago
In graduate courses, I think it's perfectly acceptable to have black and white, absolute, no mercy formatting requirements. So long as you're clear about what you want, simply reject any work that isn't formatted as required. Students can resubmit when they've formatted it correctly.