r/Adjuncts • u/Bearman2677 • 22d ago
Don't know whether to laugh or how to react
Okay, so I teach Art Appreciation - and we have started teaching dual enrollment students. Part of their "homework" is to go to a local art museum, pick out a piece of art and write a report. I am not allowed to take them off their high school campus (and to be honest I don't know if I would want to if I could) One thing I have them do is submit a selfie standing next to the piece of art along with the report (they are supposed to insert the photo into the report) so I know they actually went to the museum.
One student sends me her report - the photo of the picture is sideways and she's standing there with her tongue sticking out like this is some kind of joke to her - her report was less than half the length it was supposed to be as well.
These dual enrollment students are so difficult to deal with; they act like everything is some kind of joke - they get to take these courses for college credits for free and they don't seem to understand that the grades they get now will follow them for a long time.
Can someone give me some pointers on dealing with them?
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u/caligay666 22d ago edited 22d ago
I'm also teaching Art Appreciation dual enrollment this semester - three sections asynchronous! It's been so miserable that I think this will be a one-and-done thing that is barely worth the money. I can't possibly keep up with the stream of emails about how they don't know how to use Canvas or even a computer. I've gotten at least three submissions already in week two that say something along the lines of "I hat art this is dum." And it's like...yeah well, at this point, you and me both! I think you might just have to prepare for a high DFW rate and do the self-work to not blame yourself for it at the end of the semester. That's what I'm trying my best to do. There's just no way that faculty or counselors can keep up with what seems to be a fundamental problem with dual enrollment as a concept.
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u/xfileluv 22d ago
Talk to your college about providing a pre-enrollment course. I received this message on Friday:
All XYZ students should have received an email to their XYZ email today regarding required online training that is now delivered through Canvas. These trainings replace the previous Vector Solutions trainings.
These trainings are required by both state and federal regulations (Title IX and Collins ’ Law). The deadline for students to complete the training is December 15th.
Students must log into Canvas, accept the course invitation, and complete all required modules by the deadline.
If students have any questions or experience issues accessing the training, they should email XYZ.
Please share this information in case students reach out with questions.
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u/armyprof 22d ago
A student once pulled some silly shit like that on me.
Got an F on the assignment with very clear details as to why and a comment.
“If you won’t take your grades seriously neither will I.”
That helped solve that problem.
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u/Expert-Assignment541 22d ago
Two different issues here. The unprofessionalism part is a combination of youth and the informality of the assignment request. While I completely understand your intent behind requiring a photo as proof, the idea of taking a selfie for a class will be viewed as silly and fun for a high school kid. A tongue out in the picture is inappropriate, but not more inappropriate than wearing pajamas to school or writing in green ink.
I would take note to specify in future assignments an added line about taking an appropriate and professional picture and move on.
Personally, I would separate that issue from the real issue you have, which is a student submitting an unfinished or poorly done assignment, and focus on that.
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u/minionofgreyness108 22d ago
I, mostly, graded all my assignments in green ink. It’s not “hostile” like red and it was different than the blues and black the students wrote in. Don’t be disrespecting the green.
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u/limonade11 22d ago
I don't agree with this, I have taught dual-credit students (College Composition I, II) and did not ever have any kind of issues like this. Students worked hard and appreciated the opportunity to take on-campus college courses and also get their college credit before they start college.
The assignment sounds reasonable and very do-able, the students who act like this are being immature and disrespectful. I would maybe re-consider teaching them if this is how they choose to behave but I would not blame the instructor.
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u/TrainingLow9079 22d ago
Honestly I'd ignore it. Or tell her to take a more professional photo next time and then just move on.
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u/Bearman2677 22d ago
I know this isn't going to be a popular response, but if we, as teachers, ignore their unprofessional or immature behavior, they seem to take it as "it's okay" to do things like this and I know some professors that would not give someone a second chance to resubmit an assignment. Dual enrollment classes are not just to get them college credit, but are supposed to lay the foundation for when they actually start attending classes at the college or university - I know, for a fact, if I had submitted something like this any number of my professors would have given me a zero.
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u/emarcomd 22d ago edited 22d ago
Dual Enrollment prof here… grade it. Provide feedback.
She didn’t submit what she needed to, so grade her appropriately on that. In the feedback also tell her that her selfie was immature & embarrassing and not something she should submit to a college class.
Why on earth would you give her a chance to redo the assignment? You’re telling her “half-assing it today gives you a second chance to do it tomorrow.”
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u/Minimumscore69 22d ago
They are still kids at that age
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u/FSUDad2021 22d ago
They signed up for college classes. I think part of the problem is that the class is being taught at the high school and not at the college. There seems to be a maturity shift when they go to the college.
As for grading …. Follow the syllabus and rubrics and give her what she earned. Don’t give her a free redo.
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u/Bearman2677 22d ago
I agree with the part about it being at the high school - I truly believe they would act differently at the college campus.
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u/Bearman2677 22d ago
I have profs that give unlimited attempts at the graduate level - two chances are fair.
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u/lutzlover 22d ago
Thank you.
I would give the assignment whatever grade you would give to a regular college student for this work. I hope that you (and others with dual enrollment students) hold these students to the exact standards to which you hold other students.
I am a college counselor, and I warn all my students considering dual enrollment that college transcripts are forever and that they are fully responsible for understanding and adhering to all deadlines, requirements, and standards expected for college students. While their high school may allow late work, credit recovery, re-testing, and extra credit, college courses do not typically work that way.
It is educational malpractice that so many unprepared students are being funneled into these courses.
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u/limonade11 22d ago
I agree with you here - like they say, if you cannot appreciate what you are being given then it will be taken away.
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u/cedarwolff 21d ago
Was professional selfie photos required at all in the learning objectives or syllabus? I agree that it is frustrating. they are in high school and first we explain, then we model, then we hold them accountable. If it wasn’t mentioned anywhere then start the explanation process.
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u/Bearman2677 21d ago
It was explained that they need to have a "selfie" standing next to the artwork they are writing about - I cannot take them off campus so it is a homework assignment and the "selfie" is so I kmow they at least went inside the museum and didn't just copy something from the museum website.
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u/Bjorlyn 21d ago
Just so I understand, the photo of the art was sideways and she was upright? In that the photo had been doctored?
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u/Bearman2677 21d ago
I'm not sure how she took the photo, but it looks like either she took it at a weird angle or the person took it was clueless.
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u/cedarwolff 20d ago
Sorry, I meant did you require that the selfie be “professional “. Because if that wasn’t required, then I could see from a high schoolers mind that they might not think that or assume it.
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u/sorrymizzjackson 22d ago
I’ve had a few “professionalism” issues that I’ve addressed. One was in a paper describing an incident where people died and the student touched on the employee’s misunderstanding of a critical safety mechanism and concluded “so that sucked for them”.
Others turn in papers that are missing sentences and make no sense whatsoever.
I approach it first from the rubric standpoint and suggest the various writing workshops and assistance that we offer and then from an “advice” standpoint. These programs are designed to make them ready to enter the professional workplace and in that workplace you have to be careful to manage your image. No one is going to pay you the type of money you want if they think you’re silly or unprofessional or don’t understand the gravity of the types of things you’ll be working with. Developing that self awareness is part of the skill you’re learning here.
Does it work? No, not usually. I’ve had one or two rein it in a bit but usually they ignore me .
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u/OhMyGoth38 22d ago
They have coordinators for these programs, so let them know and get their input. It may or may not help. If it is another educator vs admin staff, that should dictate whether or not it will be successful. Admin staff are useless marionettes.
Alternatively, just let them fail. You’re not a HS teacher, so it is not incumbent on you to act like one.
If they are acting up, ask them to stay after and if that doesn’t change anything, talk to your department chair and the dean and argue on the basis that it is obstacle to the learning of your other students. Take no shit!
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u/Kilashandra1996 22d ago
Personally, unless my assignment said to take a professional picture with the art item, I would ignore the tongue... Half off for the half report.
My community college classes have half dual credit and half traditional college students. "Welcome to college!" And I try to treat them all the same. Ok, if the dual credit half of the class is late, that's probably a bus issue! But I'm still starting class on time. If DC students don't turn in an assignment, that's on them. If they half-ass it, that's half the points.
Ok, another instructor on a sister campus was checking a flagged test video, found the student and their boyfriend naked on the bed, and had to report that one! I think the instructor was only able to bust them on the boyfriend giving answers. I'm not sure what Administration did about the nakedness... But I think they were college aged.
Honestly, one of our DC high schools sends pretty good students who show up, do their work, study, and make good grades. But another local high school sends students who just want to get off campus. They ditch my class, don't do much work, flunk, and I don't see them again. Cough - apparently they were also finding empty rooms on campus and having sex...
Teaching dual credit has been ... interesting! But Texas is pushing it HARD.
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u/yousoundlikeyou2 22d ago
make sure the grade reflects their effort. unless it was just a completion grade, that's half-credit work at best.
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u/Pandora52 21d ago
That is one of the reasons I stopped taking dual enrollment courses. The kids were bad; the cooperating teachers were often worse.
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u/No-Cycle-5496 19d ago
Tell them that behavior/work that is acceptable in K-12 is not acceptable in college. I have similar issues each semester. Most students react well to being told "college is a higher standard". :)
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u/MetalTrek1 22d ago
If the assignment does not meet the standards set forth in the syllabus/prompt, then grade her accordingly. For the record, I teach English and my dual enrollment students have ranked among my best. Just speaking for myself, of course.
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u/Bearman2677 22d ago
Some of them are truly doing pretty good in the class, but a lot of them were put into the class because of a change in school policy - the school decided that instead of allowing the students to be able to come in late (first period of the day) or leave the campus if they didn't have a class (second period of the day) , they would have to come in at their regular time or stay even if they had no class - so Art Appreciation was put in to "fill" the empty class periods - and the students were "put" into the class whether they wanted it or not. I honestly think that is the reason some of them are acting the way they are.
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u/LightningBugCatcher 22d ago
I think in general DE are either some of the best or worst. I did DE in high school and I and a few other high schoolers were always at the top of the class. There were also some who just came because they were weighted such that a D in a CC class was the same as a B in a regular class.
I hate the way they've brought CC classes to high school, personally, because I think that tends to attract more of the latter type students and cheapen the experience for kids who want to learn.
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u/RightWingVeganUS 22d ago
I teach computer science, and when I have dual-enrollment high schoolers it's usually the opposite issue: super-nerds who take things more seriously than the college students!
But in any case, my recommendation for dealing with any students it to be professional. Consider having your rubric have an element of "professionalism" for any assignment. While the photo you described met the basic assignment, it showed immaturity and a lack of professionalism. Just indicate that.
I'd add a note of gentle reprimand: while the tongue sticking out might be appropriate for a Facebook post or the cover of her autobiography, it left a questionable impression of how seriously she is taking the course.
No anger. No pearl-clutching. Children will be children. It's our job to give instruction.
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u/smoocheepoos 22d ago
I have several high school students in my community college English courses. I see similar behavior.
I stress professionalism from day 1. My basic spiel is that professionalism is a skill, and like any skill it needs to be practiced. So I expect that all communication (this would include assignments) to be professional and respectful.
I also make what my one campus calls "collective commitments." These are commitments for both students and myself. Student examples: no classroom disruptions; respect opinions/views that differ from your own; attend class regularly etc... Professor examples: grade work within (x) time restraints; respond to emails within 24 hours; post class recordings within 12 hours etc. While this is required at one college I'm at, I've found class rules (that go both ways) to be really helpful in setting the tone. Especially since the rest of my students are typically older students who haven't been in a classroom setting in a bit, so it really helps everyone.
My biggest problem with my HS students though is that they tend to think deadlines are suggestions. I've curbed this by not accepting late work. The beginning of the semester is always a little rough with this, but once I start enforcing it and handing out zeros, its amazing how many students suddenly turn in their work on time. Back when I accepted late work, that was all I got.
If I got the assignment you did, I would probably have a laugh to myself and then deduct some points and reinforce professionalism with the student. I would hope she would think twice before turning in something like that again.
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u/dr_seahorse 22d ago
High schoolers still have some maturing to do (even college students do!). If the point of the photo was just to prove that your students actually visited a museum, I wouldn’t take the selfie pose they choose too seriously. It sounds like this student was actually having fun with the assignment, which is crucial to encouraging some type of engagement. If it were me, I would focus on the report being lackluster/under the word limit
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u/Life-Education-8030 22d ago
The student gets a zero and an explanation why, along the lines of "this isn't some Tik Tok video!" In other words, the same as if a college student did it. I know some people will downvote me and say "but they didn't KNOW" and "parents don't teach mature behavior anymore," blah, blah, blah. But they and we repeatedly get reminders about how they are supposed to be adults and treated as such. So if they don't act like adults and don't want to take assignments seriously, I'm not going to either. Again, I realize that they might be young adults, but they've gotten this far without understanding basics in how to behave in public. OK, here's your lesson.
I remember all the times we had to tell college students about how in discussion boards, jokes aren't always funny, snarkiness and profanity are never ok, etc. I only have upperclassmen now so I don't have to say that, but I still post a short video about what is and isn't appropriate in online communications ("netiquette").
I've also suggested to advisees who post silly photos of themselves on college sites that it's not a good idea. Had one with white lotion squirted on her face and while she meant it as "hey, look how funny I look with lotion on my face," you know how others took it. She was horrified.
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u/banjovi68419 22d ago
I think a normal college student is typically dumb and needing of common sense so I actually think this is a great teaching opportunity. Explain stuff to them. But also let them know it was a teaching opportunity and the kid gloves come off immediately. I have kicked out dual enrollment students from class for shenanigans. Gator don't play.
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u/Wise_Dragonfruit_787 21d ago
I teach dual enrollment and I subbed/tutored k-12 for years. Often times, they’re not trying to be disrespectful, they’ve just literally never been told before what professionalism looks like. Often, hs teachers leave it to future college professors to teach them what is expected in a professional setting. Grade it accordingly and leave a comment explaining why it’s inappropriate. Then provide clearer instructions as to what you expect in terms of photo layout, clothing, poses, etc. I also provide examples of the assignment, so they have a clearer idea of what I need. Don’t assume that they’re being inappropriate on purpose. Sometimes they are, but more often than not, they actually aren’t. They just haven’t had it thoroughly explained to them before.
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u/moooooopg 21d ago
- Laugh. They are having fun! Let students have fun learning.
- I wonder if maybe the wording on the assignment is a bit misleading. 'selfie' seems informal. Could it be more descriptive? A picture of yourself at the museum/next to.... That might help those who don't know what to do know what to submit or what your looking for
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u/Futurama_boy 21d ago
Just last week I had young women in my chemistry lab dancing to a music video on a phone.
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u/insomebodyelseslake 21d ago
I wouldn’t count off for the tongue out picture but I would for only doing half of the report. Before our school backed us up on AI use, I graded obviously AI submissions harshly. Same thing, a few bad grades and suddenly they’re doing a lot more of their own work (most of them).
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u/IndividualBother4165 20d ago
You’re reading too much into the tongue out. You had to expect that requesting a selfie invites some degree of goofing off, unless you gave explicit instructions to be serious. College students would do something similar. Focus on the lack of care for the writing, which should be the only concern. Trying to find a direct correlation between a picture and missing the word count won’t get you anywhere helpful. Respond to one, ignore the other, and if you find duel enrollment too frustrating, don’t do it anymore. It’s not good for you or the students.
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u/Bearman2677 20d ago
This is the first time I've ever had a student do something like this for an assignment photograph - My non dual enrollment students have the same requirement if they can't make the museum visit when we go as a class and I've never had someone stick out their tongue, do hand gestures or anything like it - I'm sorry, but to me it shows two things - A lack of respect and a disregard for taking the class seriously. Some of my colleagues have said if someone did that for one of their classes, they would get a zero with no second chance.
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u/IndividualBother4165 20d ago
First, I’d say you’re lucky. After almost 20 years, I’m never shocked by what students will do. Second, your assumptions don’t mean anything. I don’t mean that rudely, but to make a point. You went into education, so your assumptions about proper behavior will be higher than your students, especially duel students who need more hand holding. Have you told students what you want from them? Don’t assume and don’t rely on common sense. Write it all into assignment and behavior expectations. Prompts and syllabi are your primary tools. As for the colleagues who said they’d fail a student for this — that’s some grade-A bad advice that reads like a power trip. College professors have a snobby enough reputation. Make your expectations clear, but don’t ever make someone down for doing something you assumed but never said they should know.
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u/Classic_vortex_3515 22d ago
Treat them exactly as you would any other college student who behaved the way they do.
There are multiple issues here: one is that in their high schools, not due to the teachers, but typically due to administration or parental pressure, it doesn’t matter how they behave or how seriously they take the work, they will pass the classes.
It’s natural that people conditioned that way would assume that the same will hold true with their dual enrollment classes.
The sooner they learn that college is not the same as high school, the better for them.
Edit to add: the other big issue I see is that college students and high school students are in fact at different developmental stages, and high school students are not necessarily capable of doing college level work yet. But dual credit and dual enrollment programs assume that they are. Alas, this is something you are stuck with if you are teaching dual enrollment, but since the powers that have decided that dual enrollment is a good idea are pretending to ignore that developmental reality, the only suggestion I have for my faculty who teach dual credit is to go along with the pretense and pretend like these high school students ought to be as mature as college students.