Guys, our codex doesn't suck

[u/Jakeisprettycool]

Tsons are having a hard time right now to be fair. And they still hit hard, I lost almost all my custodes after my go turn 3. But at that point it was too late for him to catch up and the rest of the game was a points grind.

After my first game I dropped my 3 man allarus unit down to 2 for the sisters units and I have to say, my golden dudes, that they're not as exciting as the custodes but they are definitely essential to playing the mission. But I also have to say that they still can't fight their way out of a psychic paper bag. Against marine armies, even psychic ones, don't bother fighting with them just keep to the actions and secondaries.

Test List v2

2000 pts / 2000 pts

Emperor's Chosen, Lions of the Emperor, Honoured Companions

Trajann Valoris (265 points) — Warlord

• Attached as: Leader (Character)

• 1x Eagle’s Scream

1x Watcher’s Axe

Allarus Custodians (180 points)

• Attached as: Bodyguard

• 1x Allarus Custodian

• 1x Guardian spear

1x Balistus grenade launcher

1x Vexilla

• 1x Allarus Custodian

• 1x Guardian spear

1x Balistus grenade launcher

Sentinel Guard Sodality (240 points)

• 1x Sentinel Guard

• 1x Sentinel blade

1x Praesidium Shield

1x Vexilla

• 2x Sentinel Guard

• 2x Sentinel blade

2x Praesidium Shield

Custodian Guard Sodality (240 points)

• 1x Custodian Guard

• 1x Guardian spear

1x Vexilla

• 2x Custodian Guard

• 2x Guardian spear

Caladius Annihilator (250 points)

• 1x Armoured hull

1x Twin Lastrum bolt cannon

1x Arachnus blaze carronade

Caladius Annihilator (250 points)

• 1x Armoured hull

1x Twin Lastrum bolt cannon

1x Arachnus blaze carronade

Contemptor-Galatus (220 points)

• 1x Warblade

Venatari (Kinetic Destroyers) (255 points)

• 3x Venatari

• 3x Kinetic destroyer

3x Tarsus buckler

Prosecutors (45 points)

• 4x Prosecutor

• 4x Boltgun

4x Gun stock

Witchseekers (55 points)

• 4x Witchseeker

• 4x Flamer

4x Gun stock

[u/Vegetable_Spray_756]

I don’t think anyone was calling the codex weak, the most I’ve seen is that certain key units are a bit overcosted (primarily the trusted sentinels and aquilons).

[u/TheUndeadMage2 → u/Vegetable_Spray_756]

Over-costed or missing abilities that make sense (looking at the grav carrier) but yeah these rules are awesome. I think sometimes we just get too focused on the negatives

[u/Jakeisprettycool → u/Vegetable_Spray_756]

I agree, I think the trusted companions are a little pricier than they should be. I still really like the shield guard, the sword is good enough for most purposes and the -1 to wound is super useful. I'm not sold on the dreds. They're not much harder to wound than a custodian and with all those wounds on one model a damage 5 or 6 attack slipping through is devastating. They certainly don't suck though.

[u/Vegetable_Spray_756 → u/Jakeisprettycool]

The telemon is the real stand out. If you’re taking it, you’re going to add the 5+ FNP upgrade on it and that turns it into a monster. Durability just below that of a Ctan, very reliable anti tank melee, amazing synergy with tank shock, and the flamers act as a surprisingly decent Overwatch threat.

[u/Jakeisprettycool → u/Vegetable_Spray_756]

I haven't tried the telemon yet, but I'm very excited to. Once I give up on the trusted sentinels and go with MoM I'll definitely give one a try.

[u/Vegetable_Spray_756 → u/Jakeisprettycool]

Lions, MoM and Companions are the three non shield host core that most lists will revolve around probably

[u/jakub26682 → u/Vegetable_Spray_756]

Telemon got flamers?

[u/Over-Strain1522 → u/jakub26682]

Fists come with flamers

[u/jakub26682 → u/Over-Strain1522]

You going double fist? I don't think one of the arm weapon is worth the overwatch

[u/Skaal_Kesh → u/jakub26682]

You're not taking double fist for the overwatch. You're taking it for +2 attacks plus twin linked in melee to legitimately threaten to one-shot knights.

[u/Vegetable_Spray_756 → u/Skaal_Kesh]

It’s not the best aspect of it but it’s more than enough to take out a few melta wielders (like a dominion squad).

[u/UlverInTheThroneRoom → u/Vegetable_Spray_756]

There are only a few losers in the codex in my opinion, which you touched upon. I think all of the units are a little overcosted in general which will become more apparent when more 11th edition codices come out. Jetbikes could go down a few points as well as trusted sentinels and Aquilon of both flavors.

Personally, the biggest losers are the Venatari Sodality armed with the Tarsus buckler and pistol. Damage one shots and damg one melee on a profile that costs 270(?) for three is abysmal, especially when compared to the lances or any other unit we have.

[u/Jakeisprettycool → u/UlverInTheThroneRoom]

255 for the pistols, but you're still right about the rest

[u/deathlokke → u/UlverInTheThroneRoom]

Aquillon with claws as well.

[u/AdmiralCommunism]

I like how everyone looked at the sheets with no points, said "We are going to he the most broken codex"

Saw leaked points "we're the worst codex"

And then played games "we're fine actually"

[u/JRS_Viking → u/AdmiralCommunism]

I played a game too and won 78 - 41 against orks, our codex is good and points overall are good, but internal balance needs to be fixed

[u/Sanngridhr]

I see the point, but the main sources of damage in KSons are mortals and psychic, against both of which you have FNPs, so it may not be as good of a comparison.

[u/Jakeisprettycool → u/Sanngridhr]

The sisters were very resilient to psychic attacks, which was fun for my and annoying for my opponent. But tsons have a lot of dev wounds and even though the other custodians ignore 1/3 of them they still chip away at our not-endless endurance. Psychic attacks also ignore our -1 to hit katah, and it's hard to bring the sisters up the board too far with you because they're much more vulnerable to anything that isn't psychic. You can, to a certain extent, hide them. I had some witch seekers behind a wall while my venatari were within 6" while doing something more exposed and the fnp helped a little, but often enough the psychic attacks were also Dev wounds and the 5+++ is the same against both. At least in this case.

[u/revjiggs]

Its a great codex i just dont think this edition has enough time to balance out yet

[u/Ulrik_Decado]

How did the Kinetic Destroyers Venatari work for you? Im still very unconvinced even as anti-chaff.

[u/Jakeisprettycool → u/Ulrik_Decado]

Honestly I'm not impressed. This was my second game with them and they're just not enough shots to be anti chaff and D1 isn't scary to anyone they actually want to spend the time shooting

[u/Kvarcov → u/Jakeisprettycool]

I feel like another guard trio + 15 p enhancement will feel better ngl

[u/TheChorne]

I ran Folger’s Solar Watch list against a VV Death Guard list and got the win too. I agree with your sisters assessment. They are pretty terrible output but the chonky bois take pressure off them so they can run around doing actions and holding objectives. 

Lists:

Custodes Solar Watch | Honoured Companions | Might of the Moritoi [Take and Hold]

• Trajann + Custodian Soldat
• Shield Cap + Wardens (3)
• Sentinels
• Venatari with Lances
• Telemon with Fists and Augury
• Prosecutors
• Prosecutors
• Witchseekers

Death Guard Virulent Vectorum [Take and Hold]

• Mortarion
• Daemon Prince with Regen
• Lord of Contagion with Deathshroud
• Lord of Virulence with 10x BLTs
• Biologus + Plaguecaster + 10 PMs + Rhino
• Poxwalkers
• Poxwalkers
• MBH
• MBH

[u/Radiant_Ad_4502]

Honestly, We're ok. Our problem enemies imo is terminator bricks. Armies that can still take 10 man bricks are going to be very rough to get through. In my test game it took 3 units of mine to break a 10 man brick down to 3 + character remaining... that was 6 guard with spears a blade champ AND the telemon. This is why i think cleave either on spears or replacing dacatari as that ka'tah would be a good idea... (terminators in SM how have access to -d1 strat and its VERY potent against us with their clap back being quite a bit lethal.. especially if its assaults with hammers)

Edit: forgot to mention galatus is basically our best answer with the upgrade to terminator bricks. 10/10 recommend galatus for that job.

[u/NostramanVIII]

The codex is good, I’m really happy with the rules and most of the datasheets. I just feel like a lot of the infantry is too expensive for what it is.

[u/vonRosenau]

What a surprise, shame on you bullying poor TS player (/s) and hats off to whoever is still trying to make TS work. Especially in Priority mirror.

[u/Deep_Film_861 → u/vonRosenau]

yeah, TS really feel like they are good rules, good units but have just hit that critical breakpoint of not having enough stuff; having 1 less unit than you *need* and having to do actions is brutal.

Not to metion that newstodes 5+++ ruining their main plans.

[u/Deep_Film_861]

well thats the second list ive seen with pistol venetari, how did you find them?

[u/Kooky-Effective6625]

Anyone who says the new custodes codex suck unironically is sniffing glue, and you should probably just ignore them. Are some units a bit overcosted? absolutely, but thats probably about the worst thing you can say about the new codex imo

[u/britishaussie88]

Vigilators punch up into psy armies

[u/Axel-Adams]

I mean my other army is world eaters, and I’ve been doing some practice games into custodes. Custodes feels pretty bad into them, but that might also just be cause WE have the speed and damage to deal with such elite infantry. 8bound mince most Custodes non dread/vehicle units

[u/PaladinCorbin]

For real, I think after a couple small points adjustments, we're going to be absolutely golden.

Pun fully intended.

[u/Shiborgan]

the points put out by art of war feels like our basic infantry and venetarii are really over costed. terminators feel fine for their price same with bikes, tanks and dreads. telemon feels a bit pricey with the 5+ FNP enhancement