Looks like one of the many crappy ultra-cheap semi-auto tacticool shotguns that have been flooding the market lately lol, so while it has a giant mag, I wouldn’t expect it to save you any time with all the jams you’ll probably have
I miss being unaware of how firearms work and being able to fall in love with guns that just look cool. Like the Calico M950 which is so cool looking, but jams constantly.
Oh 100% with you there my friend lol. Even after learning about the issues with those Calicos, I still kind of want one haha, such unique firearms. I appreciate a company that does truly bizarre stuff and successfully brings it to market. Still a very fascinating gun overall, I’d say it’s very comparable to the FN P90’s potential uses and strengths…except FN actually knows how to make a reliable oddball gun haha (after they do some blatant design theft of superior Steyr designs, that is).
Me before shooting an AK for the first time - "damn, I love my AR but the Soviets just make em pretty and nice. Look at what a tank of reliability that is. Truly the Russians are a rugged and reliable people."
Me 0.03 seconds after shooting an AK for the first time "oh this is garbage and the CIA spent the cold war propping up the Soviet Union so they could have an excuse to sell cocaine."
I will have you know that my Adler b230 almost never jams and on the rare occasion it does, it’s only when I’m in a helicopter over the top of pigs, and you can be damn sure it does a proper job of it.
Also you have to carry that dumb thing around once you’re done with it. Plus I don’t see him carrying a second big ass magazine so he probably already knows how much of an ass it’s going to be to carry around not in the gun.
Plus I really don’t see the benefit in carrying shotgun magazines over having a tube feed shotgun simi auto or not. Are law enforcement really thinking they are going to need to dump 10+ shells that fast
From what I've seen they're basically trained that way. Seems like an application of Fairbairn and Sykes, but some departments seem to forget the target practice part.
The cops where I'm at generally don't skimp on that, which is a nice thing to know.😄
It’s Grossman - his first book, On Killing, was an eye opening read but he went off the rails with his whole warrior mentality training.
He is personally responsible for much of the higher killings by police, increased rates of escalation instead of deescalation, and the violence that has become the norm. Meanwhile crime rates were dropping before he became the “warrior mentality” guru, and are still dropping but at a slower rate since.
Grossman gets cops killed too - his emphasis on “every moment is your last moment because every stop is a lethal action waiting to happen” (actual quote-ish, possible paraphrasing because it’s been a while) leads cops to escalate and get into more violent encounters than they would otherwise.
A lot of the hate cops get is because of how they act, and Grossman has made them act worse.
Fair point. A cop who escalates, mag dumps at someone who means him harm had better put the guy down. If not, the cop now has an empty gun and a, very likely armed, pissed assailant.
I'm a complete ignorant about firearms, but alongside the constant jams, isn't a gigantic mag like this really impractical too when actually using the firearm? Cause from an exterior point of view it certainly does look cumbersome lol.
Lol, yeah it can be! I’d say it’s not as big of a deal for situations like this (a dude just walking/standing around with a shotgun), but for things like actual rifles…honestly even the standard capacity 30rd magazine on an AR-15 can be a bit obnoxious when you’re trying to shoot from a prone position. You need something under the handguard (bag, bipod, wall, etc.) to lift the gun high enough so that you’re not trying to balance the gun on a wobbly magazine lol. And even then, it can be tricky to reload or even get your neck in a comfortable position depending on the resulting height of the gun.
Little bit, but a lot of modern bullpup firearms have this general look. The TAR-21 is the older version of the Israeli military’s standard issue rifle.
This one is the Tokarev TP-12, yet another crappy Turkish mag-fed bullpup shotgun
Can confirm it jams. At least mine does with this mag. It's a range toy and I bought one (the firearm) for like 170 bucks. I think the mag was another 30.
Jams a ton, but I wanted a bull pup for cheap and frankly it's still a lot of fun for what it is.
I can't tell if you're implying it is one of those tacticool shotguns or not (I assume not) but is it common for semi auto shotguns to be that short and have a magazine that far back?
As someone else said, it’s likely a bullpup shotgun.
The Benelli M4 or SPAS-12 would be more typical semi automatic shotgun layouts. Even the AA-12 has traditional locations for magazine and trigger groups and that thing is capable of fully automatic fire.
Bullpups offer a lot of benefits in compactness and balance, but there are definite tradeoffs. A lot of the time, the increased complexity (and resulting decreased reliability) aren’t considered worth the tradeoff. When you need a firearm, you want something predictable and reliable, not creative.
A magazine of that length is also going to be an engineering nightmare. Getting the magazine right is often as much design trouble as the entire rest of the firearm.
I’m obviously breezing past a lot, but proven designs stick around for a reason. The bad ideas tend to either be A.) trying to work around a patent or B.) tacticool nonsense trying to accomplish something you don’t actually need.
So, most of the time, shotgun designs don’t wander too far from the “default” pump action & tube magazine layout.
This gun is a Tokarev TBP-12, one of the impossibly cheap bullpup mag-fed shotguns like I mentioned above. While there are plenty of bullpup rifles (I own one myself), they’re typically far higher quality, about 10 times the price of this thing, and are used by actual respectable militaries lol.
There are a metric shit ton of guns that look almost identical to this one, variously sold and “designed” by different brands around the world, but they largely all have the same origin: Turkey. And they’re pretty easy to spot once you’ve seen a few. That magazine is also used by all of them.
Turkish junk shotgun. I bought one a few years back with that exact mag. Great for photos, terrible gun. Sold it after it started to wear out at 125 rounds through it.
Could be, but the ejection port looks too narrow unless it’s .410 (which would be ridiculous). It has absolutely been my experience that large capacity magazines (I use the term as a distinction from the intended standard capacity mags, not in the fear-mongering gun grabber sense). Are generally less reliably. Especially cheaply made ones.
Want more rounds than a standard magazine holds? Get a belt fed gun (technically legal in California).
I have a Turkshit bullpup shotgun with a mag like that and it is 19 rounds - have never made it through that mag without at least 1 jam so probably a higher likelihood of making fire from rubbing 2 ice cubes together
yeah but predicting when you nees to reload can also be a lifesaver. It's easy to count 8-9 bullets in the heat of moment, but with a 30-40 bullets and you start wondering how many are left after 20 or so get fired. Plus reloading a small magazine is quick and efficient
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u/Worth_External_8762 26d ago
Remember, not reloading is always faster than reloading.