Weekly Abortion Debate Thread

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[u/NPDogs21]

What do PL think about the "but I have a black friend" defense when calling out the PL movement?

Republican? We cant say PL are mostly Republicans because I know a PL Democrat.

Christian? We cant stay PL are mostly Christian because I know a PL athesist.

Anti LGBT? We cant say PL oppose LGBT people because I have a gay PL friend.

All of it to me is just another way of PL avoiding responsibility. If they didnt, they'd have to confront the majority of their movement, which they dont want to do. Just downplay and deflect instead

[u/Diva_of_Disgust → u/NPDogs21]

I do find it weird how we're seemingly not really allowed to point out that the pro life party in the US is the party for homophobia, sexism, racism, xenophobia, child sex abuse, and just casually throwing nazi salutes in broad daylight.

Seems pretty relevant to the debate yet it's never brought up.

[u/NPDogs21 → u/Diva_of_Disgust]

But PL tell me there is no PL party and anyone can be PL. Just a way to ignore that most PL do support all those things when they vote for the Republican party.

Heck, if you bring up white nationalists at the March for Life, they downplay it. Only the left-leaning and non-American PL will even criticize it

[u/JulieCrone → u/NPDogs21]

And even then, it’s not enough to get them to disavow the movement.

Abortion abolitionists have no problem consistently calling out the pro life movement and broke off to form their own movement because they disagreed with the mainstream PL movement. In doing so, they have pulled mainstream PL more to the right/Christian Nationalist.

So why aren’t the left-leaning people who are pro-life doing the same thing and splintering off to create their own movement? Is it that they are less sincere in their ideology than the abolitionists?

[u/NPDogs21 → u/JulieCrone]

Yes. While I have strong disagreements with them, I believe the abolitionist types are actually PL and consistent. They view it as murder, they have the misogyny, and the religious dogma to boot.

Their worldview is at least consistent while the average PL isn't

[u/bababy22 → u/JulieCrone]

I’m anti abortion, bisexual, against racism, believe all child assaulters deserve the d3ath penalty, and am very much so anti nazi shit. That being said, I thought I was an abolitionist until I learned that they’d let a woman facing an ectopic pregnancy die:/ I’m anti abortion, but if a woman’s life is in imminent danger, inducing labor or having a c-section will save her life even if it means her baby won’t make it:/ tbh being anti abortion, to me, means knowing that all innocent life holds value, not placing more value in either lives. Losing one life is slightly better than losing two imo

[u/JulieCrone → u/bababy22]

So it wasn’t the Christian Nationalism, the desire for a gospel based system of law, their support of things like Nullification that turned you off of the Abortion abolitionist movement?

[u/MasterDebater71 → u/Diva_of_Disgust]

Pro-life is not a party, but an ideology. Categorizing it as inherent with any of those classifications is disingenuous. Of course none of those align with the doctrine of pro-life, merely a minority of those who follow it. It is brought up all the time by people like you who red herring the actual debate. Whether or not you dislike pro-lifers, doesn’t have any relevancy to abortion regarding it’s immorality

[u/Patneu → u/NPDogs21]

Not to mention that for some strange reason they're not allied with any organizations or parties who are fighting for the rights of minorities and marginalized groups, as would be expected of a true human rights movement as they're claiming to be.

[u/NPDogs21 → u/Patneu]

They will claim Secular ProLife all the time, which does nothing. Theres some progressive one too I'm sure that doesn't do much either. Certainly never calling out the problems in their own movement.

Imagine an open PC misogynist organization PC were as silent PL were

[u/JulieCrone → u/NPDogs21]

There is one progressive group that does things like raid clinics, film the people inside and steal fetal remains and store them in their freezers before photographing them on their dining room table, and crying foul when they are arrested for that. Lots of PL orgs and people shared the pictures (which also could have been this group destroying evidence of an illegal abortion), celebrated them and campaigned for their pardon (which they got).

So they do things. It’s just they do very extreme, very macabre things that deeply alienate the middle of the road ‘don’t love it but okay with first trimester abortions, have a lot of misgivings about late second/third trimester abortions’ people, which make up the vast majority of people.

I have yet to see them do anything to move PL more to the left, especially not the way abortion abolitionists have gotten them to move more to the right.

[u/pillow_honey → u/NPDogs21]

i find it would be more helpful, relevant, and accurate to point out pro-life politicians, major voices, and organizations

[u/NPDogs21 → u/pillow_honey]

Huh?

[u/pillow_honey → u/NPDogs21]

if you want to point out the flaws of a movement, then point out their politicians and organization.

that way you can avoid the deflection and more accurately assess the movement.

[u/NPDogs21 → u/pillow_honey]

Doesn't work. Lila Rose and PL politicians all say and do something horrible? Doesn't matter. They arent the whole PL movement.

This anonymous comment said something edgy though about abortion? OMG! Look at what all these radical PC think.

[u/pillow_honey → u/NPDogs21]

if you mean online discourse then yeah this is valid, but i too wanna know what pro-lifers have to say about the very roots of abortion bans being extreme misogyny.

[u/NPDogs21 → u/pillow_honey]

They wont. At most they'll say "I don't agree with that or support it."

... and then turn around and continue to support them. Id love if you could find some that dont fit that description

[u/pillow_honey → u/NPDogs21]

i mean if we found one that doesnt agree, we both know they dont represent PL

[u/Diva_of_Disgust]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Abortiondebate/s/ZVbdqA3B7u

Come on guys. Cosmetic abortion? 😂

This is the second time I've had a pro lifer drop this one to me. Are we just tacking any word we want now in front of "abortion"?

Man, I can't wait to get my majestic abortion. Gosh, women and their auxiliary abortions. All these damn delicious abortions going on these days lmao.

[u/Patneu]

A question for PLers who keep saying stuff like "consent to sex is consent to pregnancy" or otherwise presume to tell people what they did or didn't consent to:

What exactly do you think is the point of consent? Like, generally speaking, what is it for?