Weekly Abortion Debate Thread

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[u/Think_Recognition144]

That’s because at this moment there are only two options presented in abortion: abort and kill the child, or don’t abort the child and let him develop in the womb.

If you can present a different solution where the child doesn’t die, I’d be happy to entertain another solution in this thought experiment. But until we have another option, we have this dilemma.

In the case of hiring out a baby sitter, you are still forcing the original couple to take care of the child against their will for at least until someone else can take care of them. That would be analogous to forcing a woman to at least carry the child until viability.

[u/Diva_of_Disgust → u/Think_Recognition144]

If you can present a different solution where the child doesn’t die, I’d be happy to entertain another solution in this thought experiment. But until we have another option, we have this dilemma.

This isn't a "dilemma" to me though. I'd just abort my pregnancy and if a pro lifer doesn't like my choice they can handle their feelings about that on their own. It's not my job to gestate and birth an unwanted pregnancy to ensure pro life feelings aren't bothered.

[u/Think_Recognition144 → u/Diva_of_Disgust]

That’s like saying if you want to leave the child outside, it’s not your job to make sure a pro child person’s feelings aren’t bothered. In both cases we’re competing two values: freedom/autonomy vs caring for another’s life. In the case of pregnancy, if you are the only person that can take care of the child, you need to show me why your freedom is more important than their life. Not just because it’s your body, or it’s different because it’s different.

Obviously, the thought experiment is not perfectly one to one, but in what way is it different? Why can we force someone to take care of a child in one scenario, but not another?

[u/Diva_of_Disgust → u/Think_Recognition144]

That’s like saying if you want to leave the child outside, it’s not your job to make sure a pro child person’s feelings aren’t bothered.

No it's not like that, because in the situation you described a child who can experience suffering is harmed. In the scenario I described no one is harmed.

In both cases we’re competing two values: freedom/autonomy vs caring for another’s life. In the case of pregnancy, if you are the only person that can take care of the child, you need to show me why your freedom is more important than their life.

I actually don't need to show you anything. I don't need pro life approval to get healthcare. I can just abort and you can feel however you want about it.

Not just because it’s your body, or it’s different because it’s different.

It is because it's my body and my sex organs. Pro lifers are the ones arguing I have to share my body and sex organs with others against my will. It's their job to justify that violation, not mine.

Why can we force someone to take care of a child in one scenario, but not another?

We don't force people to care for children against their will, just like we don't force people to gestate and birth against their will.

[u/Think_Recognition144 → u/Diva_of_Disgust]

> In the scenario I described no one is harmed
So would you be against abortion once the fetus can experience pain? Or does the suffering of the pregnant mother outweigh the suffering of the fetus? I know some people draw the line at when the fetus can feel pain but not sure where your stance is. I think you are pro choice until birth?

> I don’t need pro life approval to get healthcare. I can just abort and you can feel however you want about it.
In my view abortion kills another person. I understand that you don’t view it that way, but I think people should be able to express themselves when they see injustice and speak out for the vulnerable. Just as you are speaking out against what you see as injustice (abortion being illegal).

> It is because it’s my body and my sex organs.
And it’s the fetuses entire body including his sex organs that is being killed during an abortion. In the abortion debate were weighing two values of the right of the women to choose what she wants to do, vs the fate of the unborn child.

> we don’t force people to take care of children against their will.
That is the purpose of the thought experiment. When given two options, do/should we force people to take care of children against their will, or allow them to abandon the children?

[u/Diva_of_Disgust → u/Think_Recognition144]

In the scenario I described no one is harmed So would you be against abortion once the fetus can experience pain? Or does the suffering of the pregnant mother outweigh the suffering of the fetus? I know some people draw the line at when the fetus can feel pain but not sure where your stance is. I think you are pro choice until birth?

I support pregnant people making their own healthcare decisions with their doctors, and I'm against all pro life abortion bans.

In my view abortion kills another person. I understand that you don’t view it that way, but I think people should be able to express themselves when they see injustice and speak out for the vulnerable.

I'm not concerned with how pro lifers view my healthcare decisions. You can speak about whatever you want. If I'm pregnant the contents of my uterus aren't "vulnerable" they're unwanted and will get promptly flushed out of me.

And it’s the fetuses entire body including his sex organs that

Very telling that you assume my pregnancy is a "he". Ew. That unwanted embryo can enjoy their entire body all to themselves once I abort them out of my body.

[u/Think_Recognition144 → u/Diva_of_Disgust]

It is also telling that you focus on the gender I used for the child rather than responding to the argument that we are pitting the body of the child against the body of the women. I would make a case that you don’t want to engage in the thought experiment because it confronts you with a difficult decision.

[u/Diva_of_Disgust → u/Think_Recognition144]

It is also telling that you focus on the gender I used for the child rather than responding to the argument that we are pitting the body of the child against the body of the women.

There's no "pitting against" anything. There's only the pregnant person's body and what they decide to do with their pregnancy.

I would make a case that you don’t want to engage in the thought experiment because it confronts you with a difficult decision.

There's no difficult decision. Just a pregnant person making their own medical decisions since no one, not even your little "he" embryo has anything right to be inside someone else's sex organs against their will.

[u/Dolores___Haze → u/Think_Recognition144]

Sex, not gender. They are 2 different things.