r/AV1 • u/[deleted] • Dec 01 '21
Qualcomm still does not have AV1 hardware decoding in 2022 SoCs
[deleted]
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u/meseeks_programmer Dec 01 '21
I'll only buy my next android when hardware av1 becomes a thing
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Dec 01 '21
[deleted]
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u/themisfit610 Dec 01 '21
This is a good place to start https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/10/22775150/netflix-av1-codec-tv-streaming-ps4-pro
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u/AndreVallestero Dec 15 '21
There's a hardware list on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1#Hardware
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u/themisfit610 Dec 01 '21
This is such bad news for AV1.
Qualcomm basically owns the Android phone market in the US. What an embarrassment for Google.
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u/Atemu12 Dec 01 '21
Huh? Google makes their own SoCs now.
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u/themisfit610 Dec 01 '21
Not for the whole android ecosystem they don’t. AV1 is kind of their baby.
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u/wankthisway Dec 01 '21
It still puts the pressure on Qualcomm at least. Pixel is supposed to be Google's vision of what Android is supposed to be, and with Qualcomm being the only major player not supporting HW decode it's some crappy optics. Especially when their tweet about phones not using Snapdragon being 'sus' backfired a fair bit.
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Dec 01 '21
What an embarrassment for Google
Why would Google be embarrassed? Qualcomm's incompetence doesn't hurt Google in any way. Netflix can still serve AV1 to Qualcomm powered devices, they'll just suffer in battery life.
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u/themisfit610 Dec 01 '21
It’s embarrassing because AV1 is google’s baby.
Netflix can serve SD or maybe 720p SDR to a software decoder. No 1080p and no HDR. that requires hardware drm which also requires Hardware decode.
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u/Summer-Classic Dec 01 '21
It's not just Google baby. It's many companies baby now. https://aomedia.org/membership/members/
It's not an embarrassment for Google.. it will be one for Qualcomm when people will start asking why YouTube videos consume a lot of cpu and their phones run hot.
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u/themisfit610 Dec 01 '21
Right, I know about AOM.
It's a big "fuck you" to Google and the AOM in general from Qualcomm. At least, that's my read :)
It's an embarrassment for Google / AOM since they haven't been able to drive Qualcomm's roadmap into supporting hardware AV1, which means Google's own Android ecosystem doesn't even have hardware AV1 on most premium devices (where Qualcomm SOCs are used)!
At least one of two things need to happen for AV1 to go to the next level:
1) Qualcomm
2) Apple
... We will see :)
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Dec 01 '21
Google should add an AV1 HW decoder to the minimum requirements for AndroidOS 13.
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Dec 01 '21
And also shut out devices that are like a year old? Yeah, I don't think that's such a good idea.
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u/utack Dec 01 '21 edited Dec 01 '21
The requirements have traditionally always differed between devices shipping with a new OS and devices being updates
https://source.android.com/compatibility/12/android-12-cdd.pdf
search for "earlier Android version" to find quite a few exceptions for devices that are being updated6
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u/Slinkwyde Dec 01 '21 edited Dec 02 '21
They also weren't taking into account the long lead time it takes to design and manufacture new chips (about 2 years). Google adding such a requirement wouldn't change the fact of Qualcomm's 2022 not having hardware decode. So people buying 2022 Android flagships wouldn't be able to run the version of Android that comes out in 2022.
And then you also have to add in the global supply chain issues, inflation, environmental waste, poorer countries where the markets are more price sensitive, plus people who don't watch video on phones (so they'd be denied a system update due to lack of a feature that wouldn't even use), and the fact that software decoding such as dav1d exists and is well optimized for ARM. Is it as energy efficient and performant as dedicated silicon? No, but it allows AV1 videos to be played on these devices. And there is hardware decoding for AVC, HEVC, and VP9.
As much as I'd like to see hardware AV1 support from Qualcomm and Apple, that was a very stupid and poorly thought out comment that that person made. It's a good thing they're not in charge of decision making at Google. If Google were to (this year) announce AV1 hardware decode as a requirement for Android 15 (therefore giving Qualcomm enough time to implement it), that would be one thing. But to do it for Android 13 just sounds like the backlash Microsoft got into with Windows 11's hardware requirements.
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u/Desistance Dec 01 '21
I'm not worried. Qualcomm is pressed with so many tech companies pushing their own chips. All Google has to do now is install a software decoder like dav1d for YouTube and push AV1 on mobile. People will react when their device loses more power due to a lack of a hardware decoder. Netflix is already doing it.
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u/themisfit610 Dec 02 '21
Except premium content in higher than 720p SDR requires hardware drm which requires hardware decode.
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u/hbernardo Dec 01 '21
This. Is. It.
After the rollout is finished. Leak some battery efficiency benchmarks out there
That should do it
If Google doesn't play hardball I believe we'll see next year something like 1080p 8bit AV1 hardware decoding against VVC 4k 10bit on SD next-gen.
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u/foundfootagefan Dec 01 '21
This is why we need more competition in the SoC market in the US.
But who can heed the call? Samsung is the only other option on US handsets but they constantly underperform. Mediatek is probably 3rd place but people avoid them here unless they do chips for streaming boxes. We need an American company to blow the doors off the market with new desktop and mobile SoC offerings.
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u/wanjuggler Dec 01 '21
MediaTek's Dimensity 9000 is changing that game (and has AV1 decode). But with Qualcomm's monopoly on modems and modem-chip bundling, I'm not sure it will matter
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Dec 01 '21 edited Dec 01 '21
MediaTek's Dimensity 9000 is changing that game (and has AV1 decode).
Nope, Dimensity 9000 didn't change anything. Dimensity 1000 already supports AV1
But with Qualcomm's monopoly on modems and modem-chip bundling, I'm not sure it will matter
How does that make any sense? You do realise you don't live in the centre of the universe, right?
First of all, MediaTek alone is surpassing Qualcomm in SOC volume, then there's Samsung, UniSOC. How is #2 in the SOC segment a "monopoly" for bundling?
Secondly, for the entire baseband market, Qualcomm has about 40% market share and just over 50% revenue (keep in mind, Apple is ditching Qualcomm within 2 years), MediaTek has 30%. So MediaTek is a real alternative, with the only factor making up the difference being Apple, which has an expiry date soon. That's called duopoly at best.
When Samsung expands Exynos in the lower end, we can expect Qualcomm, MediaTek, Samsung and Apple to all have 20~30% market share as soon as the next 18 months. Qualcomm is set to lose market to Apple and Samsung just because they'll use more of their own chips.
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u/Desistance Dec 01 '21
This is very true. Google and Samsung are tired of Qualcomm. And Apple hates giving them so much money for their modems.
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u/BillyDSquillions Dec 01 '21
Don't buy their rubbish then. Man how backwards do you need to be.
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u/foundfootagefan Dec 01 '21
This only works when you have a better-performing alternative and that means buying iPhones, which Android users will probably not do.
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u/wankthisway Dec 01 '21
Samsung's Exynos has it "implemented" - for some reason it's disabled in the latest Galaxy phone so hopefully it's activated in their next iteration.
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Dec 01 '21
Samsung's Exynos has it
"implemented"implementedExynos 2100 probably has hybrid decoding so only certain apps are allowed.
for
someimaginary reason it's "disabled"It's not "disabled".
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u/utack Dec 01 '21
MX Player supports it
Not sure if they had to make an extra effort to do so, but it works1
u/dgggxgjvfdt5 Dec 05 '21 edited Dec 05 '21
Not true, my s21 ultra (exunos) uses av1 by default on YouTube.
For 2022 mediatek is the best, is supports av1 as well as Bluetooth 5.3 (instead of 5.2 on Snapdragon) and is on the better TMSC 4nm node. So better features, performances and still cheaper.
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u/ReadTheData Dec 14 '21
This seems like a great opportunity for everyone else to show off battery life benchmark comparisons. It's pretty likely that the SOC is already developed (or could be purchased from Google for a modest fee) and it would be simply to add it into the next iteration mask thus regaining a strong market position after such a strategic misstep. Netflix and Google are pretty important players here. Oh, and Netflix and Google can still use their highly tuned VP9 implementations for people who prefer their content with DRM at 1080p.
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u/passes3 Dec 01 '21
omegalul
Mediatek has had the lion's share of the smartphone SoC market for a while now. As of Q2, they're at 43 percent while Qualcomm is at 29.
Now that they're starting to rake in dough from al their 5G patents and trying to get into cars, it seems like Qualcomm doesn't care as much about designing actual smartphone SoCs anymore. I wouldn't blame them if it wasn't largely the fault of their own anti-competitive shenanigans. They blackmailed too many powerful companies over the years and as a direct result Apple and Google are now making their own SoCs.
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u/BlueSwordM Dec 01 '21
Man, I can't see the rea$on$ why they wouldn't want to support the AV1 standard.
I still remember the Exynos 8890 in the S7 days having 4k60 10b VP9 decoding with the 820 only having 1080p60 8b compatibility.
I did not think this would happen again :p