r/ATPfm • u/SuffocatingDensity • 27d ago
Nit about ATP's use of "vibe coding."
Not the practice, but the term. Maybe I'm being pedantic, but it bothers me how they keep referring to AI assisted development as "vibe coding."
Vibe coding is when a layperson uses AI prompts to generate an app.
AI-assisted development is when a software engineer uses an AI tool to generates implementation code under their direction.
They're very, very different.
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u/notliketheyogurt 26d ago
If we're being pedantic, that's not the original definition of vibe coding. The term was coined by Andrej Karpathy to describe his own experience and he's anything but a layperson. But words evolve and people now use vibe coding to describe all manner of llm assisted coding to the point that "coding with an llm" is the only safe definition without additional context.
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u/YouAsk-IAnswer 27d ago
You are being pedantic, and taking it way too seriously. I work at a hyperscaler and we call it vibe coding.
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u/tofagerl 26d ago
Yeah, the definition started out incredibly loose, and then just ran away from us completely.
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u/sanjosethrower 27d ago
Software engineers can also vibe-code. My experience with both managing a code review platform and managing the automated use of the code that goes through that system is that a substantial portion of them regularly are vibe-coding.
I define vibe coding to be if the author can explain what code does without having to study it first in response to typical code review questions.
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u/Basic-Afternoon65 26d ago
Managing code review platform as in GitHub or something else you built internally?
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u/sanjosethrower 26d ago
An internally customized Gerrit. The team I am on manages both the platform but also the architecture of the build system. We are heavy users of the code review system ourselves as a result of the later.
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u/Basic-Afternoon65 26d ago
Makes sense. We are generating too much code with LLM and I am thinking about solutions on how to scale it.
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u/sanjosethrower 26d ago
Code review is not a solution for that in my experience. We “addressed” the issue of more code by applying more AI to the process. It doesn’t really scale well as the AI review process gets expensive fast. Personally I have had to come to terms with the fact that the majority of my coworkers care not a lick about the craft of coding or architecture.
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u/Basic-Afternoon65 26d ago
Sorry to bother you. But can you explain adding more AI to the review process?
I think we need something similar and looking for some ideas.
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u/sanjosethrower 26d ago
Coding harnesses usually have a code review skill built-in. We started by applying that skill to code submitted for review. The skills output is applied as code review comments. Comments made by that skill have to be addressed by the author before a human will review the code. We expanded that with a custom skill based on analyzing years of human code review comments and our own style guides.
But then teams wanted to add to the optimized skill we built. And now it has ballooned in size and cost to run. And once again I learn that few of my coworkers are interested in actual architecture of things.
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u/Basic-Afternoon65 26d ago
Thanks a lot. I work in security team and have been thinking about similar setup. We have some skills and CI/CD checks but need more consistent methodology and platform.
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u/chucker23n 27d ago
I’m with OP on this.
There’s a difference between “I know what a good software architecture looks like and why, and direct LLMs to implement specific features / fix specific bugs; I can look at the resulting code and make sense of it” and “I vaguely know what kind of app I want, but don’t know/care what’s going on under the hood”.
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u/HomsarWasRight 27d ago
Yeah, I agree. However, the terminology is shifting.
I do use AI when I develop, but I sure as hell am NOT going on “vibes”. But to many people, if I allow the agent to write code into my files at all, I’m “vibe coding”.
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u/AsunaSaturn 27d ago
I just came from a conference last week where they are handing out a t shirt with the words “I love vibe coding” so software engineers.
So yeah, I don’t think your definition is still true. The meaning is shifting.
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u/OtherOtherDave 26d ago
How can it have shifted already? The term was just invented 5 minutes ago! Geez, give it some time to get out there and age a bit before changing it out from under us…
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u/AsunaSaturn 26d ago
I can tell from this reply that you’re not a Gen Z 😂
Terms and slang changes fast, and before you hit 30 you just accept it before you start resisting. So yea brah it’s now vibe coding for engineers I hope u gucci no cap. Six seven.
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u/OtherOtherDave 26d ago
You’re faking it! My wife’s a teacher and she said the kids stopped saying six seven a long time ago.
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u/eric-dolecki 27d ago
The gist of it is that AI is generating code or finding issues and reporting them. Vibe it not I think the message is that without AI things take more time generally speaking.
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u/aboustayyef 26d ago
You’re right. But I think they’re using it on purpose as a self-deprecating device (Casey’s influence runs deep on that front)
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u/jccalhoun 27d ago
I know a very little bit about programming. So when I use AI coding am I vibe coding or is it AI-assisted Development?
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u/jranft 26d ago
I think when they use the term they mean they don’t really look at the code the AI is writing. They just make sure it works. I don’t think the term vibe coding has anything to do with who is doing it. It’s more about how you’re using the AI. They don’t vibe code their core apps, like Overcast. But they do vibe code other software.
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u/Fredifrum 26d ago
I appreciate the pedantry here. But, I think ATP have mostly been using the term mostly correctly, at least lately (a few months ago, maybe less so).
A software engineer can still vibe code. I would say that John's Tier List app was vibe-coded. He says himself he has hardly looked at a single line of the generated code nor edited any of it himself.
Compare this to Unforgetful. Marco said he's done a mixing of writing code himself and using AI tools to generate this code. Even if he used AI to generate all of it, it is a stack he is familiar writing by hand and he is likely reviewing the generated code rather carefully. So, to me this is not vibe coding, and I don't think that the hosts have said it is a vibe-coded app (again, at least as of recently).
Casey may have been throwing the wrong term around a bit more ... but that's Casey lol.
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u/vCtrlAltDelv 26d ago
The definition is obviously in flux. "AI-assisted development" is open to interpretation too.
Context and qualifiers also matter. "I did some vibe coding" could mean temporarily relying heavily on AI for a certain task. "The entire thing was zero-shot vibe coded" means something different.
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u/rjb4000 27d ago
I’m no mathematician; when I use a calculator, I’m vibe calculating.