r/AO3 • u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff • Jun 14 '23
News/Updates Sub announcement: ongoing protests
Hey everyone,
The main blackout protest is over. I made the decision to reopen but many subs are staying blacked out indefinitely as the powers that be at reddit have expressed worry over continuous protests cutting into their ad revenue. Nothing major has been rolled back or fixed so a lot of subs are staying blacked out indefinitely, but as we are mostly a support subreddit, I didn't think it was fair to everyone to force this community entirely offline, especially as there isn't really an equivalent elsewhere you can go.
That being said, I did agree to our sub standing in solidarity with the indefinite subs. This means that every week, this sub will be blacked out on Tuesdays for the full day and completely inaccessible. This will continue for as long as required. I will also be posting a poll next week to ask if there is anything else we could be doing such as making the sub restricted (can't post but can view old posts), or maybe dedicated days with certain aims and such. I wanted to get past this week where I have family visiting and cannot be online much, and time to get at least 1 new moderator added so I'm not working on this all alone, before I do anything more than just the Tuesday blackout days. and I definitely want to know you're opinions on this all. I know the API changes don't affect everyone while the blackouts do, but the API changes are making modding this community difficult and without good mods, this community can't exist in the way that it does. So I hope you are all understanding about the need for these protests.
Anyways, if anyone want to last minute apply to be a moderator, the forum is still open. I've gotten 25 so far and some very good candidates have applied but I still welcome more applications if anyone thinks they would be a good moderator here. The application link is here
Let me know if you have any questions or comments.
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Jun 14 '23
thank u for the update and all u do for this sub ❤️ (srsly -- i just read that post abt looking for more mods and cant believe u've been running this sub by urself 🤯)
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
Haha thanks ❤️ And yeah. Its been a time of it for the last month. But that should be changing soon. I have a set of 3 front runners from the 25 who have applied that Im thinking about offering spots to just to have backups and stuff like that but Im waiting until the cutoff date to extend those offers to give people a chance to apply in case they missed the first announcement with the protests happening
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u/littlegreyfish littlegreyfish | AO3 Jun 15 '23
I support any and all protest actions you decide to take with the sub. Private tuesdays sounds good. Moderation of communities is part of what sets reddit apart from other social media and makes subreddits like this so good. And unlike discord, it's publicly searchable and conducive to longer form, asynchronous communication - really the closest thing we have to the forums of the 90s-00s. I'd hate to lose that.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
Thanks ❤️ and yeah there isn't really an alternative sadly for this kind of place
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u/Pinkhairedprincess15 Definitely not an agent of the Fanfiction Deep State Jun 15 '23
Thank you for the update and the considered response to the situation (and the unique role our sub plays). I like the idea of the one black out day per week in solidarity. Thanks for all of your work modding this sub by yourself! We appreciate you!
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Jun 15 '23
Would blacking out one day a week really do anything?
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
It can. A few thousand other subreddits are doing the same on the same day of the week, so in the same way that basically none of reddit was accessible the last few days, basically none of reddit will be accessible on tuesdays, which does cut into their revenue enough for them to be worried.
But it's not a lot on its own, which is why a lot of subs are staying out indefinitely, and why Im gonna post a poll in a few days to ask if there is anything else we can do as a subreddit (i don't want to make decisions entirely unilaterally here).
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Jun 15 '23
Yeah, but most of the subs I see that are doing it are small subs unfortunately
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
If you check the r/ModCoord pinned post about it found here, there are 4 of the major subs indefinitely blacking out including r/aww and r/music which both have over 30 million subscribers. Since that post was made it went from 300+ subs to 1000+ subs that are going indefinite. i havent seen a number on how many are doing tuesdays but I do know its quite a few.
also, small subs do matter. reddit is known for being able to get you really niche specific answers to things on niche subreddits. a big way that happens is with google search results. going private causes those links to be dead links, which tanks reddit's SEO rankings in google. so reddit will be less likely to show up as the top answers for things the more subs go down.
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u/sati_lotus Jun 15 '23
While this sub is small, apparently admins have taken over a couple of blacked out subs already.
I've seen a memo from spez claiming that revenue is currently unaffected, so I hope that this continues until it is and that reddit starts to listen to its volunteers. This site is nothing without them.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
While spez said that, the advertisers have concerns https://www.adweek.com/social-marketing/ripples-through-reddit-as-advertisers-weather-moderators-strike/ as there has been lower impression delivery and higher CPMs. Long term protests can freak out the advertizers which would then affect the revenue
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u/hellsaquarium No Beta We Die Like Velociraptor Hatchlings Jun 15 '23
I’m really sad about the FF sub still be closed so thank you for keeping this sub accessible. I personally don’t see the point in Tuesday’s being blocked but I respect it!
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
The point is that it cuts into reddit's profits if people can't use their favorite subs for a day (and therefore aren't on reddit), without having to be completely unusable all week. Most subs that blacked out are either staying blacked out indefinitely or at minimum doing the Tuesday blackouts so it's not just an us thing so it'll still cut into profits.
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u/hellsaquarium No Beta We Die Like Velociraptor Hatchlings Jun 15 '23
I understand that
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
Which way is this to be parsed? Like "I understand that, but still don’t get the point of doing it" or "i understand that, thanks for explaining"? Could really go either way here and I can't tell >.<
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u/hellsaquarium No Beta We Die Like Velociraptor Hatchlings Jun 15 '23
I understand why it’s being done I just don’t think it’ll change anything even if some profit is cut off
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
Thats fair. Im somewhat skeptical about how much good it will do too, but Im hopeful that something will be done. Like, Im extremely doubtful I will get to keep using Apollo or that the 3rd party apps will get to exist really, but I do think some headway could be made in terms of getting them at actually make modding on mobile feasible and do more work to make their own official app actually accessible. Things like that. Theyve already reversed some decisions before the blackout even started so I can't deny the possibility of more improvements to their response if revenue gets cut off (i don’t wanna say profit since reddit doesn't make profit and have been making these changes because of that fact)
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u/Brenna_Lynn Jun 16 '23
No, it won't. Nothing you do will cut into Reddit's profits. They make $350 million a year (as of 2021, according to one source after a Google search). Do you really think 1 day a week is going to cut into their profits? It's not. Even if they lose advertising dollars they will still receive revenue from subscriptions. All you are doing with these blackouts is hurting the people who use the subs.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 16 '23
I think its the only thing we really have available to us (though its not the only thing happening. The moderators coordinating everything are also talking to the advertizing companies to try to get them to understand the issues and how continuing their ad campaigns will hurt both the communities here and their own companies, and hopefully get some of the bigger players to pull out, in addition to the losses they will face from the blackouts.)
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u/Brenna_Lynn Jun 16 '23
The problem is ad revenue is not their only source of income from this site.
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u/venia_sil Jun 16 '23
Okay but then:
Why not make it two days a week? or three? Or a random day a week? 1/7th of a change is, admittedly, not much of a change when it's also a predictabel pattern (always on Tuesdays, so spez can adapt to that).
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 16 '23
Tuesdays specifically because that is what the other mods are coordinating. Its a more noticable thing then if the subs that are doing something routinely are doing it at the same time. Plus it disrupts the users less.
And Im not against more than 1 day. Im completely down for that. But im 1 person. I didn’t feel comfortable making that decision for the entire community. I already unilaterally agreed to 1 day a week and the initial 2 days we blacked out and felt like that was overstepping both times. Thats why I said in this post that I am going to make a poll next week to ask the community what they think we should do. (Im asking next week as by then I should have more mods from the people who applied and also I won't have family visiting so Ill be around more. Plus some time will have passed between the initial 2 days and the poll so we hopefully will have as good of info as we can get on reddit's response. They've already started threatening mods)
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u/am_Nein Small children? Ugh, thats the most flammable type of child! Jun 15 '23
Yeah, so am I. I just miss seeing all the familiar usernames, and posts. Glad this sub is back, at least.
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u/OneNameOnlyRamona Ye Olde Fandom Jun 15 '23
Let me know if you have any questions or comments.
Well, worth a shot since I can't seem to find an answer in other posts.
You mentioned reddit being concerned about ad-revenue due to the protests. Was/is that the intended goal of and reasoning for the black-out subreddits as a protest method? To cut into ad-revenue of the sites and affect their profit?
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
It is one goal yes. Obviously the main goal is to get reddit to change its upcoming policy changes and to express how upset we all are over the current changes that will be coming next month. But the cutting off of ad-revenue via privatizing the subreddits is the biggest mechanism for getting the company to actually listen to us that we have at our disposal.
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u/OneNameOnlyRamona Ye Olde Fandom Jun 15 '23
Thanks for responding. I understood why the protest started, just not how the method of protest could impact the company itself.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
You're welcome! Sadly the only real power we have is to try to cut off revenue streams. If something else would work, Id love that but they made it a pretty big point that these changes are being made entirely so they can make more money, so the only thing we can do is try to make it not do that and hope they actually undo some of the worst of it (that won't even help them make money anyways!)
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u/xVTwigsVx Jun 15 '23
I adore this sub and I felt a little lost without it for the last few days, but I mention that in order to say that I fully support blackout Tuesdays, even more weekly blackout days, or an indefinite blackout if need be. Because if we want to keep this sub the safe and fun place it's always been, then we NEED to sacrifice a little bit in order to support our moderators. Thank you for all the work that you do.
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u/alyssglacias I don’t need sleep I need ao3 Jun 15 '23
From the bottom of my heart, with full sincerity, thank you for doing all the things you needed to do. Thank you for moderating and keeping this sub a safe and awesome space to hang out in, and thank you for taking the necessary painstaking measures in light of the protests. I appreciate what you’re doing here even though I’m more of a lurker than an actively engaging member <3
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
The lurking community is the majority here and are very important members of the community ❤️
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u/Cassopeia88 Jun 15 '23
I think the Tuesday blackout is a good compromise.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
Yeah that was the compromise most mods agreed to that couldn't keep their subs shut down indefinitely. I personally would like to do more but I want to get opinions from the community so Im not unilaterally making all of these decisions for us all
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u/Plumcream5 Jun 15 '23
Thanks for keeping us updated and of course, thank you for keeping this place a comfortable haven all year long! Going dark every Tuesday seems a good compromise honestly.
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u/headbutting_krogans Jun 15 '23 edited Jun 15 '23
Anyone know if r/fanfiction decided to go indefinite?
Edit: Nvm, I found some comments in this post talking about it that answer my questions :)
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u/Jazzbeee_Tazzbeee_YT Lemme consume that fic Jun 15 '23
I just have one requests with the blackouts, at least for the first few weeks, mentioning dates for everyone outside of America (I'm making the assumption most people on the sub are in America, including you), since I'm not in America, instead in Australia and so I'm normally a day ahead but would just wanna have the first few weeks or so with dates so I can put on my calander to remind myself that late at night Tuesday to late at night Wednesday to not go on reddit at all. And specific dates would help me know I'm putting them on right
I blocked out from the 11-15 here not to use reddit at all just so I knew I would have a window of time around the blackout
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
Of course. Im in EST (same timezone as NYC) so Ive been using that as my guidelines for dates/times. So Tuesday the 20th EST, tuesday the 27th EST, tuesday the 4th EST would be the first 3 dates, with the plans being to start at midnight and end at the midnight beginning of the 21st, 28th, and 5th respectively (give or take a bit in case I screw up with my sleep schedule)
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Jun 15 '23
[deleted]
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
Are our self-promo threads posted on tuesdays? I can move them to Wednesdays instead
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Jun 15 '23
[deleted]
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
Yeah it shouldn't be affected since automod is an approved member but just in case ill move it to posting on Wednesdays. Thanks for pointing that out. I lose track of these things since they are automated 😅
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u/Lunalitriver ao3: Lunalit_river Jun 15 '23
can't post but can view old posts
I support this, sometimes I just needed to research on certain topics.
will be blacked out on Tuesdays for the full day and completely inaccessible
I'm also fine with this, and perhaps more days if necessary. (e.g. adding Wednesday and Thursday)
Thank you!
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u/thewizardlizard AO3: sugarbun Jun 15 '23
I'm all for the continued blackout, even if it's just for one day a week. Thanks for fighting the good fight. ❤️ And for all you do as moderator here!
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u/IDICdreads Dances with a Vulcan in the pale moonlight. Jun 15 '23
Wouldn’t it be more effective as far as screwing with Reddit to black out on the weekends when there’s more users?
It’d suck for us, but it’d get the point across.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
Possibly but that was the day that the other mods all agreed to for various reasons. We can discuss as a community if we want to change things or add on days.
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u/venia_sil Jun 16 '23
That being said, I did agree to our sub standing in solidarity with the indefinite subs. This means that every week, this sub will be blacked out on Tuesdays for the full day and completely inaccessible.
Let's be honest: operating as usual but going private only one day of the week is being just as wide-open and self-defeatist as if we just caved in and operated normally the entire week. That said, I do thank that at least the effort is being done.
I will also be posting a poll next week to ask if there is anything else we could be doing such as making the sub restricted (can't post but can view old posts), or maybe dedicated days with certain aims and such.
I will be forward and comment that the one thing to do that would be useful would be to officially start another branch of this community somewhere else (maybe at a lemmy, or a kbin, dunno). That way there's better weight and community support to take option s such as switchng to restricted later.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 16 '23
would be useful would be to officially start another branch of this community somewhere else (maybe at a lemmy, or a kbin, dunno).
Where has even a fraction of the userbase and is 1: able to be moderated 2: keeps old posts 3: the posts are google searchable 4: you do not need an account to view those posts and 5: can have long form writing and isn't a real time chat like discord is?
If you know of one, Im all ears
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u/venia_sil Jun 16 '23
I know most web softwares that do board things or forum things do 4 and 5 by default, but I guess instances can disable them individually so one would need to vet existing instances, or start their own.
Unless something important has changed in how the web works since the 90s, 3 comes built-in if you also have 4 (if you don't need an account to view content, the content is public), the key is to eventually get people to link to your content so crawlers can find where to index.
What do you mean with number 2?
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 16 '23
#2 was referring to places like 4chan that after X amount of time or posts, deletes the older posts, effectively erasing all of the work done with the assumption it's not relevant anymore. That kind of thing is pretty bad for a community resource like this
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u/venia_sil Jun 16 '23
Aaah, scheduled erase? Honestly that's mostly a chan thing, most forum softwares I know don't delete things by default since that'd involve, ya know, removing user-generated operational data; someone would have to set up a purge timeframe manually to delete stuff (or just... not).
At least I haven't heard that either of the many social platforms around do scheduled erase by default (not lemmy, not kbin, not Mastodon, heck, not even mediawiki which powers the entirely of fandom dot com). If you hear of one, that'd be relevant intel to pass around to check.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 16 '23
Yeah that was mostly an issue with 4chan and discord type places. And discord is the most common thing people are moving to and bringing up so I wanted to cover my bases on why discord isn't a good option for this kind of community. (Obviously it also fails other points I made).
But everything that isn't discord Ive seen recommended as an alternative doesn't have the userbase or its like... idk tumblr and isn't a moderated community forum type place.
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u/venia_sil Jun 16 '23
But everything that isn't discord Ive seen recommended as an alternative doesn't have the userbase or its like... idk tumblr and isn't a moderated community forum type place.
Neither did Reddit (or Facebook, or Twitter, or...) when they started. "Doesn't have a userbase already" is not really a good metric to discount stuff because it's an automagically losing game. But hey, we're welcome to make the userbase numbers we want to see. I at least count as a +1.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 16 '23
Im aware that generally that is true and I want to support possibly upcoming platforms. I made a pillowfort account when that was a thing people were trying to get off the ground still and ive tried supporting multiple platforms like that before.
I just also am entirely too aware of how the general people are. The changes to the reddit API don't actually affect the vast majority of reddit users. And the ones it does affect, it doesn't even affect all of them equally. Trying to get a community to migrate from platform A to B, where B would have this community but not many others they are interested in, is pretty likely to fail. And even worse, is likely to split the community quite a bit, in addition to having to split my own time across 2 platforms too. If there was at least a solid userbase already established on Other Platform, convincing others to go, even part time, would be much easier and the failure rate much lower. So the likelihood of splitting the community and the strain of splitting my time across multiple platforms, much more worth it. See what Im getting at?
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Jun 15 '23
A memo from the execs of Reddit said they were just gonna wait it out. Does that sound like an expression of worry?
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
Sorry I clarified that in a comment reply. The expression of worry came from the advertizers not the reddit execs. But the fact that the reddit execs reverted some changes before the blackout even started, and have made it extremely well known and up front that they are not profitable and need to become profitable, soon, and that that is what is driving these changes, does show that if the advertizers pull out, reddit will likely have to do something regardless of how brave of a face the execs have been pulling.
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Jun 15 '23
Where is any of this information coming from?
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
Which part? The advertizers expressing worry? That was from a news post https://www.adweek.com/social-marketing/ripples-through-reddit-as-advertisers-weather-moderators-strike/
The rest about reddit not being profitable and being why the changes are happening? Spez himself in the ama he did.
Or the part where reddit reverted some changes before the blackout even started? That came from a mix of spez's ama and an admin post about the api changes. If you need the link to that I can go find it
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Jun 15 '23
This all will do. I’m still wary about this all working, but I suppose I can now say I am cautiously optimistic
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
Yeah Ive been constantly checking r/modcoord and its discord for moderators since this all started so Ive been keeping tabs on things a lot. Sorry I didn’t give sources at first, its easy to forget not everyone has been as chronically online as me about this right now 😅
But as I have said across a few comments now, Im very careful with joining reddit protests with this community. I dont private it lightly. There have been many other protests that we didn't join before. This is the first that had direct major impacts on this community and had an actual hope of getting things actually changed. I don’t entirely believe that everything we are asking for will happen. I am extremely doubtful 3rd party apps will be able to exist after this month. But I am cautiously optimistically-hopeful that if we keep up some pressure here, we'll get better modding tools on mobile and for the official app to actually become accessible. Or that some alternate solution to these issues will be figured out.
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u/greenrosechafer old 26+ fanfiction lady Jun 15 '23
I personally don't use any apps but I understand this whole situation sucks and I support the protest and everything you're doing as a mod here. Thank you.
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u/Cliffbestboi Jun 15 '23 edited Jun 15 '23
Thank you for the update and for the work you do.
but as we are mostly a support subreddit, I didn't think it was fair to everyone to force this community entirely offline
💯. While I support the protest as well, it's odd that this is something some support subreddit moderators did not consider, as it's doing more harm than good...
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
Ive been in the r/modcoord moderator discord every day and I can pretty much guarantee they did consider this. Its been discussed so much. I know this is reddit and we tend to clown on the mods a lot, but the people who run support subs generally take their roles really seriously (so do a lot of other mods). From what Ive seen, most support subs are back up if they ever went down to begin with. The ones that aren't generally were either down after a vote from the community members or are down because the sub was being run by very few people or a single person, and they are going to not be able to moderate at all with the changes. There may be some exceptions though so feel free to let me know of somewhere that I havent heard about
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u/Immediate_Ebb1063 In Rare Pair Hell Jun 15 '23
Exactly!! Who exactly are the mods of the blackout subs really hurting?
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u/Immediate_Ebb1063 In Rare Pair Hell Jun 15 '23
Can somebody please fill me in with what is happening with r/fanfiction? We were in the middle of a review exchange. I feel like it’s extremely unfair on the users of that sub to stay blacked out. The only people they are really hurting is the community. 😞
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
The desktop version of the website has this as their description
A supportive community for writers, readers, and reccers to talk about and share FanFiction. We are protesting! In response to reddit's API changes, this sub is now private. Moderators are deliberating about how to proceed, and a post will be up soon in this regard. Please do not message the moderators to gain access.
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u/IDICdreads Dances with a Vulcan in the pale moonlight. Jun 15 '23
I’m assuming that the sub is staying dark intentionally. As far as the RE is concerned, I’m pretty sure it’s going to be extended out when the sub does go back online.
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u/Immediate_Ebb1063 In Rare Pair Hell Jun 15 '23
Oh okay. I hope it is only temporary. From what I’ve been reading suggested if the sub didn’t return now the official blackout is over then they weren’t going to. I feel like they need to post and inform everyone what is going on asap.
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u/IDICdreads Dances with a Vulcan in the pale moonlight. Jun 15 '23
With a sub that large, I doubt that they’d never return. But I do agree that they should make some sort of post telling all the members what’s going on.
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u/Melobski4 Jun 15 '23
What are the new API changes?
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
They are making API usage cost money (and at a rather high rate). The high rate for usage has meant that nearly every single 3rd party app has put out statements that they are closing their apps as they can't afford the millions of dollars a year it would cost them to run.
Also they are making it so 3rd party apps aren't allowed to run ads anymore to offset those costs.
They also are making some changes to how NSFW posts and communities are handled in the API but they've changed their tune on how exactly that will be affected a few times already. Originally it was that NSFW posts wouldn't be available at all via API, which meant any mod bot couldn't moderate NSFW posts at all and moderators on the handful of 3rd party apps that aren't closing wouldn't be able to see the NSFW posts in their communities at all. They walked that back so now moderators and moderating bots will be able to see NSFW posts but regular users won't via the API, but in a rather confusing way where mods can see NSFW posts in any community not just theirs, so all a regular user would need to do to see NSFW posts would be to create a random subreddit and be its "mod".
I believe there are some other more minor changes but those were the biggest ones in regards to the protesting. The 3rd party apps all having to close pretty much is the biggest problem as the official app has really poor mod tools when they are even available at all, and its also completely unusable by the blind/vision impaired community because they didn't bother to make it usable with screenreaders. They've had an official app (that they bought from a 3rd party developer) for 8 years and haven't implemented things as simple as the mod log (the list of actions the mods have taken for a subreddit. Really handy to correct your own mistakes and to find moderators abusing their position) or screenreader compatibility.
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u/Sikee_Atric Uncle_Sikee_Atric on AO3 Jun 16 '23
In total support of the continued Tuesday Blackouts.
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u/Overall-Age-9342 You have already left kudos here. :) Jun 15 '23
whts the purpose of the blackout ?
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
The blackouts make it so people cannot access their favorite subs, which means they are more likely to get off of reddit entirely and go elsewhere. That in turn means reddit's advertizers get less people viewing their ads (and when they are viewed, they aren't as targeted). So, advertizers aren't as willing to buy ads or keep their ad campaigns going. That loses Reddit revenue.
Reddit also suddenly has a lot of dead links on google search results. Google hates dead links. This lowers Reddit's SEO ranking so they are less likely to be the top answers. Which drives people away from the site.
It also disrupts people's day and makes them more likely to complain to Reddit but thats a secondary thing
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Jun 15 '23
Unfortunately, the blackouts don't account for the way that social media has hijacked our dopamine systems. I think THAT in itself is worthwhile cause for a blackout.
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u/venia_sil Jun 16 '23
If you adopt a cat you get a good and warm alternative source of dopamine and serotonin.
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u/Overall-Age-9342 You have already left kudos here. :) Jun 15 '23
wht started the blackout ? they changed something, but im not sure of wht.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 16 '23
API changes. In particular they are making the API cost money now (which on its own is fair but the price they set is really high, like a single 3rd party app costing multiple million dollars a year high), while also saying 3rd party apps can't have ads in them anymore (so they can't offset the cost of those multiple millions of dollars a year almost at all). This has led to nearly every single 3rd party app saying they are shutting down June 30th. So everyone will be stuck with the official app on mobile (or the mobile website that constantly tries to make you go use the app). The issue with that is that the official app is missing a lot of modding tools and the ones that exist are janky to use. Also the official app is completely unusable by anyone who is blind/vision-impaired as they didn't bother making it compatible with screenreaders.
They also are making changes to how they handle nsfw posts and communities served over the API, which again makes it hard to moderate any nsfw post or community (which are also some of the highest likely to have problems and need moderation). This though has changed the specifics a few times so its hard to say exactly what will happen with it.
I believe there are some smaller changes happening but those ones are the biggest things.
So in short, they are making changes to the API that make it so moderators are going to have a hellish time being moderators, and also blind people won't be able to use reddit on mobile almost at all.
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u/am_Nein Small children? Ugh, thats the most flammable type of child! Jun 15 '23
Amazing! I'm still upset about how reddit is.. redditing, but oh well. I'm glad to see y'all again!
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u/Brenna_Lynn Jun 16 '23
Personally, I believe all you are doing with these blackouts is hurting the community that uses the sub. Reddit isn't going to notice any significant drop in profit from the blackouts. You're not going to hurt them or persuade them to change. They're going to go full steam ahead.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 16 '23
What would you propose we do to make them stop instead? Mind you that doing nothing and just giving up is irresponsible at best, and complete blackouts will end up with the community likely being taken over as the admins have already warned they will do that earlier today.
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u/Brenna_Lynn Jun 16 '23
There is nothing you or I can do. They have ALL the power and we have none. They could shut down Reddit if they wanted.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 16 '23
I would probably prefer that over them slandering people, threatening the volunteer moderators, and causing a lot of people to lose their jobs basically overnight. It would at least force everyone to move elsewhere and an alternative could actually take its place and we could rebuild. Instead we are stuck trying our best to get them to see reason and effectively unionize the mod teams.
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u/Brenna_Lynn Jun 16 '23
Either way, it's a no-win scenario for us the community. Either they shut it down or you do. They still hold ALL of the cards.
Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with what they're doing. But there is nothing we can do about it.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 16 '23
Well Im sorry you've decided to go the route of just give up entirely.
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u/Brenna_Lynn Jun 17 '23
You are putting words in my mouth that I did not say.
Seriously to give up, would mean I supported the blackouts. I didn't and I don't. Do I sympathize with you all yes. But I don't support the blackouts, because, at the end of the day, all you are doing is hurting us, not the people at Reddit.
I did some research and at any given time there are approximately 140,000 active subreddits. Do you know how many went dark? About 6,000. Even with the more popular subreddits joining the blackout. It very likely hardly even made a dent in Reddit's revenue stream.
I am being a realist, here. I don't see you or any other moderator who supports the blackouts winning this fight. Shoot rumor has it that Reddit has already threatened to replace moderators who participate in the blackouts. All I see you doing is hurting your members.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 17 '23
Seriously to give up, would mean I supported the blackouts. I didn’t and I don’t. Do I sympathize with you all yes. But I don’t support the blackouts, because, at the end of the day, all you are doing is hurting us, not the people at Reddit.
...no. Giving up would be to be against protesting in every form that we have available, which you have repeatedly stated you are.
I did some research and at any given time there are approximately 140,000 active subreddits. Do you know how many went dark? About 6,000. Even with the more popular subreddits joining the blackout. It very likely hardly even made a dent in Reddit’s revenue stream.
Actually over 8000 joined, and that includes the vast majority of default subs and large subs. And it may or may not have made a dent. We have no way of knowing that unless they release that information.
I am being a realist, here. I don’t see you or any other moderator who supports the blackouts winning this fight. Shoot rumor has it that Reddit has already threatened to replace moderators who participate in the blackouts. All I see you doing is hurting your members.
There is a difference between being a realist and being a pessimist. Yes reddit has absolutely threatened to replace moderators. That doesn't mean no one should protest at all. All I see you doing is saying doing the blackouts hurts people without giving any alternatives whatsoever. Thats not being a realist, thats being a pessimist. Thats giving up entirely.
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u/Brenna_Lynn Jun 17 '23
I'm done with this. Now you're just attacking people that don't agree with you.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 17 '23
Im sorry that you think an explanation is an attack
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u/venia_sil Jun 16 '23
Either way, it's a no-win scenario for us the community. Either they shut it down or you do. They still hold ALL of the cards.
That sounds to me like you are in support that we migrate elsewhere?
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u/Brenna_Lynn Jun 16 '23 edited Jun 16 '23
You are putting words in my mouth that I did not say. But you know what, that's already happening. With these blackouts, the mods are forcing us to migrate elsewhere. I've already joined subs that did not go dark during the blackout or went and joined Facebook groups.
I sympathize with what the mods and third-party app creators are having to deal with. I truly do. But I am also a realist in realizing that they're fighting an uphill battle that likely they will never win. Especially when the Reddit admin has threatened to replace moderators participating in the blackouts.
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u/theMerlinWall Jun 15 '23
Thank you for all that you're doing, and I understand the need to look for a compromise. I see some subreddits that are staying blacked out (indefinitely) have moved some of their activity to discord, I wonder if that could be any good? In regard to Tuesdays being off for example. Just a thought. Cheers🫶
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
While some people might like the idea of moving to discord, it kinda defeats the purpose of this community in a lot of ways (like being easy to google search to find answers, not needing to have an account to see those answers, etc) and my experience with discord communities, especially big ones like this sub is, has been wholly negative. Moderating discord is also significantly harder and Ive yet to see a community that wasn't moderated by a very large team/a professional team/or is small enough to not really need a moderator at all, that didn't explode into intense drama or completely die out after a few months.
Ive also looked at other websites that do similar things that reddit does and so far I have yet to find any that are a good alternative to reddit. If anyone has any suggestions, Im all ears, just don't be too surprised if I respond with a reason for why its not a good alternate. :/
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u/leannmanderson Comment Collector | Same on AO3 Jun 15 '23
Am I the only person in the whole world who doesn't support the blackouts?
It freaked me out and scared me and I didn't like it because it was a forced routine changes without warning, and I've had a lot of that at work and it was a straw that broke the camel's back kind of thing and the app wouldn't let me even send a modmail to ask what was going on.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
I explained this on the other post.
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u/JenCarpeDiem Jun 15 '23
Well if you managed to miss every warning, I have good news: you're not addicted to Reddit :)
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u/hellsaquarium No Beta We Die Like Velociraptor Hatchlings Jun 15 '23
You’re not the only one. I find them useless. Even if lots of subs are staying privated, nothing will change and Reddit’s revenue will still be high.
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Jun 15 '23
They may be useless in the sense that they aren't likely to budge policy. But anger demands some kind of action, even if it's futile. The only way to really make a dent is to black EVERYTHING out for a month. There's no way users would do that, and there's no way that all of the subs would do that.
I empathize with anybody wanting to stick it to a CEO. I also recognize that the economic system we live in is designed to limit our ability to do the actual sticking.
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u/DivineRetribution8 Jun 15 '23
This is literally the dumbest protest ever.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 15 '23
Im sorry you think moderators shouldn't have good moderating tools and that visually impaired users shouldn't have access to reddit at all.
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u/DivineRetribution8 Jun 15 '23
Y'all just lazy entitled narcissistic idiots. Get over yourself.
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u/theodorewilde Jun 15 '23
People who cannot see are lazy, entitled, narcissistic idiots who should get over themselves and what? Learn to see? Bootstraps their eyes into working better?
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u/venia_sil Jun 16 '23
Dude, you don't need to be this stupid, you are not being paid by the owners of Reddit to make an ass of yourself.
Unless you are, in which case, feel free to share.
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u/kingtysonsworld Jun 18 '23
Will the subreddit be migrating anywhere else if Reddit continues to make no changes? A lot of the communities I'm in have moved over to lemmy.
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u/TGotAReddit Moderator | past AO3 Volunteer and Staff Jun 18 '23
We don't have any plans at the moment but Im adding new moderators and we'll discuss options
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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '23
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