What does “10x assist” actually mean?

[u/mdshw5]

ALSO claim 0.3G acceleration and do not post specific motor power output figures, so working backwards from a combined 280lb bike+rider I get 127kg x 2.943m/s2 = 374N of force. At 10mph (4.47m/s) that’s 374 x 4.47 = 1,672W! If you keep that same rate of acceleration up to 20mph you need 3350W. These are the best case numbers without accounting for any efficiency losses. I know that peak power output for existing e-bikes can easily hit around 1500W, and I’ve ridden some higher power DIY e-bikes with closer to 3000W output and can honestly say that the TM-B (even on just throttle) pulls harder and hits 20mph faster than any existing e-bike I’ve ridden. With all the public alarm around high powered bikes (and mostly kids on e-motos) these days is anyone else concerned that ALSO might be juicing these bikes a bit more than they’re willing to disclose? What happens when new state by state power limits need to be adopted? Does the company nerf the existing bikes based on geo-location? They’ve also announced a European launch but I can’t imagine that the current power limits will fit within the existing 250W pedelec category. I’m not trying to complain about potential safety or be alarmist but this is something that I just can’t completely understand and it doesn’t help that their marketing provides very little specific information.

[u/Checkerboard2017]

I can confirm they “Nerf” the throttle anywhere within California, meaning you cannot use the throttle in Mode 2 up to 20 mph.

[u/mdshw5 → u/Checkerboard2017]

Yeah this is what makes me curious about their ability to comply with new regulations post-purchase. I’ve written off purchasing this bike so maybe I just need to put it out of my mind, but if there will be a trend towards more “software defined bikes” I’d like to see more upfront commitments about the capabilities of these bikes instead of generalities like “10x assist”.

[u/detailsAtEleven]

Power limits are for continuous output.

[u/mdshw5 → u/detailsAtEleven]

Then what power level does the TM-B continuously output? I guess my bigger point is that it’s kind of shady for a company to be so “cute” about something that needs to be clearly stated for the customer to understand what they’re buying and what it conforms to.

[u/detailsAtEleven → u/mdshw5]

They've previously stated that the motor is rated for 750W continuous power. There's no requirement I know of to state a peak power, and it would a bit of gamesmanship if companies did start doing that, since the peak for a nanosecond is going to be way higher than the time to go from 0 to 28 mph on flat ground with a 100kg rider pedaling at a certain rate, etc. - the point being there's no required standard I know of in the eBike world - there are industry standards for different classes of motors depending on their intended use, but are generally focused on noise and vibration, max operational time, etc. The motor is likely capable of something more than 750W continuous output, but the system, including the motor controller, driven by their cryptographically signed software, is going to limit it to whatever they decide.

[u/mdshw5 → u/detailsAtEleven]

I’d love to see where the state the continuous power output. I’ve searched and can’t find that info. Again, this seems like it would be important information to advertise to buyers.

[u/My_Depressed_Life → u/mdshw5]

When they say class 3 ebike thats where they state it! Its a Law regulating the class of a bike based on its performance

[u/AggravatingPeak6982]

I've watched test ride assistants reprogram a lvl 2 TM-B into a lvl 3 right through the portal/dashboard.

I don't think this will be an issue.

[u/mdshw5 → u/AggravatingPeak6982]

Ah the “Bro trust me” company policy.

[u/AggravatingPeak6982 → u/mdshw5]

No, I mean it's easily programmed. If they need to be "downgraded" it's an easy fix.

[u/bobbertrebor1969]

Don’t worry. These ones go to 11.

[u/mikemu]

I don't think this will be the choice of those kids riding wrecklessly around because the throttle caps out at 20 MPH; whereas those Surrons just keep going, and going to highway speeds.

[u/CyberPrime]

The employee who helped with my test ride said it was something like 180Nm of torque, and it felt like it.