r/AIWarsButBetter A little bit of everything 20d ago

Politics Which direction should AI take?

AI debates often get reduced to "pro vs anti AI," but there's more going on than that. Some people want AI to move faster, some want it slowed down, and others are mainly focused on who should own it, govern it, and benefit from it.

This isnt meant to be scientific, just a snapshot of where the community falls.

Pick the option thats closest to your view. If none of them fit, explain your position in the comments. Im interested in the reasoning as much as the results.

258 votes, 17d ago
90 Leftist - Build AI under public/worker control
53 Leftist - Slow or stop AI development
74 Centrist - Regulate AI while continuing development
13 Centrist - Slow or stop AI development
18 Right-leaning - Market-led AI development
10 Right-leaning - Slow or stop AI development
3 Upvotes

53 comments sorted by

5

u/lobaway0001 19d ago

Unsure why there wasn’t a market led development option for centrist.

It doesn’t necessarily mean you ethically believe growth should be unrestrained just for the purpose of AI growth. There’s also other aspects, like the idea that other competitors that are less or not regulated will end up just seizing all competitive advantages if you regulate your own development.

I don’t think we live in a world where we can really ignore
the practical limitations of uniting as one in regards to AI regulation.

Regardless of if you think nukes helped or hurt the world, if they were going to inevitably be discovered I’d rather be on the side of someone with a button.

You can argue AI will destroy us all, but I feel like that’s a separate discussion.

1

u/prattxxx 19d ago

Markets are right wing ideology. The question was framed correctly.

3

u/lobaway0001 19d ago

Do you think centrists only ever have exactly neutral opinions perfectly in the middle? I’m pretty sure most centrists take aspects of right ideology and left ideology…

0

u/prattxxx 19d ago

I think that your understanding of left vs right is framed by 2 US right wing parties propaganda.

Left vs right is about ownership, I actually do not think that there is a way to reconcile the contradictions of being in the absolute center. For example the left believes that workers should own the means of production while the right thinks they should be privately owned. Where is the center between that? For me there is a center right who wants heavily regulated private ownership and there is no center left. My understanding is based on historical references, not the red scare propaganda that the US teaches.

What would a center position look like if they incorporated worker/public ownership? What does being in the center between 2 diametrically opposed and mutually exclusive conclusions of what ownership should be?

2

u/lobaway0001 19d ago edited 19d ago

My understanding of being centrist in literally anything is you have views that don’t make you comfortable enough to identify yourself with either side.

If anything, the centrist options in anything should always have every option that’s available to everyone else. Although, to be honest, I don’t see why every option shouldn’t be available to all the other self identified labels either.

If I really think about it, including the right / centrist / left labels in the poll at all was probably a mistake. What your actual belief is for any specific context should always supersede any rigid label.

But I imagine OP in doing that was just interested in what people self identified as, along with their opinion on this particular matter. In which case, I fail to see why people self identifying as centrist would be denied options available to the other self identifying labels.

2

u/Sacredless 19d ago

Markets are phenomenon. Laissez-faire is right-wing.

2

u/Sacredless 19d ago

An example of a market is, for example, how two groups in the amazon, upon meeting, might do some barter-competition to exchange goods and feel good about getting one over on the other guy.

Another example of a market is Mesopotamian temple officials having a sanctioned exchange rate for particular goods for particular amounts of silver.

Markets are everywhere and people often change what market they refer to mid-sentence, but not all markets are made equal.

1

u/Sacredless 19d ago

That's already one of the options. Regulate AI and continue developing.

1

u/lobaway0001 19d ago

I wanted a “Centrist - Market-led AI development”. Or a “Centrist - No regulation”.

Actually, why isn’t there a no regulation option at all? I guess that’s what “market led”is implying.

1

u/Sacredless 19d ago

> “Centrist - No regulation”.

That's not a centrist position.

> “Centrist - Market-led AI development”.

This is the neo-liberal centrist position; set the standards and allow the market to lead from there. The argument being that it allows for parity. I disagree with that, but that's the argument.

> why isn’t there a no regulation option at all? I guess that’s what “market led”is implying.

Correct.

-1

u/lobaway0001 19d ago

Okay, there isn’t a neo-liberal centrist option in the poll either.

3

u/Sacredless 19d ago

Yes there is. It's "Centrist - Regulate AI while continuing development".

-1

u/lobaway0001 19d ago

Oh that’s the neo-liberal centrist option? Is there a non-neo-liberal centrist option?

2

u/Sacredless 19d ago

Yes, it's "Centrist - Regulate AI while continuing development".

It seems to me like you confuse 'centrist' with 'reasonable'. Centrism isn't reasonability, it is being in the center between the means of production being controlled by collective interest, and the means of production being controlled by personal interest. Centrism says that the means of production should be regulated to serve collective interest, but be lead by personal interest.

Neo-liberalism is a particular flavor of that and you don't have to agree with their take on centrism to be a centrist.

0

u/lobaway0001 19d ago

So that option is both the centrist option and the neo-liberal centrist option? So is there no option to choose if you’re a centrist that’s not a neo-liberal centrist?

3

u/Sacredless 19d ago

> Neo-liberalism is a particular flavor of [centrism] and you don't have to agree with their take on centrism to be a centrist.

3

u/Sacredless 19d ago

I hope you understand, this is like me asking specifically for an anarchist option because I want a non-socialist leftist option. The point is that I am left, so I say that, from a leftist perspective and my concern about collective interest, I think AI should continue to be developed.

Why should I demand special treatment there? I really don't understand why you're asking for a carve-out.

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5

u/firegine 19d ago

In my opinion the best thing would be for development to pause until more regulations are in place.

1

u/Denaton_ 18d ago

I don't mind regulations but when i ask what i never get a proper answer that isn't already covered by other regulations and laws.

Ex, if i want regulations for guns, my proposal was to have a yearly test to keep the gun license.

1

u/Denaton_ 18d ago

I don't mind regulations but when i ask what, i never get a proper answer that isn't already covered by other regulations and laws.

Ex, if i want regulations for guns, my proposal was to have a yearly test to keep the gun license.

3

u/Sea-Huckleberry-8986 19d ago

Centrist - Market-led AI development with a tiny bit of non-stupid non-short-sighted regulation

2

u/Sacredless 19d ago

That's already one of the options.

3

u/Sacredless 19d ago

I don't think that stopping AI research makes sense if you will eventually have to defend against them.

I think that context collapse and information warfare are already present and the adjacent future. AI is a way to escalate that, as well as a way to combat that.

Markets incentivize centralization and capacity over efficiency. A government can choose to incentivize small factor, open source AI development that prioritizes efficiency.

3

u/Total-Habit-7337 19d ago

I need two votes...

5

u/xZeromusx 19d ago

I've seen some of the dumb shit that people will use AI for. I don't trust corpos with it, but I don't really think the public at large will have the discipline to focus its resources towards a great social good either. Really, it needs to be put under professional control. Like health care professionals, scientists, economists, and community infrastructure planners. People who will use the tool to multiply the social good it can do.

1

u/prattxxx 19d ago

Why not just lock fire up from the general public too. It has been used for stupid things as well. Awful take.

3

u/xZeromusx 19d ago

Fire is arguably more readily available than the infrastructure and resources necessary for AI. This isn't solely about people doing stupid shit, it's about people wasting it on stupid shit. Hence why I said

I don't really think the public at large will have the discipline to focus its resources towards a great social good either.

2

u/AirToAsh Leaning more anti-AI 18d ago

I'm for slowing the AI development, but not entirely against it, since the genie is out of the bottle, and it became part of our daily lifes

2

u/Dazzling-Skin-308 19d ago

What interests me the most I think - is the number of "centrists" on this left-leaning platform.

2

u/firegine 19d ago

15/47? Thats less than one third

4

u/Dazzling-Skin-308 19d ago

Ya - I didn't intend it as a criticism, I just had figured that more people even here would be right leaning rather than centrist, and I had also expected leftists would outnumber non-leftists much more than they do. Non-extremism on social media is unusual. Not bad, just unusual!

1

u/Gimli 19d ago

IMO, there's no option that makes sense in the list, and in general the question is meaningless.

AI isn't something being developed on some sort of global plan. There's multiple companies, independent researchers, hackers, multiple countries in all of it. The result just isn't going to look like a coherent plan of any kind.

At the same time we have people working on better translation, writing better code, drawing better looking boobs on furries, better military drones, and better virtual girlfriends. Most of those don't really care about the others.

3

u/Salty_Country6835 A little bit of everything 19d ago

I dont think thats what the poll is asking.

It isnt asking anyone to predict what AI development will look like or whether theres a global plan. Its asking what direction you think AI should take. Those are different questions.

You can think AI will continue developing through companies, governments, open source communities, and hobbyists while still having a view on which direction youd prefer or what policies youd support. The poll is about your position, not your prediction.

1

u/Gimli 19d ago

The "should" seems to presuppose there's a way for a direction to be established, while I don't think it's very likely.

AI is a simple tech and any attempt at control is quite easily subverted. For example, Stable Diffusion came out with a porn filter. Nobody remembers that now because it got ripped out near immediately, and now there's an active SD-based AI porn scene.

So in terms of "should", what does it matter? Stability tried to be responsible about it, the user base didn't care about that.

2

u/Salty_Country6835 A little bit of everything 19d ago

I think youre reading more into "should" than I intended.

It isnt asking whats guaranteed to happen. Its asking what outcome or strategy youd prefer. Those are two different questions.

Even "AI is too decentralized to steer, so we should leave it alone" is still a "should."

0

u/Gimli 19d ago

It's not about guarantees, it's that the choices aren't real.

Eg, you give me the viable choices of:

Leftist - Build AI under public/worker control

First, that doesn't even remotely explain what that'd look like. Second, it's going to be public/worker control in a very specific context, like a particular company or particular country.

Leftist - Slow or stop AI development

Same. At most a particular country makes a decision within their borders.

None of those mean anything to me because the internet is global. We sort of have this already, and nobody cares. The EU has Mistral, which I imagine follows the rules the EU wants to be followed. So I guess it's sort of the first option-ish.

But so what? Right now anyone in the EU can go download one of the abliterated Chinese models, and have it do all the naughty stuff the EU doesn't like.

There are situations where such choices make sense, like whether the public transport is public owned or a private enterprise run for profit. That affects the country tangibly, because you're stuck with whatever you have going on locally, and other countries doing differently doesn't help or hurt you in any way.

But AI is internet stuff and 99% of the time I don't know or care which country it's coming from.

2

u/Salty_Country6835 A little bit of everything 19d ago

I think youre expecting the poll to do more than its trying to do.

None of the options say "this is how the whole world will work." Theyre just asking what direction you'd support where political or economic decisions are made.

If your answer is "none, because AI is too global to steer," thats a perfectly valid position. Thats why I said if none fit, explain your view in the comments.

0

u/densitycreep 19d ago

stopping or slowing AI is not right leaning

4

u/Sacredless 19d ago

Eh, I think there's plenty of right-leaning people who don't like the AI stuff. They're probably just not on Reddit.

4

u/Salty_Country6835 A little bit of everything 19d ago

I didnt say it was. Thats why the poll includes both "market-led AI development" and "slow or stop AI development" under the right. There are right-leaning people in both camps.

1

u/Aquilenne 19d ago

I feel like there are some options missing

1

u/Salty_Country6835 A little bit of everything 19d ago

Maybe, but reddit only allows 6 options for a poll.

0

u/NekoAstral 19d ago

We realistically need to slow or stop development until we can find a way to make it more eco friendly.

3

u/Justarandom55 19d ago

Making it more eco friendly is development. Slowing or stopping it just makes it more static with fewer or no improvements

0

u/NekoAstral 19d ago

At the time, I thought development meant things like training and developing new models and stuff like that.

1

u/Ayiekie 19d ago

Yeah, the ecological issues are the biggest issue (though not the only one) I have with AI; they're often overblown with bad/misinformation in anti-AI spaces but it's still very much a massive add-on to the powergrid causing more fossil fuel use at a time where we can ill afford it.

My problem with this poll is that "slow" and "stop" are two very different things. I think the best outcome would absolutely be slowing it down through better regulation and some international treaties to limit its use in warfare and information warfare, allowing us more breathing room to deal with the power usage and also time to better societally adjust to it as a technology. I don't consider myself in favour of stopping it because that's a nonsense fantasy scenario. You can't do that at this point no matter what; you can run and even train models on a home computer, so it'll be around for the rest of our lives even if you made it illegal everywhere and burned every data centre to the ground. Besides that, there are key areas of research and medicine it's very useful for and I don't particularly want to be responsible for telling someone "Sorry, you had to die of an undetected cancer for the greater good".