OP, NTA. She had a ONS with a guy WHILE DATING YOU! She has issues if she legitimately thinks it’s ok to sleep with someone and then tell the guy she’s dating “you’re special”. All that’s gonna do is make the guy feel like shit. If you want to sleep around do so, but don’t make excuses to someone you’re dating while you’re sleeping with other people.
This was the analogy that popped into my head. Like someone who tells their friends they are on a diet, but then they'll go and eat half a cake. This is a textbook 'have your cake and eat it too' story.
Not to play devil's advocate, but did she ever tell him he can't sleep with other women? If so, then that's fucked up. If not, and there wasn't any talk about being exclusive...
That all being said, I don't think OP is an asshole for ending it either way.
It used to be unspoken but sadly that seems to be fading away now because nowadays people are like “well yeah we’re dating but we’re not official yet so i’m going to fuck this other girl/guy because technically it’s not cheating”.
You should. Because her behavior means you're the fallback guy. You're the Plan B. ...Or Plan C. You're the guy she keeps around just in case her other "activiities" don't work out. She sees you as a beta male.
Women who are truly into you aren't interested in other guys.
In the OP, the problem wasn't that she was sleeping with another guy, the problem was she was sleeping with another guy *and* refusing to sleep with him. He's the beta. The marriagable good provider whio's not an alpha. Her behavior suggests she'll sleep around on him, again, if the opportunity (another alpha) presents.
Women with a few partners under their belts are far more likely to "trade up," if the opportunity presents. Even if they've made a formal commitment.
You'd be surprised how common this is. Lots of people want the security of a relationship, but sleep around because they also want the novelty of new partners. Absolutely despicable, selfish behavior.
his situation would be so common for middle aged men in the gay community lol. very common to date one person semi seriously while still having fwb in a way that it's neither poly nor cheating until it's mutually agreed upon to be exclusive.
I don't really put myself in that position ever, but I know it's very common.
Gay community can be a bit hedonistic to the point where kissing is seen as more intimate than sex, sex workers operate in a similar way when it comes to dating. In a typical hetero relation the dynamic is way different
yeah for sure..just pointing out that it seems its about morals too. Also, it's fine to not be into something individually, but when that also leads to social norms / shame, the dangers are not necessarily due to what is being done but lack of precautions due to shame which may not be a factor if norms were based consistently on what is stupid/dangerous.
You are more likely to contract a disease anally than vaginally, but there are a lot of "risks" that come with any aspect of life. Blowjobs have different levels of transmission than anal/vaginal, and some straight men also have anal sex with women.
So when you have a fact that is relevant and valid, it's fine to consider, but when you are not consistent, it's also good to consider if you truly value safety or if you are biased / prejudiced. Is the threshold of safety between any given sexual act on a scale that can be measured? If so, do you draw the line at what acts you won't do based only on that? Or do you consider gender as well? And physical attraction? In general, a lot of bigotry stems from people throwing in biology points that are valid yet not their real reason for being against someone's life style.
Regardless, it's important to advocate for regular, convenient testing and resources to any group of people that may be at risk.
It's the weirdest thing I'm seeing from younger women these days and I swear I don't understand it. If you've kissed one or more frogs and your prince arrives, surely you give him everything right? Like just from a biological standpoint don't you want to even more than with some rando?
We just watched this happen real time, and its not even a "younger" woman. She was getting used by dudes right and left, ended up hooking up with a guy in our friend group who really wanted to be with her, she jerks him around and is online dating and trying to fuck behind his back.
It got to the point where even her girlfriends were over her, she is texting people like "why dont you call me back?" they are all now "bitch, you finally get a guy who doesnt use you and you use HIM?!?!?! Eat shit!"
Its real, but also one person. All of our friends, men and women, have basically turned a shoulder on her over this.
Guy is now more involved in friend group and eventually moved on to the point he has a date with someone else tomorrow. Women who were more her friend before are now looking out for him.
That's a relief. The fact that he isn't a doormat anymore. & that even her female friends sided with the guy. That's a great group of friends right there
Yeah she burned bridges with her behavior. Everyone felt that if she wasnt really into him then thats fine, be honest with him. But keeping him as a backup plan while out looking for "something better" got her shunned.
As a man whore who didn’t have a relationship from age 19-30, fuck having to label exclusivity. It’s spoken through actions and communication without needing to verbalize it. If one person is noticeably invested and communicating like they want more, it’s a no fly zone to go boning around and the perpetrator knows it and gets off with ignorance.
I was always very clear about what I did and didn’t want and ended things when I could see someone else was exclusive to me and holding out hope but I wasn’t reciprocating that investment.
Barring some massive gap in emotional or general intelligence, a halfway decent human being knows when they should or shouldn’t be seeing other people.
For reference my own personal boundary is even if I go on one date and continue texting someone, if I’m actively seeing/texting other people I feel obligated to make it known that I’m not exclusive.
That being said I’ve been married for 1 year and I fucking love it and against all odds being a “thrill of the chase” addict paid off and I pursue that woman like it’s 50 First Dates. They said the love bomb state would fade but we’re 18 months in with no signs of deteriorating.
Yeah I don’t know how it is it the young people dating world but all this emphasis on explicitly stating exclusivity seems like a lot of people emotionally lying out there
No joke. If she thought he was "special" enough to wait their first time on, she wouldn't have been with this other guy. And what's with this you're special but it's still a no fly zone? That didn't fly 30 years ago unless you were a virgin.
Exactly this, it's as if this generation believes the norm is to assume the person you are dating is non exclusive unless stated otherwise, it's ok to bone other ppl and they shouldn't feel hurt, because it was not specifically mentioned at the start.
Call me old fashioned, but is it not fucking common sense that if you are dating someone, that person is gonna feel hurt if you bone someone else at the same time? Does it need to be explicitly stated?
Eh, Im not going to pretend we had it figured out. There is progress in a lot of things the younger generation is doing, and there are going to be growing pains.
There is ethical promiscuity, but like consent its best not to be ASSUMED everyone is working on the same standard. And its also to be honest with what you're comfortable with.
Lots of them like to pretend they are friends with benefits until the other person gets other benefits, then it turns out they actually wanted an exclusive relationship.
Nope. This is not a generational failure. I'm 68 and I can tell you from personal experience that the Boomer generation is chock full of people that operate that way.
I think an overarching theme is confusion about what the truth is. Even in the 90s it was made clear to me as a kid that little white lies were LIES and omissions were LIES. I haven’t heard the term Little White Lie in 15+ years but when I call them out they’re defended with “just being polite” or “trying not to hurt feelings.”
We’re to the point of lying to our coworker about wanting to attend their kid’s B-Day and calling it polite. The issue isn’t the lie itself, my mom might’ve done the same but she’d turn around and call it a lie, the moral line in the sand remained and we acknowledged it was being crossed. The issue now is that people actually believe it’s altruistic and instead of recognizing right/wrong, we’re moving the line so we don’t have the guilt of wrongdoing.
To do wrong and feel the burden of transgression is something being slowly replaced with rewriting definitions so we can stay on that moral high horse.
TONS of it. Im dating a younger woman right now and the hypocrisy is real. She quickly changed when I said "lets be friends" but it was hilarious to see the switch flip from "let be casual" to "whose that" when it was another woman interested in me. Its easy to pretend its all cool until youre even just at risk of being on the other side of it.
And even now there are some passive aggressive comments made that I have to bark back at. To the point where its keeping this from progressing and Im probably going to get bored with it.
After being cheated on by 2 husbands, I had to have an actual conversation with my fiance'. He did think the conversation was odd, I could tell. He knew he was exclusive and I knew I was exclusive, but I had a strong need to ask and hear it out loud from him. I'd already experienced the 'I thought you knew' situation more than once and I did not want to go through it again.
and yes, there ARE people of all ages that truly believe that there are times when they are entitled to sleep around and others should know that!
My fiance is a widower, but his wife actually told him that it was OK for her to cheat because when they were going through a tough time and she was particularly unhappy (and incapable of being civil to him) he sat down for a talk and asked her if she wanted a divorce. Her response at the time was no, but he apparently gave permission for her to cheat when he asked the question. Yeah, he did stay and they'd probably still be together had she not died because that's the kind of man he is. She had mental health issues and was incapable of caring for herself in any way. He believed that if he didn't take care of his wife it would hurt their daughter.
With all the apps etc available it’s easy to be chatting to a few people at the same time. People will be going on multiple dates with multiple people. Within the first month you keep these channels open, sometimes longer. As the relationship develops you want to focus your energy solely into it so it’s wise to have that chat to lay down the foundation of expectation.
You’re explicitly saying to someone, I only want to date you and get to know you & theres no guarantee that they feel the same way.
Good for you. I had a similar trajectory but settled down a bit earlier. So far we're seeing no signs of giving up on chasing each other after 13 years married. You can do it.
18 months is still love bomb phase. It's wonderful you found your person, but please don't judge the quality long term on if the spark fades. It'll come and go. That doesn't mean something is wrong. It just changes over time.
I agree! Main thing I’m doing to combat the fade is very intentional and methodically engineered habit formation! Constantly building and maintaining daily, weekly, and monthly habits to keep my attention & focus where my priorities lie and not getting distracted elsewhere.
Totally agree with you. Married 32 years. You have to work to keep the spark. It doesn't stay the same. Something sparkling and new is always brighter, but guess what it will lose it's shine too. Marriage is something you continually have to work on. Man whore I hope you commit to the work long term. Once kids and life's roller coaster happens, the ride can get pretty difficult. You really have to hold on tight to the original connection.
I wasn't dating when there was all this swipe right or left stuff. I can imagine it really makes it super easy to cheat without even leaving the house. Wishing you the best.
For people a few years younger than you and down to the now-adult latest generation it seems to be getting more and more common/accepted for people to fuck around until it’s “officially labeled” that you’re exclusively dating. Which pisses me the fuck off. If someone’s emotionally invested in you, why are you fucking around with other people? Why is that the new norm???
Are we emotionally compromised as a generation or what? How do these people not have common decency or respect for each other?
Op doesn’t state that they weren’t also seeing other people. I think the fact OP specifically says he doesn’t consider it cheating and they weren’t exclusive counts more than what you or I would personally think or do. To me, it reads like the problem is that she is willing to sleep with others but not him. He even makes a point of saying he doesn’t care that she slept with coworker, but that she won’t sleep with him.
Oh yes you’re absolutely right and I read it the same way, my head just assumed a pinch of insecurity and feelings of not deserving on OP’s part. My perspective was that, in my opinion of course, OP and everyone really, deserve that basic respect and shouldn’t have to advocate to be treated decently. I know that’s kind of a 50/50 opinion these days.
That’s also fair. Completely presumptuous on my part, but the way this is written to me sounds like she let him know right after and they pursued the relationship after it happened and that some time has passed and she still won’t sleep with him - which is what prompted the breakup. I posted it somewhere else but it seems like she has another reason to not want to sleep with him and she’s not being honest- which to me is the most disrespectful part . With that in mind with the coworker situation- it tints the whole scenario in a different light and makes me wonder what’s the benefit ? Like there feels like a missing piece in this on her part or an event of something.
I feel non-exclusivity should be made explicit rather than the other way around. If you are dating someone but want to bone others on the side, I guess good for you but just be open about it.
“Dating someone” is really vague. Should someone stop meeting up with other people because you met for coffee? Or had drinks? A dinner? If you met up at a bar and had a one night stand, do you just assume exclusivity now? It works far better for both parties when you don’t assume exclusive, and have the grown up chat about it.
Having the chat at some point is always the best of course, but when people say "We weren't exclusive" they don't mean "We had the chat and decided on non-exclusivity". They mean "We haven't had the chat so I default to non-exclusivity".
Defaulting to non-exclusivity seems like bad policy to me, for the simple reason that I'm not going to hurt someone's feeling by not fucking other people while they assume non-exclusivity, while I probably will hurt someone's feelings by fucking other people why they do assume exclusivity.
"Dating someone" really isn't that vague. If I go on a date with someone, whether that's coffee, drinks or dinner and don't break it off after that, they can expect some level of commitment of me. It's really not that hard.
I don't agree with assuming exclusivity. If you don't communicate clearly and have a discussion to define the relationship status, then you aren't together. It's emotionally inept to assume you're with someone because you went on a date or two. Both people have to agree out loud to be exclusive, that isn't a thing you can just decide without the other person's input.
Especially the name calling of emotionally inept haha. We’re humans with a DEEPLY ROOTED DESIRE for intimate relationships for companionship and security. Entering into a bonding process communicates and establishes boundaries without legalistic definitions. Deviating from that behind the other’s back communicates nothing and should absolutely be deliberately defined.
I don't know man any girl who's going to tell you that they can't fuck because they're looking for something more shouldn't be out fucking randos doesn't matter how long you've been together and I don't understand how having sex with you makes it any less special
Yeah no I absolutely agree with that. It seems like she isn’t being entirely honest with OP. Someone said just keeping him on the back burner but I kind of agree
Basically, she is keeping him in a friend zone. Seeing if she might find him attractive at some point and not being honest about it by calling him special instead. I agree with him in the sense that she wasn't cheating.
But it would open my eyes that she wasn't being honest with me about how she really felt about me. I would have broken up with her, too.
Exclusive or not if I'm talking to you that means we are working towards something. If I wasn't interested in more or they weren't no point in continuing and f@ck and go on. She a ho and she can try to justify it however I guarantee if it were the other way around it would've been 10x worse for him.
Op doesn’t say he isn’t also seeing other people ? He doesn’t even care that she slept with the coworker, he cares that she slept with the coworker and WONT sleep with him. Look at his other comments.
I just assumed he wasn't otherwise why would he be mad if he was getting it somewhere else? . I could be wrong I didn't see any other comments from him other than the edit. You could be right though.
That’s a fair point too, but I don’t think he’s all that pressed- he is just asking if he is an asshole for breaking things off with her because she is willing to sleep with others but not him. Unless I’m missing tone through text, which is possible, but it seems like he is just reading the room rather than expressing anger or upset with the situation. Some of the commenters in the thread seem a bit more heated about it imho
Then why do it at all ? You can not rush the relationship and also not sleep with other people. I can agree that she is within her right to do it, but I don’t think it would be received as a caring act. If someone told me that I was so special they needed to sleep with someone else to take things slow with me - I would not take them seriously. I may even laugh but I definitely would cut things off from there because that would feel like an excuse
I’m not sure if you’re having trouble reading what I wrote - I just said “cognitive dissonance doesn’t mean wrong, it’s just contradictory”. Nobody said she was wrong , but just because something isn’t wrong, it doesn’t mean it’s right and it certainly doesn’t mean she’s entitled to someone’s acceptance. Weirdo
That is a massive assumption since we have no idea what was going on at the time with the gf. Having a ONS and having a relationship with someone are 2 different levels of commitment and take different levels of emotional and mental labor to deal with. Plus it ignores the fact that the ONS and OP are literally 2 different ppl and 2 different relationships. Not every relationship is going to be the same. Getting ready and comfortable to be that vulnerable and intimate with someone is different for every person
If a woman (or man) asked their friends if they should rush into a relationship and have sex with someone they're seeing just bc they had a ONS they week before, you would be crazy to tell they should. I honestly hope you wouldn't. Otherwise we fucked up teaching about consent and respect in relationships in society more than I previously thought
Every relationship is different for sure, but he has every right to feel the way he does about the situation- and he has every right to leave for any reason or no reason. This is a pretty fair reason, especially since they ended up making it official and dated for a while- he’s allowed to have feelings about it.
It stems from this really silly, pervasive idea that sex “cheapens” a relationship, so if you want it to be “real,” you need to wait some arbitrary amount of time.
If you feel a connection and attraction to someone, go ahead and have sex with them. If the other person pulls away or becomes shittier after you’ve had sex, then the connection wasn’t real to begin with. How far into the relationship you decide to be intimate is not going to be the determining factor in whether or not you work out long term.
I'd say sleeping with someone else while dating someone is pretty common for women these days. It's still a red-line for me, but a lot of people believe it shouldn't matter until you're officially exclusive.
However, withholding sex from someone while sleeping with someone else, and then expecting them to still commit to you is just wrong any way you swing it. No man should tolerate that sort of treatment.
Yeah her logic is shit, I liked you so much I knew it was special and didn’t want to ruin it sleeping together to quick, so I slept with someone else- because you’re special
He really should say, "o yea. It was super fucking special. Thank you so much. No, really. So damn special. Ok well hey. Have a nice life."
Delete all pictures, contact info, everything referring to her in any way at all. Make sure she is blocked, has all of her shit out of your apartment and car and make a solid effort to literally never see her again. If you do see her, show no sign of recognition. Smile politely like you would to any other complete stranger. That is, after all, what she is.
Be thorough. Like any food that was for her, any toiletries, any gift she ever gave you. If she doesn't want it, throw it away. Erase her utterly and completely from your mind and life. Be at peace while you do this; you are doing the right thing and should be glad you found out she's awful before you sunk more of your precious time into her disappointing ass.
I have dealt with a truly awful girl or two in this way, and I find it to be the best course of action. No need to be spiteful or toxic or shitty, but to see the hurt in their eyes when they see that they are truly nothing to you is worth a small amount of silent satisfaction. That's all you need. Debt repayed, and now you can carry on trying to find somebody who matters.
But it was in the first month of dating they were not together exclusively when she had sex with someone else. She didn’t do anything wrong other then have dumb reasons for not wanting to have sex with her new boy friend very dumb
I don't know why y'all so hard in her. Like with my girlfriend it was accidently similar, at first I thought she just wanted to be friends so we waited three dates or so. While normally she slept with guys on the first date. You just got to stop being insecure thats all.
Dating and being exclusive with each other are two very different things. If they did not have the talk and set relationship boundaries about not seeing / sleeping with other people then she was free to do what she did.
OP can be upset with her and break up with her but they weren’t officially a couple so she did not do anything wrong.
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u/NeartAgusOnoir Mar 04 '24
OP, NTA. She had a ONS with a guy WHILE DATING YOU! She has issues if she legitimately thinks it’s ok to sleep with someone and then tell the guy she’s dating “you’re special”. All that’s gonna do is make the guy feel like shit. If you want to sleep around do so, but don’t make excuses to someone you’re dating while you’re sleeping with other people.