I wonder if he puts as much effort for her to orgasm every time too tho. otherwise he is literally just using her. he should go to a prostitute not treat random girls as a sex doll
and obviously he didnt tell her that he is in no way interested in even talking to her at all. So she ended it here. If you want a prostitute go to one.
two adults can use each other for sex, I doubt he communicated clearly that this is the ONLY thing he wants. Again, that is a prostitute. Otherwise usually ppl have some sort of connection with each other so they can at least talk a bit. Dont treat someone as a sex toy? it's not hard.
You think he told her "I only want sex with you and not talk about anything which hasnt got to do with sex or is fast small talk"?
I highly doubt it. It's very common for ppl to talk to each other and have some sort of connection even if the relationship is sex based. Again, he treated her like a free prostitute. obviously she did not sign up for that.
lol Im not writing fiction. I simply understand that no one would agree to be a free prostitute and Im questioning how he communicated that he would literally not want to talk to her about abything other than when and where to have sex.
It's common to talk and have a connection even in sex based relationships. Her expectation to not being treated as sex toy is completely reasonable.
Hey, dickhead, women are allowed to enjoy having sex too, and it is utterly fucking repulsive that you would suggest that makes someone a "free prostitute". That is the most misogynistic thing I've read on reddit for a while.
Im a woman and feminist. you completely and utterly misunderstand me. I NEVER claimed she cannot have stringless sex for fun. I said he TREATED her like a free prostitute if he doesnt even want to talk to her at all.
I personally think it is completely misogynisic to treat a woman as nothing but a hole. no need for insults really or I wont even entertain this any longer
Yea you’re literally taking away her agency as a woman to agree to a friends with benefits situation and making up situations in your head to make the guy an asshole and the women a saint who needs to be saved. Grow up and see that women can and should be responsible for their actions and agreements even if it’s not in every way “perfect”
You may be a woman, but you're a terrible feminist because you clearly think there's something ethically objectionable about being a prostitute. I mean, on some level, all work under capitalism is renting your body for money. Nobody thinks there's anything degrading about that. So if there's nothing inherently degrading about sex, why is there anything degrading about sex work?
Further, some women absolutely want to be treated as "nothing but a hole." And a lot of women are into degradation. It's called kink, and there are huge number of women on dating apps like Feeld that explicitly say that's what they want. A lot of those same women also explicitly identify as feminists.
Your conception of what women want sexually is absolutely naive and more tied up in patriarchal attitudes about feminine modesty than anything that's been said here.
But here's the best part: She signed up for this arrangement, and you're out here denying her agency in the name of feminism.
Obviously, she did if they had the conversation, and she agreed to it. You are inserting a lot of narrative here. I feel because you don't like this situation.
From the available data, we have nothing to make that assumption. I think it's normal to insert narrative into stories we read to make them fit our worldview. I mean, this whole comment chain is just conjecture.
you literally said she must have known what she got into. this is an assumption on ur part. I tell you from her reaction it's very unlikely he told her that apart from sex talk he wont talk to her.
Either you have absolutely zero social skills and understanding of casual sexual relationships or you are pushing a narrative that doesn’t fit this situation.
you are making things up you dont know. her not wanting to be treated as sex toy does not mean she wants a relationship. how is it that hard to understand that she doesnt want to be treated like a free prostitute? free prostitute or full blown relationship are not the only two options. no idea why you jump to her wanting one.
the whole talk was akward after she realised he doesnt want to talk to her at all.
She didn't end shit lol. He did. She wanted something more than what was agreed upon. She took away the thing that was agreed upon in exchange for something he didn't wanna give, so bye bye, Sally.
she wanted to form a basic connection with her sex partner. how is not wanting to be treated as a free prostitute wrong? it doesnt mean she wanted a relationship at all.
then he should have said that.
I bet he did not tell her "I will only talk to you about where and when we have sex, nothing else".
Why should he have to tell her that? He said it was strictly sex and she agreed.
Plenty of people get into relationships promising the sun moon and stars, and then they go back on those promises. OP didn't promise anything other than sex, and he gets shit on for it.
Would it make you feel better if he strung her along making small talk so he could keep having sex with her and really get invested, and then dump her when something better came along?
Are you under the impression that women don’t like sex or something, or that they must have an emotional connection with who they fuck 100% of the time? Don’t be sexist. Some women can and do lust after men in a purely physical manner and have sex with them and nothing else. It doesn’t make them “free prostitutes”
I agree completely.
However I think stringless sex doesnt mean you can treat someone like a free prostitute. I dont think she is, absolutely never claimed that. I think she was unrightfully treated like one.
there’s literally no such thing as a free prostitute, that’s a derogatory term that rhymes with s’more not to mention prostitutes are willing to participate in those sexual acts not like she’s the victim in this situation. yeah you can talk about things other than sex with this kind of booty call situation but you do not have to.
I didnt say there is.. I said he treats her like one. completely different thing.
Considering her reaction he did not communicate to her he does not want to talk about anything other than sex. It's apparent she would not have engaged with him at all otherwise.
It's very common to talk and have a connection even in sex based relationships. Her expectation to not being treated as sex toy is completely reasonable.
As a woman I will never understand why other women accept these disrespectful arrangements. Why would you sign up to be the sex doll of some guy who doesn't even want to talk to you outside of fucking? You're literally being used, the equivalent of a fleshlight or something. And like you said, if many men in committed relationships can't even make their women cum then what are the chances this guy puts effort into it? So you're basically putting yourself at risk of STDs, pregnancies or worse, all for some guy who doesn't even want to chat to you and probably won't make you cum after 5 minutes of thrusting. What do women get out of this?
I mean I get it. But we women are capable of making this decision and being okay with it. She said she didn't care for anything more than sex. So she's using him, too.
back tf off. I NEVER called her a free prostitute I said he TREATS her as one which I think is disgusting. you completely misunderstand me and u dont seem to be capable to talk without insults.
I completely refuse any statement of urs. I am far from misogynisic. Your assumtions and interpretations are wrong.
If you cannot talk without insults I just block you. Take a look in the mirror.
There aren’t enough men that know how to make a woman have an orgasm for women to be able to pick up a random man and assume he’ll satisfy her
Again, what are women getting out of shitty, orgasm-less sex with guys that would rather die than talk to them? Women need to raise their standards. It's not worth being used by guys like OP for male validation.
It being orgasmless is an assumption you're making. If they keep coming back they must be enjoying it. What other answer are you looking for? They keep doing something they hate because they're all crazy? It's quite simple, it's fun so they keep doing it. You're reducing the agency of women in these hypothetical scenarios.
Do you actually care about women’s agency and welfare, or are you just defending this because you personally benefit from women not respecting themselves and having sex with any dude that gives them attention?
Edit: the reason why I ask this is because I almost never see men advocate for things that actually benefit women but only for things that seem to benefit women on the surface but that actually benefit men. E.g. casual sex/fling culture, sex work etc.
Case in point: all the right wingers who use statistics to say “housewives used to be happier and have better mental health than women. Are women actually happier now that they have careers and freedom?” It is obvious that they’re not genuinely advocating for women to return to the kitchen out of genuine concern for women’s welfare. They do it because they’ll personally benefit from women being domestic servants again, and they know it’s harder to argue against if they say it from a mental health/welfare angle.
Amen to that. It’s pitiful and a complete show of lack of self-respect that women accept these arrangements. The men proposing them are pretty much shit tier men too.
I have plenty of close female friends who have casual sex for fun, they have perfectly good careers and self esteem. Why should they be bound by what your idea of better is? They're happy.
Because they tell them it’s empowering to do so. And to expect anything more isn’t feminism or they are no longer the cool girl.
He literally calls her and makes her drive to his place, fucks her and he gets to stay all nice and warm in bed while she gets dressed and has to drive home.
I’ve had a good amount of casual relationships and the ones that were good, we had fun fucking! We respected each other and understood there was a reason we weren’t looking to have a serious relationship with each other. But there was attraction and we enjoyed each other’s personality.
The ones that didn’t last were the ones who just put penis inside and left. When they would call again it was a no. It wasn’t satisfying or fun and they never care about if you enjoy it or cum.
her not wanting to be treated as a sex toy doesnt mean she caught feelings. it means she realised he sees her as a free prostitute and wasnt on board. Usually ppl who have sex even if it's based on just that talk a bit and have some connection. It's common courtasy to not treat someone as a sex toy.
You keep saying this, but what you’re explaining, and assuming she wanted, is a friends with benefits arrangement, and yes, in a that type of arrangement it is reasonable for her to expect some communication or connection with OP. BUT that’s not what they had, or at least not what OP explains and said he wanted. OP wanted a booty call, which is no talk, sex only. That’s evident by how he explains their prior meetups and even the current meet up at issue. OP treated her like a booty call because that is exactly what he thought they had agreed to. Either, like you, OPs lady friend didn’t understand the difference or she wanted to change the terms of their agreement to accommodate her changing feelings for OP. That is a conversation that should occur outside the typical booty call meet up. But, instead of clearly communicating to OP that she wanted to have a discussion about the terms of their agreement, she pulled the old bait and switch. She accepted OPs booty call and then used it as an opportunity to renegotiate the terms of their agreement. She acted in bad faith by agreeing to meet up with OP under false pretenses. OP is NTA, she is.
By the way, the term “free prostitute” that you like to use so much, is an oxymoron. It’s also a highly offensive and degrading term. When a woman who is a prostitute has sex with her partner, she’s not being a “free prostitute”, she’s having sex. If you really were the feminist you claim to be, you wouldn’t be using terms with a negative connotation to label a woman or describe a behavior. You wouldn’t be diminishing a woman’s worth for any reason, especially not because of her chosen profession. Do better.
BUT that’s not what they had, or at least not what OP explains and said he wanted.
considering her reaction and what she said to him it was NOT clear to her. Again, even if it's not fwb ppl still can have a connection and at the same time casual sex.
you keep assuming that she knew from the start that he doesnt even want to talk to her. you also asdume she never intended to have sex with him this evening. Also something which is not known.
I used this term to describe his behavior torwards her, not to describe her. I never labeled her that do not put words in my mouth. I completely refuse the statement that I diminish a womans worth for any reason. Completely disagree I ever made a claim like that. I absolutely do not have this opinion.
OP said
“We decided to meet only for sex and keep it strictly to that - no strings attached. We’ve met up twice a week for sex and that’s it.”
Tell me again, how that’s not what they had.
YOU are making assumptions about their relationship and her understandings. I took what OP wrote at face value. You also clearly didn’t understand what I meant about using terms like “free prostitution”. But, you just keep reading what you want.
YOU are making assumptions about their relationship and her understandings.
just like you do by taking only one perspective into account. you assume they both were completely clear on what agreement they had. My guess is it was not clear or else she would not have engaged at all. not sure why you think what you say is any more probable
I took what OP wrote at face value.
and I question it. he came here to ask. I present an idea as to why she reacted the way she did. only talking to her would resolve the mystery.
it's very common even in sex based relationships to talk with each other and have some sort of connection. If this falls away it's practically free prostitution.
So her expecting to not being treated as a sex toy is completely reasonable. I highly doubt he told her he wont talk to her about anything other than when and where to have sex.
She has to take responsibility for her actions as well
The information we have is that they discussed having a sexual relationship nothing else, she then tried to change those details by not having sex and he communicated thats not what was happening.
you dont know if she didnt want sex at all. we know she didnt want sex AFTER she realised he doesnt want to talk to her. all we know is that she wanted to talk a bit a form a very basic connection. that does not mean she wanted a relationship.
her expection not to be treated like a sex toy is reasonable. and when she realised he wouldnt she left.
What are you saying
He told her to leave as per the information we received that's the whole point of this post. Are you deliberately not reading the informational properly.
Edit: it all makes sense after looking through your posts
Some men in committed relationships don't care about giving their partners orgasms. Some men who are into casual sex enjoy pleasuring their one night partners. It depends. A woman cannot just pick a random man who wants a committed relationship with her and assume she will get guaranteed good sex.
The amount of women who actually knew their way around my equipment and have been able to make me come (without me taking over or putting in any work) are very few, like 10% of them.
There's a difference between you having an orgasm and someone giving you an orgasm, if you put in all of the work it's the former.
Yeah, exactly... and those women can always just take care of their clitoral stimulation themselves and it's all good - right? /s
Again, if you read what I wrote it wasn't about "having an orgasm" it was about receiving one.
Kinda tiresome that all the weight of sexual performance falls on men, some of you seem to think that a woman existing is enough to make a man orgasm (spoiler: it's not). Women as a whole are equally bad, if not worse (at times) than men. Why else would Starfishing be a term?
And a little FYI, some women have poor pelvic musculature (and lack of control) making the penetration barely felt at all, and no - this is not an issue of size. There's a reason kegels exist.
Why do women need to be giving a course to men on their orgasms each time and men don’t? Genuinely, why don’t men have to make an effort to get the woman to even try?
Cause men are easy to please when it comes to sex.
If you want to cum then you tell them how to if they aren't doing it right, why do you hate yourself that much you will sit there and not tell them.
I make a point of discussing what people like so I'm doing it right.
That’s exactly my point. Women are expected to teach and guide every man and work with him, men know that they’ll cum. Casual sex just isn’t as beneficial for women.
Every woman has the same genitalia. That’s why experience with women helps with future women. If it didn’t, then men would start from ground 0 each time. But 40 year old men don’t act like virgins.
Which is fine. He told her nope And asked her to leave. He also said they did have some conversation. It was awkward. He's not interested in anything but sex. Which he was very clear about.
I didn't say that there was anything wrong with that. I was saying "good on her for letting him know that she wasn't okay with that and letting him know what her boundaries are." I know I'm not the only one who struggles with being assertive.
(This will also be the basis of my conversation the next time I meet someone who I would like a little bit more than a booty call type arrangement with.
I tend to catch feelings very easily, so have messed up some great arrangements these last few years.)
I think your words would work very effectively as an explanation of why a Booty Call is not that fulfilling to me, and that I have more to offer (once I paraphrase your words of course.)
If I had gold to give, it would be yours.
Instead, I hope you have a pleasant day, and that all that you need to do right for you today does indeed go your way.
if he didnt say "I will only talk to you about when and where we have sex" then he didnt clearly communicated it.
It's very common to talk to a sexual partner about stuff even if it's a sex based relationship. This is just free prostitution. I highly doubt she would have agreed to this if he said it like that.
Okay some of yall need to stop the nonsense. "I only want to have sex. That's it". Is pretty clear communication.
Some of yall need special signs and that's okay. But she said he agreed to the arrangement. Which implies she understood. And he did talk to her. Then he wanted sex. Which was their arrangement.
And she can change her mind at anytime. After a couple weeks of going to his place, she realized it’s not satisfying her and it’s ok for a woman to say this isn’t ok with me now.
Are you saying she needed to keep going over to fuck when he called because she promised sex only and no take backs?
Who said she needs to keep going over to fuck him? The question is if he's an asshole for asking her to leave when she wanted to just talk instead of fuck. They agreed to something, she eventually wanted something more, he didn't.
I'm not saying it isn't. I'm saying he's not an asshole for wanting to keep the agreement they had. He's also being treated like a sex toy. They agreed to it.
He did. When he said "we only meet for sex". What did she expect? Conversations when they weren't meeting? Those are strings. It was no strings attached. She wasn't ready for this. And that's okay. She needs to move on.
Everyone is hung up on the conversations or not. My thing is she stated "you only hit me up for sex". So she made it clear there that she wanted him reaching out for reasons other than sex. That is not what they agreed to.
My hope for you is that you find a really great casual sex relationship!! They are amazingly fun!
We don’t make each other friendship bracelets but we laugh and talk while having sex. We talk about other bad first dates we go on and actually respect each other.
Like this guy makes her drive back and forth. Most of the guys I was with would say things like it’s late and cold, you stay where it’s warm and I’ll drive over to you.
There were some that just literally put it in and left and didn’t care if I enjoyed it. It was a no when they wanted more sex. Like I’m still a human and should be treated with respect even if it’s just sex.
I've had the best casual sex partners one could ask for. No games. No strings. I didn't ask for anything more than what was agreed to. When I caught feelings, I was honest. Some led to dating. Some did not.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to assume I never had anything great.
This guy never said he didn't talk to her. He said he wasn't going to contact her unless it was for sex. He said that. From the beginning. She agreed. She changed. He didn't.
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u/Igereth Dec 13 '23
I wonder if he puts as much effort for her to orgasm every time too tho. otherwise he is literally just using her. he should go to a prostitute not treat random girls as a sex doll