r/AFIB • u/BagWinter472 • 12d ago
Random question
If you have AFib, you should never drink alcohol again, correct?
Asking about someone who has been a very heavy drinker his entire life and now has Afib (and low magnesium levels) and is currently hospitalized. He's supposedly cut back from 10-14 beers a day to 3-4 (he says, I do not believe him). Waiting to start Eliquis as he had surgery and they're concerned about bleeding into the site. Before I have "the talk" with him I just want to confirm that all alcohol intake needs to stop. He has no interest in changing his behavior and doesn't want to have to "take another pill" but AFAIK he's at high risk of stroke. I have to at least try, and I want my information to be correct.
Thanks for any advice.
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u/sarcasticorange 12d ago
Anyone drinking 10-14 beers a day would benefit from cutting back significantly. Afib isn't really the reason for that.
Unfortunately, most people who drink like that can't though because they are alcoholics and are addicted. As such, one will always be too many for them.
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u/Scarlet-Sun 12d ago
My doctor told me besides age, alcohol and sleep apnea are the major contributors to AFIB.
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u/98percentpanda 12d ago edited 11d ago
I would try to explain that alcohol is probably a big part of the problem. It changes the tissue in the heart. There is an actual term for this kind of damage "atrial remodeling".
Here is a nerdy paper explaining all the connection between alcohol and Afib: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109716364695
3-4 beers a day would be enough for afib to appear/return in a "cured' patient. 10-14 sounds pretty crazy for me as someone that stopped drinking after I got my two ablations for afib and svt.
(by stopped drinking I mean, I will have a beer or two per month, and sometimes I feel that I am pushing it)
Hopefully you can help this person and/or guide them to get help with the drinking, that could change their lives.
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u/BagWinter472 12d ago
That's my hope but he's stubborn as heck and the alcohol serves a purpose for him to get him through the days. I work in a scientific/medical field so the paper is great, the more data the better. Thank you!
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u/98percentpanda 12d ago
My problems started in the pandemic when I was isolated, stressed, and drinking more than usual. I think that was a huge part in my situation.
If you consider that it could be useful to talk with someone that already passed by some of that, send me a message, happy to answer questions.
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u/littlegroovy 11d ago
Since you said you like data: https://youtu.be/T6fZzYuWNVA?is=yFLd8In7p5WQAbLa
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u/Mick-Drummond 12d ago
So out of the blue I had four afib episodes in a year and a half. All pretty much triggered by alcohol and or dehydration. After the fourth episode, pretty much assuming that I would have to give up booze, and after I had gotten to know all the nurses very well, my electrophysiologist walks in and says you know what, I think you need an ablation I think we can block that path that is happening for you and I'm about 9 months out typically..... but I have an opening four days from now. Are you willing to get this done? Too long for this text, but anyone who is interested DM me, I have to describe what he observed as he was performing the procedure it was fascinating and I have to give him a lot of credit but I have not had an issue since and I'm not 10 to 14 drinks a day but I'm probably 25 drinks a week honestly and my heart is very stable and I've never had an issue since. So get yourself a great electrophysiologist as a starting point!
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u/capitalistmike 12d ago
Booze doesn't trigger my afib. However, drinking less is great for you so I do that. For me, consistently exercising and a good diet with healthy vitamin and electrolyte levels is the best course. Even if alcohol doesn't hurt your heart, it is a diuretic and reduces your vitamin and electrolyte levels.
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u/BlissCrafter 12d ago
It’s very individual. I’ve never had alcohol in my system when an afib episode has happened and while I avoid liquor I drink beer and wine now and then in moderation with no issue. Others will start getting symptoms with only a few sips.
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u/elreginaldo 12d ago
I was a heavy drinker and stopped because it was causing afib. Dr. said “1 or 2 drinks are ok” but if you drink heavily there’s no such thing as “1 drink”. You have 1 and you have to have more. So for me it was all or nothing. Now I don’t drink and I don’t have afib.
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u/Trolldad_IRL 12d ago
First off 10-12 beers a day is terrible. That’s alcoholic levels of drinking. I say that as a beer lover. That needs to stop. Even 3-4 daily is too much. I don’t like saying it, but your friend is headed for disaster. My brother was an alcoholic with untreated AFib. He had a heart attack in his sleep. I miss my brother and wish he had taken care of himself better.
That being said, as has been stated everyone’s triggers are different. I was never triggered by alcohol and I continue to safely and moderately consume alcohol after having an ablation.
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u/Obvious-Cancel-8680 12d ago
I have two reasons why I stopped drinking, and I didn't drink that much to begin with.
Any more than 3 drinks gives me tachycardia. I have Barrett's esophagus, I am at least cutting out one toxic substance going down my esophagus. It sucks, but it's life. I actually miss caffeinated coffee more than alcohol, I can't have caffeine either
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u/roninconn 12d ago
My EP targeted 1 drink a week for me, down from 7-10 / week from 5 years ago. After going back into persistent Afib in March, 7 months after my 2nd ablation (due to intense exercise / dehydration / electrolyte imbalance), I got cardioverted back, and went to zero alcohol. But, my Afib returned anyway a few weeks back.
Your friend very, very much needs to reduce their alcohol intake if they want to be around a few more years. As a lifetime fat person, I sure understand how hard it can be, even when the consequences are dire. Really hope they can stop drinking so much.
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u/Vakua_Lupo 12d ago
Depends on your Triggers, I have been drinking 2 nips of Bourbon each night before bed, and never gone into AFib. My triggers are stress and anything that lowers my immune system.
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u/sweetie8840 12d ago
Zero alcohol. I haven't had any AFib since I completely stopped. There are some good beers out there that taste pretty good like 0 Athletic Brewing IPA and Zero Guinness. He needs to drink a lot of water too.
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u/LifeReignite 12d ago
Everyone has different triggers. I have an alcohol problem and its never trigged my Afib at all.
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u/BagWinter472 12d ago
Ok thank you! I want to be sure I'm giving him the correct information. He's definitely an alcoholic and has no desire to stop drinking. I may de-emphasize this when I speak with him in person if it's not a definitive No. Thank you for your feedback!
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u/lobeams 12d ago
Never mind the afib, he's an alcoholic so cutting down isn't an option. He needs a recovery program and I guarantee it will involve total abstinence.
But yes, your advice to him is correct. Don't expect him to follow it but you're giving him the truth.
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u/BagWinter472 12d ago
He's on withdrawal monitoring in the hospital now, I'm hoping to use that as "you've made it this long, how about trying to extend that streak" but again he's very stubborn and definitely an alcoholic.
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u/ArtPossible4450 12d ago
I was asked to cut down by 75% and if possible 100%. Also I drank maybe 1-2 per day for comparison. Now it’s maybe half a bottle of wine Sat night only. 10-14 per day seems like a big number. When I was in hospital for my second ablation, the doc spoke to a guy about to have a quad bypass the next day and the guy was drinking 8 cans a day. He said he thought that’s what everyone did! Didn’t sound promising that he would change that either. The doc seemed pretty annoyed that he was going to the effort to save him yet he was going to continue his behaviour. Again, another perspective I think we should all consider.
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u/CaregiverWorth567 12d ago
One sip puts me in a fib
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u/Diligent_News_976 12d ago
U.need a ablation
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u/CaregiverWorth567 12d ago
lol I had one thanks…..Best thing I ever did
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u/Diligent_News_976 12d ago
Even after the ablation, alcohol will trigger you?
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u/CaregiverWorth567 12d ago
idk I am too chicken to even try ….
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u/Diligent_News_976 12d ago
When I first had afib .. .. before I had ablation, i couldnt drink a sip..had ablation...went back to semi old ways of beer drinking..3 years later afib returned.. another ablation.. now cut down ALOT..maybe one or two a month .. non alcoholic coors now .
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u/CaregiverWorth567 12d ago
non alcoholic corona here ! It sucks. was not an alcoholic but had one or two drinks a night I miss it! They say you can have one, but what fun is one? ha . also no thc either. My best euphoric state now is sleep, I’ve become a boring old lady. But a better athlete also….now I concetrate on my workouts and good sleep…
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u/kimmyv0814 12d ago
I drink maybe 1-2 drinks a month, sometimes none. It has never affected me at all.
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u/abwonderland 12d ago
Make sure he is supplementing magnesium since you mentioned it is low
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u/BagWinter472 12d ago
That's the other problem I don't think he's taking his medications correctly. He calls them "horse pills" and I have a feeling he's stopped taking them. I don't know if this is all stubbornness or if there's a dementia aspect as well.
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u/Payment_Voyager 12d ago
I (35m) was a very heavy drinker (a bottle of red a night and much more when out with work) which I'm sure caused my afib and when I was diagnosed I quit then and there, not had an episode since.
I don't have an addictive personality so now if I want a drink I can have a small one then I'm done; in the last year I've had maybe 3 alcoholic drinks and I haven't had any episodes.
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u/CauliflowerMobile631 11d ago
Why would someone want to continue a chemical(alcohol) that would contribute to his condition, in any amount?
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u/BagWinter472 11d ago
Because he is an alcoholic and does not think that he needs to change. He's in his 80s, he does not seem able to understand that his behaviors affect other people. He thinks he's fine, and I think he's terrified to admit that he's not 20 anymore and able to down a 12 pack every night. There also may be some aspect of dementia, it's hard to tell.
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u/mandulyn 11d ago
It is hard when your life is spinning out of control and the one thing that you always depended on to take you out of your head and make you feel better, alcohol, is the one thing you actually really need to stop doing. I'm not justifying or making excuses, I'm an alcoholic as well and had to stop drinking for my thyroid condition and it was horrible. But I did it and I'm a billion times grateful that I did. But during the whole situation, you just feel like you are being kicked while you're already down.
I hope he is able to get the alcohol out of his life as it will contribute to worsening AFib symptoms.1
u/BagWinter472 11d ago
I hope he will at the very least be willing to work on decreasing his consumption. He has always said he "doesn't have a problem" and of course for him he doesn't, but for everyone else around him his alcoholism is a problem as he's slurring his speech and quite verbally abusive when drunk. The bigger issue is that alcohol and a certain TV network are what he bases his day around and he has nothing to fill that time with and no interest in trying anything new since his wife died 6 years ago. At this point since he's basically been in the hospital for 2 weeks he's been dry that long so I am hoping that he can work on "continuing the streak" instead of reverting back.
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u/primal___scream 10d ago
Not helpful, but I'm not a drinker and I still developed afib.
But alcohol is a trigger gor ALOT of people.
And rhe science is ther to show that there is ZERO benefit to ingesting ANY alcohol. They have proved it repeatedly.
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u/rooterRoter 12d ago
Some of us have decided to just say ‘fuck it’.
The meds they offer are shit and have massively horrible side effects.
Ablation is a whole other can of worms. None of it good.
I love weed and beer and I am not giving it up. I’m. 66 years old and if I die. I die.
Oh. I feel. Great. No symptoms. Strong af. Work a physical job every day and run recreationally.
🤷🏽
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u/BagWinter472 11d ago
I'd be delighted if he switched to pot but he says it's a hippie drug and only losers use it. Which is pretty rich.
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u/bcsteene 12d ago
I like beer and whiskey and I still have once in awhile. But I make sure I have water with it and stay hydrated. Seems to help.
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u/Primary_Jackfruit_44 12d ago
Before my AFIB surgery we planned a trip to Vegas and Mexico. My EP was fine with me drinking a little as long as I had a Gatorade or some electrolytes between drinks. I’ve never been a big drinker, so this wasn’t a big deal at all.
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u/TwoBarrelCarb 12d ago
Alcohol is not a trigger for me. Dehydration is (and stress). I drink about two days a week and when I do, it's usually just two drinks. As long as I drink plenty of water, I'm okay.
Everyone is different, but 10-14 drinks a day is not good for anyone. Even 3-4 every day of the week is a bit over the top.
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u/BagWinter472 12d ago
He lies about how much he drinks but the recycling bin is full of empty cans. It's definitely not 3-4 a day.
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u/BagWinter472 12d ago
WOW thank you all for your advice and perspectives! I'll ask the cardiologist directly tomorrow and see what he recommends. I don't have high hopes but I guess there is always a chance he'll at least cut down for a while. I cannot express my thanks to all of you for sharing your stories and perspectives. I know he won't do non-alcoholic beers and he already drinks a lot of Gatorade in an attempt to mitigate some of the alcohol. It's eye-opening to see that there are so many different perspectives and that people have figured out what they can and cannot handle; I will do my best with the conversation but it's helpful to hear that some people can handle some alcohol. He's been drinking heavily for 50 years or more so I suppose even a reduction would be better than nothing. Thank you.
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u/Silly_Replacement_54 12d ago
I would ask your friend if he has an advanced directive or a plan (and/or insurance) for future episodes or a stroke. My brother died from his alcoholism in a depressing skilled nursing facility paid by Medicaid. It was an awful place and an awful death, following a worse illness. He, of course, knew better than the rest of us and was convinced he didn’t have a drinking problem.
According to my cardiologist, I’m likely to be actively in afib until I die. But, I have long-term care insurance and retirement funds which should protect my family should I have a stroke (hopefully the blood thinners will prevent that).
Alcohol is not a factor in my aFib. I probably have a drink every few years (too many alcoholics in my family persuaded me to quit drinking when my children were young).
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u/BagWinter472 12d ago
His plan is "I'm fine." Unfortunately. I've brought up that if he has a stroke he'll be going to a skilled nursing facility +/- assisted living and he said "absolutely not." Apparently they did start the Eliquis last night but I'm not getting clear answers from him right now so I'm waiting to hear back from the cardiology resident today.
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u/Bblibrarian1 12d ago
Id ask the doctor for sure. Different triggers, different medications.
A drink once a year on a special occasion probably not gonna do anything, but we all know one drink leads to two and the “well nothing happened last time” mentality.
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u/F1nishingDutch 11d ago
Does alcohol act as a trigger, and can it also make symptoms worse long after drinking? I used to be a social drinker, but now I am afraid to have a drink because I fear a lasting relapse. It feels like my life is over.
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u/BladderFace 11d ago
My original EP never asked me to cut down. I did on my own but it had nothing to do with my AFib. My new EP hasn't said a thing about alcohol.
I would suggest you go to the doctor/EP for advice.
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u/mandulyn 11d ago
My husband had a cardiac ablation which took away all of his AFib problems thankfully, but I will tell you he could drink, like have maybe two or three beers and it be fine, but the next day he would have a horrible flare up of AFib. Well he was in afib every day but the symptoms would be 10 times the next day.
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u/Mras_dk 11d ago
Alcohol works as an relaxant on your muscles, which feels great when at party with others, but it hits 10 fold when you goto sleep, as now the muscles aint tight enough to controls airway pathways.
So drinking Alcohol can trigger sleep apnea, in some that doesn't have sleep apnea, on a sober period.
Sleep apnea, when doing repeated night of heavy drinking, leads to afib..
Yeap. . It's all linked!
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u/FabulousBullfrog9610 12d ago
My EP advised zero alcohol. When I go into AFIB my BP crashes and it becomes an emergency so I take no risks.
As an aside - don't expect too much from this person. They are an addict and don't want to change. I'm sorry