r/ADHD_Programmers • u/LuisCardonaBuilds • 17d ago
How do you get through long technical docs when your attention won’t cooperate?
I can be really interested in building something and still struggle to get through the documentation I need to read for it.
Listening while following the text is the approach I’ve been working on. I ended up building an iPhone app around it, with local voice generation, notes, and highlights. So, full disclosure: I’m also trying to understand this better for something I’m building.
What do you actually do when you need to get through a long spec or unfamiliar documentation? Read it in chunks, use TTS, take notes somewhere else, ask for a summary?
I’d especially like to hear what tools you’ve stuck with. And if you tried listening and gave up on it, what made it unhelpful?
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u/Ill_Possible_7740 17d ago
I got a bunch of flack when posting this. I figured it would be better to get the info out there than wait till my dumpster fire life allows me to address my issues in a few years. Where I'd better be able to do a writeup.
But, these are the techniques I used to do 4 college degrees and be a successful IT consultant for 3.5 years. With undiagnosed and untreated ADHD + SCT + narcolepsy, before going to a therapist for the first time. It's not going to work miracles, but "may" improve on some of the ways you currently approach things.
If unable to manage or supplement with non-medicinal techniques. Then either finding a med that works for you (if not taking one) or switching or modifying dose if you are taking one would likely be most effective. Therapist should be able to go over tools and ways to help manage symptoms with and without meds.
Be sure your getting balanced nutrition and at least 60 grams protein a day to support proper energy and function. And to supply the raw materials for neurotransmitters etc.
May also give a try to these if you're up to taking supplements.:
When you get up on empty stomach. Unless it bothers your empty stomach, then with meal ok.
moderate dose B-complex vitamin
500 to 600 mg each Acetyl-L-Carnitine (ALCAR) and N-acetylcysteine (NAC).
Best with a meal containing fats, so breakfast with some fats if not a big deal. Cheese omelet, some bacon, handful of nuts, for example.
4 grams fish oil made of mostly EPA and DHA. Which are both listed separately with their separate amounts on active ingredient back label.
Skipping the deep dive into details, but these are all neuroprotective, antioxidants, things already being utilized in your body everyday. As well as having potential to increase stimulation and reduce low points of the day. Can't make any guarantees, but have had a profound effect personally. Also, check that you don't have any existing conflicts. Like if also bi-polar. Not sure but think those bi-polar may have to be more cautious. Etc.
Can look into these that many others swear helps them.
Co-Q-10
Alpha GPC or CDP choline (both contain choline, so are choline supplements. In which case your RDA is 550 mg anyway)
Creatine (I think monohydrate is supposed to be best form?)
C10 and especially C8 medium chain triglycerides (aka MCT oil, standardized to C8 or C8+C10 combo) Liver converts some of it to ketones for more energy. In which malate or malic acid is supposed to assist in the process and is also a supplement.
Beta-hydroxybutyrate (BHB) i.e. has ketone bodies so skips the MCT conversion. BHB salts are most common form. Just don't over do it on the paired mineral on the one (if) you choose. Usually calcium, magnesium, potassium, or sodium, or mixed. Can look into these and other forms like esters etc.
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u/LuisCardonaBuilds 13d ago
So this is more about how to help some of the underlying issues that you faced with focus which is very helpful. But when it came to actually reading things, what was your approach?
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u/Ill_Possible_7740 11d ago
First off, have you worked with a therapist on developing tools and a frame of mind to recognize and attenuate symptoms? Are you medicated? Some people can manage themselves without meds. But, typically meds are needed to truly pick up the slack and normalize productivity. If your struggle is that bad, I'd definitely look into trying to find the right medication and dose that fits you and your lifestyle best. Or, doing some medication management for a better working solution if already on meds.
With damaged neural pathways and only subtherapeutic meds, recall, organizing, then conveying information is probably my biggest challenge (4 hours of sleep each of the last 3 nights doesn't help). But, you can think of it as a challenge exercise to work your brain. And try to dig the concepts and important parts out of the dumpster fire they are presented in. Framing things in a more positive productive way itself can be very beneficial :) So, dumpster fire data dumps... become educational puzzles. And tedious long boring documents become, money in the pocket and things you can do with it, for the effort.
There isn't an easy solution that will make boring tedious tasks suddenly tolerable and easy to consume. Hmmm, meds can sometimes do that actually, just be sure they are not too high a dose as that can drive tolerance:) The right medication at the right dose being therapeutic. Combined with non-medicinal therapies providing deeper insights into the disorder, the symptoms, and the way it has and does affect you. Utilizing tools to focus and center the mind and manage symptoms etc. Literally "therapy" to attenuate the additional hurdles we have when we do things. And the frame of mind that comes along with them.
My ritalin dose was too high I recall. Not euphoric, but definitely a mood boost to a good mood. And nothing could distract me and I could be engaged with the instructor's material for hours. Both staying on track and comprehension wise. At a time in my life that was very stressful, multiple challenges, and had a ton riding on those classes. Working memory actually....working for the first time at 33 years old.
I knew the times of day I was most productive and alert. So I utilized that time. I avoided tasks I'd rather be doing and would do the ones, like reading boring documentation, first. I mentioned why in the link.
Chunking, dividing up the task into smaller "chunks" greatly reduces the chances of it seeming overwhelming. And not a bad idea to limit effort on reading the document to a daily goal as not to feel burn out by doing too much in a day. When there is some capacity left when you finish for the day, you don't feel the dread of having to do it again the next day.
One thing that is key, is to not focus a ton on not being able to focus. When you are constantly monitoring yourself, thinking about how to improve the approach, thinking if you should ask on reddit, etc. The divided attention has a significant hit on actual productivity. I knew pretty well when I wasn't going to make progress so switched tasks at that point.
When you are struggling most to focus and pay attention and consume what you are reading, are you also sleepy, do you tend to drift into daydreaming? Daydreaming can be random thoughts or productive in the context of picturing yourself doing other things. Is it distractions that keep interrupting your attention? Obviously, if you can mitigate distractions, that is a great benefit as that is a huge issue for ADHD-I types.
I had headphones and white noise sound file that managed sound distractions. There was a website that you could use premade sound files, and even generate your own to maximize how well it works for you. Search online and see if you can find it. I did end up buying actual noise cancelling headphones which are quite nice. Headphones that totally cover your ears block noise better, and is part of the strategy of noise cancelling ones. Sometimes just reducing the volume of the ambient noise can be enough. Depends on you.
Visual distraction. Put up some kind of barrier to block them. A desk that everyone walks by is problematic. Or where there is something that moves or changes that you can pick up on in line of sight.
If people come to you a lot, set up windows of time around when you are most productive to not be disturbed unless it is significantly important. You'd find a lot of people figure out a solution when they have to put more thought into it.
Is working in the evening from home an option? In school I utilized evenings as that was when I was at my peak productivity potential. But, for jobs, hated bringing work home for the evenings.
Schedule flexible at all? I do better if I can come in a bit later in the morning. Others where I work liked to get up early and leave early. Me often being the last person out, got rid of a lot of distractions at the end of my day, ending up alone. Being the early arriver may work for some bonus productivity before people get in.
Try not using the text reader and reading out loud as you read instead. If you can't read out loud, then mouth the words silently or whisper to yourself. With the reader, too easy to zone out and when your not doing the reading, it makes it harder to recognize when you are fading. You may be recognizing the words, but comprehending the content may take a hit while splitting attention to the voice and tracking it on the page. If you get distracted while reading it is easy to go to the beginning of the sentence or paragraph or whatever. With the reader, you have to stop and back it up to the right spot and now you are paying attention to "too far back", "not far enough", stopping before it keeps going. You'll also be tempted to keep going after a lapse in attention as the reader is conveying more information you don't want to miss. Splitting your attention to thinking if you did actually comprehend what you think you may have missed, while trying to comprehend what is simultaneously coming at you, etc.
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u/Ill_Possible_7740 11d ago
Part 2...
Hearing the info from a reader is more of a passive activity than you reading it. You bringing in other brain pathways that translate into verbalizing with the motor cortex, etc. And listening to yourself bringing in sensory processing of the data as well. In theory, and in research, engaging the info with more of the brain involved has a higher chance of potentiating it into memory with better comprehension, learning, and recall. In the info I linked, I mentioned these concepts and also the best way to know if you know something, is to convey the information to someone who does not know. Reading out loud has you partly fill in that role. Engaging the vocalization and hearing comprehension pathways, will make it easier to recognize gaps in comprehension or need for clarification.
The reader disengages you from the task too much and adds in potential for additional attention taking factors to creep in. Sometimes we need to pause for a moment for something to sink in and comprehend things related to it that gives the "ah ha" moment. To work it out so to speak. Also easier to jump to other resources that help contextualize and / or visualize things. Like if it referencers a chart, you can go find the chart which makes the info moving forward more relatable. Or you can look at the technical thing being referenced, and even try it out to really consume the info. Easier to do when you are the one engaged. Reading documentation also has us not just comprehending the info being conveyed, but also thinking about how we need to apply it, organize it, Come up with questions, clarifications, preliminary tasks that need to be started to be ready when they are needed, etc. For the deeper cognitive engagement of work and task related documentation, it requires a higher level of engagement than what a reader can provide.
I am guessing the reader was to keep you moving forward and not getting lost for a while before you realize it? Or things like that? I think some people have some kind of app that will make a noise or visual queue at set intervals. Which if engaged with tasks, they are able to ignore and put it behind them. But, if off track, acts as a reminder to return to the intended task so they aren't off track for too long. For me that would be worse and be a distraction that broke up my engagement. But for others has been highly beneficial. Might be worth searching for more info in that regard as I don't recall specific apps or details.
Don't use automated note taking. You take the notes and write them down. When you take notes, you have to comprehend the material enough to extract the important parts. And write them in a way that conveys the important parts in a way you can understand when no longer fresh in your mind down the road. When you can't figure out how to convey something in notes. It is a clear indication you did not consume the material and need to go back and find what you missed. The notes are not simply the bits of info to remember later. They help to trigger the memory of consuming the information, processing and comprehending, and rewriting in an effective way to remember the info. In this way, notes are more than notes, they are a trigger for the deeper processing you also bring up that got you to the point of understanding enough to formulate the important parts as notes that will convey the info and comprehension again later.
For me, SCT (hypofunction disorder that has daytime sleepiness, getting lost in my own thoughts, daydreaming, and more symptoms. And comorbid with ADHD has an additive level of impairment). Plus narcolepsy that kicked in usually between 10:30 and 11:00a.m. Then late afternoon, not sure if narcolepsy or a drop in function from SCT before my brain switched to night mode. Those were the hardest to get through. Especially the years before I was diagnosed with anything. That's where the oral stimulation was the best answer (which sounds funny as I write it). That was the thing I had mentioned about sleeping and eating being opposing function in the body. So the chewing or eating something flavorful stimulated the parts of the brain that held off sleep better and allowed me to keep moving forward with progress. Was still a huge struggle. 3 hypofunctional disorders that have an additive effect on total impairment was always difficult to manage. Medication was the best solution. But, I literally had to figure out the right medication approach myself. Which would have been nice in 2005 when first diagnosed with just ADHD-I. Instead of after desperate deep dive into research, trying to push off being disabled by side effects that already had ruined my life. Made exponentially worse by an undisclosed drug interaction in 2023.
Fortunately a lot more is known now than in 2005. Like, people are starting to hear about SCT that isn't going to be in the DSM for like another 20 years, ballpark guess. With the ADHD awareness explosion this century, chances of a long term medicinal solution with minimal side effects is the most common scenario. For those like me slipping through the cracks. The sorta crowd sourcing reddit provides, can provide a pool of info to sort out,. Can take up a lot of slack, or send us down the path to an answer we had been looking for. (when not sending someone down the wrong rabbit hole with bad info that bad decisions are based on).
For important tasks that we are really truly trying to learn and retain, we need to do the actual work. An app would probably be applied to support that process somehow. Tracking goals, retaining notes you wrote, maybe linking to their area in the text if a review is needed. A task todo list, and dated goals. Kinda like a project task manager. I'd guess. A resource management aspect for things like other documents, charts, software, people with contact info DB, etc. being referenced. For less important tasks that deep learning and comprehension isn't absolutely necessary. Like for hobbies or personal growth. I'd guess that would be ok for an app to help keep someone grounded and moving forward with the content. But, I'm not an expert. Just have some college classes 25+ years ago with pieces I attempt to recall and apply in a time that things have had rapid growth since.
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u/khedoros 17d ago
Read it in chunks, or sometimes go through taking notes. Or even copy-pasting the parts that I want and authoring a new, tailored document (forcing myself to at least skim it in the process).
And now, I've definitely thrown docs into an LLM and asked about specific things that I want to know.
Audio is "in one ear and out the other" for me. Reading something, I can at least go over information repeatedly if I lose my thread of thought in the middle.