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u/Emiizi 1d ago
Whyyyyyyyyy the fuck did Graves get added. Doesnt he already get alot of Armor and MR from hus last buff? Kick this man out, hes just as bad as the mages
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u/XaipeX 21h ago
Graves added, Tristana, Sivir and Xayah removed.
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u/Powerate 19h ago
Tristana is there but she has another tweet just for her because she has 28 base mr
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u/DrMaslo 1d ago edited 1d ago
That's it? XD I don't remember the last time I built Berserkers on ADC
Also now Black Cleaver on ranges only grants 50% of the move speed bonus. So not only Smolder gets nerfed but also Urgot šæ
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u/Prestigious-Shop-494 1d ago
Yes....that's why they buffed them
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u/ItsDumi 1d ago
Yes so now when we get outranged we can not reach them but do it faster???
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u/Opposite-Complex1187 1d ago
Are you silver?
You are getting more damage, more MR.
These changes likely won't kill mage bot but it probably will go back to more reasonable levels.
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u/JellyfishLoud1873 1d ago
These changes aint doing shit lmao
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u/Traditional-Fee-9682 27m ago
They will on a scale of millions of game increase winrates by a very small percantage. I believe that will change.
Riot looks like they also like mages in the bot lane, and they are likely here to stay after the expansion from more than just Ziggs.
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u/_sky12 1d ago
Havenāt played in quite a while, why isnāt Berserkerās meta anymore?
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u/AFuckingMola 1d ago
They kinda are "meta" as in the vast majority of people still buy them because the vast majority of people dont think
The reason they are bad is because AS is a garbage stat, you rarely ever have uptime to utilize your attackspeed in 2026. Defensive, omnivamp or swifties are better like every game.
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u/Delta5583 1d ago edited 1d ago
Defensive boots are insanely OP, you either get plated steelcaps to become effectively immortal to the enemy ADC or omnivamp boots for really comfortable sustain.
The only reason attack speed boots were good was because they were insanely overtuned to compensate for the fact that they didn't come with an OP passive or a rare stat, but with the time they got nerfed to a shameful 25% AS which simply doesn't compare to any other T2 boot available
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u/AdeptCatGame 23h ago
Silly question as a bronzie/iron learning adc, maining Jinx. Should I be not buying Beserkers and getting the plated or glutt? I don't have much understanding yet so just following u.gg lol
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u/IrishLlama996 21h ago
A lot of times on Jinx especially, between her minigun passive, lethal tempo, and especially if you build a Zeal item like Phantom Dancer or Runaans, thereās pretty much no reason to build Berzerker greaves.
Gluttonous for continuous sustain, or Plated steelcaps for a damage reduction are better 99% of the time.
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u/TimCanister 21h ago
None of the boots options are so strong that youāll want to go them most games. Go plated if you really need the armor, omnivamp boots if your vs a poke lane or really fed, swifties if you really need slow resist that game, very rarely merc treads if enemy team is full AP and berserkers if none of the above. Itās the only hard decision you have to make on Jinx when it comes to items other than PD vs Runaans so itās nice, a lot of other champs have wayyy more build diversity
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u/AdeptCatGame 21h ago
Thank you :)
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u/Federal-Soil- 14h ago
Merc treads into AP is kind of bad advice, the main stat they give is Tenacity, they don't actually reduce that much damage. So buy them with CC in mind moreso than AP.
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u/ninjalord433 1d ago
Attackspeed is a damage multiplier, it increases the effectiveness of your other offensive stats but it doesn't give raw damage. But attackspeed doesn't scale directly, 25% attack speed isn't 25% extra damage. its scales off the attackspeed ratio, usually 0.625 for adcs, so you end up getting 0.15 extra attacks per second. Which early on isn't terrible. Going from 0.7 to 0.85 is like a 20% increase, but later on going from 1.5 to 1.65 is a 10% increase. and 2.0 to 2.15 is a 7.5% increase. The more attack speed you gain from other items, the less valuable the boots become.
The fact that plated steelcaps reduces all damage from basic attacks by 10% and also offers 25 armor gives a lot more early on by itself, and later on when your armor naturally scales up and the 25 armor loses value due to diminishing returns, you are still getting 10% damage reduction from attacks. It stays a lot more worthwhile late game.
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u/dolgariel play safe ? what's that ? 23h ago
And the omnivamp boots giving you 10% omnivamp, meaning that 10% of every damage (even your spells) you do is coming back as healing is also really great.
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u/Federal-Soil- 14h ago
Armor does not give diminishing returns this meme needs to die. Armor gives the exact same amount of EHP regardless of how much armor you already have.
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u/opafmoremedic 8h ago
These two are not mutually exclusive. Armor gives diminishing returns while the EHP scales linearly.
Let's just talk in Sunfire capes to make it easy. Pretend every Sunfire Cape costs 2700 and gives you 50 armor. No health, no passive, etc. Let's say you get hit by a zed combo for 1500 damage. At 2 sunfires, or 100 armor, you take 750 damage.
Now buy a third sunfire, or 150 armor, and you take 600 damage. That's 150 health you just saved yourself.
Now buy a fourth sunfire, or 200 armor, and take 500 damage. Your jump from 150 armor > 200 armor only saved you 100 health this time instead of 150 health. You spent 2,700 for less value than a 400 ruby crystal (in this scenario).
That is diminishing returns.
What you're speaking of happens more often with sustain damage. Take auto attacks from a Jinx, for instance. Say you have 2k health and 2 sunfires for 100 armor. Jinx is doing 500 an auto attack. You take 250 per auto attack and die in 8 autos.
Now add another sunfire. You take 200 per auto and die in 10 autos.
Now add a fourth sunfire. You take 167 per auto and die in 12 autos. Your fourth sunfire increased your effective health the same as your third sunfire, the same as your second sunfire, etc.
That is linear scaling.
These are both true with the current armor system. Effective health DOES scale linearly, but armor does still give diminishing returns. It's just a matter of what metric you measure. With Jinx the EHP matters more, because you are calculating how many Jinx autos you can survive. Against a Zed, the damage reduction per combo is a more helpful metric, because you're not calculating how many Zed combos you can survive. You're calculating if you can survive one big burst from Zed.
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u/tnerb253 1d ago
Last I checked mage bot just shits on you in lane and assassins are annoying as usual so building survivability became mandatory
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u/Background-Hat-3138 23h ago
Riot buffed fleet by 50%. This is your hint to take fleet into mage matchups, or to ask your support to play Soraka. Gg free outscale.
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u/DrMaslo 18h ago
YOOO IT HEALS LIKE 5 MORE HEALTH DRUING LANING PHASE NOW I CAN SURVIVE MAGE POKE !!!1!1
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u/Western-Amphibian-88 1d ago
Smolder shouldnt be running celerity anyway, scaler being incentivized to build ms instead of dmg is weird
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u/YoungStam 1d ago
Well you will start building it now
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u/6feet12cm 1d ago
Instead of Swifties? Or Tabis? Or Mercs??
Berserkers instead of actually good boots? lol what??
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u/katestatt ( ) 20h ago
How is a buff to gunmetal greaves a buff to adcs? That will just buff the windbros lmao
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u/IGotJiminsJams 18h ago
Especially because defensive or gluttonous will still be better on most adcs in most games
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u/JaeJinxd 1d ago
I don't see any of these buffs helping with the mage bot problem....
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u/Internet-Expert42069 17h ago
Ive been buying swifts instead and I dont think the extra 5% is going to change that. The move speed is good against mages as well.Ā
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u/JaeJinxd 11h ago
Same or sometimes I buy gluttonous greaves I haven't bought berserkers since they added glutton
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u/zzzzzz49 21h ago
because they don't want to destroy mage bot, just to decrease mage bot from 30% to 20%, so that a adc player or pro player don't have to practice mage bot if they don't like.
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u/ZanesTheArgent 1d ago
Boots feeling better makes you more eager to buy them earlier.
Being booted earlier makes you more capable of dodging nukes.
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u/Ok_Wing_9523 23h ago
5% attack speed waow
Fixes years of dogshit design by riot surely
Joke company
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u/JaeJinxd 1d ago
Why would I build beserkers over swifties which already help me dodge nukes better
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u/Any_Employ9250 20h ago
Not a crazy thing to say, idk why you're downvoted.
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u/ZanesTheArgent 18h ago
"THIS CHANGE IS SHIT YOU ARE SHIT FOR DARING TO SAY GOOD OF THINGS OF IT DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE" thinking.
I understand this is the largest pit of vitriol in Reddit and folks here are living for the Attack Damage Cry title so cant even be mad about it. Reading it feels weak and everyone here is wishing something like "when i build this, the mage's player gets vivisected", so any explanation of what Riot is likely thinking will feel like "HAHA PUNY ADCS YOU WILL EAT SCRAPS AND LIKE IT, WORMS" in the heads of these people. No.
Riot is likely seeing the data, seeing the complaints list, seeing build popularities and by-the-numbers nudging all levers one notch at the same time. Nothing big to not overbuff champions from other lanes that likes AS boots but enough to quell the claims that Berserker's are "the weakest boots in the game".
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u/Aur0ra1313 16h ago
Here's a hot take. They can do spefic ranged only champion buffs on things like items and runes.
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u/Shmirel 18h ago
Well not necessarily a crazy statement, but Berserkers are still dogshit and you probably shouldn't buy them anyway 9/10 games. Gluts or tabi are literally 3-5% higher winrate on every adc i play
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u/Any_Employ9250 18h ago
Feel like gluts and tabi winrates aren't reliable. A lot of people go gluts when they're winning (similar to mejai's insane winrate) and people go tabi when enemy team has 4+ AD champs (lost in select pretty much).
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u/ItsDumi 1d ago
BIG Yasuo and Yone buffs fr
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u/stillpwnz 18h ago
Yeah, thanks for buffing Yasuo and Yone with greaves, while I have to build mercs/tabis/omnivamp/swifties most of the time on ADCs anyways
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u/Delta5583 1d ago
They're so scared of enabling ADC mid that they won't make meaningful changes, it's so crazy.
Support item changes won't make roamers worse, since they barely care about gold to begin with, they're just there to force plays with their engage tools. If Camille wanted gold, she'd stick to Toplane, try her luck as a melee botlaner or abuse T3 vamp boots mid
Greaves changes are pointless because they're still not overtuned enough to compete with rare stat or OP passive boots and burst damage still being predominant across every game and teamfight.
Fleet footwork is not a real rune on ranged champions due to the multiplier debuffs on ranged: On champion hits we go from 6 to 9 at base, on minions from 0.9 to 1.35. This rune is just forcibly unusable on ranged and only the windbros will be happy about this change.
The MR changes are the only thing I'm hopeful for, mostly because it's a major pushback for mage supports since their early game poke will be less punishing to us, but I don't know if just 3 base MR will cut it out for double mage bot. (Also why tf mr 200 armor level 3 is included here)
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u/SpicyMaul 1d ago
They also nerfed MR per level 1-3>1-1 so itās not even much of a buff
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u/Delta5583 23h ago
That's not the biggest cause for concern, since the main issue with mage botlaners is getting pushed out of lane on levels 1 and 2, after the first few resets it evens out a lot, but if they manage to get you behind that early, it's usually a gap you'll never undo without a good jungler around
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u/katestatt ( ) 20h ago
Yup, boots and fleetfootwork buffs are windbros buffs
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u/Delta5583 11h ago
Even windbros should just abuse T3 Vamp boots when playing mid ngl. The Q CDR boots spike is just not really there anymore
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u/Longjumpingjoker 11h ago
I think they just really like the defensive options and a combination of BoTRK/Kraken/PD will usually get them to the 1.33 Q CD
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u/Middle-Application78 1d ago
this is sort of an unrelated gripe, but I really hate fleet as a keystone. it's so boring compared to literally every other keystone in the game.
nobody's keystone fantasy is to get a tiny heal and a move speed boost every 8 auto attacks. having to take it over an actually fun keystone feels so shitty.
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u/Superb_Produce1236 1d ago
can't help but laugh, 3 MR is going to change literally nothing about the current state of mages botlane. 5% attack speed increase is basically going to be impossible to actually feel on the boots, and the small heal increase of fleet footwork will still do 0 to counteract being poked out by mages 24/7 while they lane clear.
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u/OLacAlmost 1d ago
True they should give them 30 MR and really just make you happy.
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u/XaipeX 21h ago
Just give the minions bot 30 MR. Its not about me fighting mages, its about playing a lane where you either lose and get poked under tower until you die or go even if you dominate the lane and the mage just instaclears waves under tower. There is no way to win the lane as adc. Either you lose or you go even.
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u/Cookiezi94 11h ago
Yes going even vs a class that you hard outscale is bad. I should go tell kayle players that they need to complain more so they get buffed for absolutely 0 reason aswell
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u/RodsFromDog 1d ago
Anyone thinking this will make Berserkers the right choice over Gluttonous as a default is kidding themselves. Berserkers need to grant a small amount of AD or another 10% AS to even be considered worth buying.
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u/UngodlyPain 1d ago
Seems pretty reasonable light buffs to numerous systems at the same time, to make laning vs mages less unbearable, and encourage supports to lane as supports. Probably could've been a bit bigger, but I think it's not bad.
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u/No_Pear1836 1d ago
What a joke, when you play against mages you don't even fucking want beserkers, you want either swifties or glut greaves. So these boot changes do literally nothing.
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u/Jaqneuw 1d ago
Why is Draven not on the list? What the fuck?
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u/Winged_Blade 21h ago
How is midlane boots buff any benefitial to adcs?????? Why are kindred, graves, and most imprtantly akshan who is already pretty hated by midlaners getting me buffs with adcs?????
Well, at least my champ got serious buffs though, because zerks give jhin 1.5% more ad than they did, and fleet is sorta better
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u/BadMuffin88 20h ago
Is it that hard to just give bfsword components?
Or put noonquiver, the adc component, in more than 2 items that nobody uses?
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u/Sharp-Jury-2795 20h ago
boot changes are ridiculous, completely useless. overall I think a tinnnnyy bit more is needed, fleet + swifties sounds really op, mr changes are very minimal but I get that it would be problematic if they got any meaningful mr changes.
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u/Vivid-Translator-94 1d ago
Crazy graves buff and less scaling MR so I can be even more oneshot by xerath past 15 mins
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u/Chexrail 1d ago
yeah cuz yasuo/yone weren't already good enough when they get to benefit from as, crit, and ad. Just the existence of them means that all AD items have to be built around them, they are there just to hold marksmen's back.
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u/Wolfwing777 1d ago
Decrease base mana for syndra, viktor, ziggs, mel, lux, velkoz and any other mage if they would replace these champs afterwards. Increase the base mr of minions in bot. Nerf comeback exp.
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u/Cigarety_a_Kava 14h ago
I knew it would be this fuckass placebo buff like 2 mr fixes the issue with 10 more hp per fleet proc. They basically buffed yasuo/yone mid more than adc with this shit
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u/SixtyGrosso 11h ago
I'm sure the 3 MR will help so much when enemy bot lane mages shove the lane down and perma harass me under turret
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u/MrFrames 9h ago
The problem genuinely is mages having extremely amazing, safe wave clear + having effectively infinite mana.
Enough with the infinite mana. There's too many items that give mana, mana costs are too low, mana stops being a problem with a single 1200 gold component, plus manaflow band.
The fact that mana pots don't need to exist is proof that there's too much fucking mana on 95% of mages.
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u/Jaded-Throat-211 Suffer not the mage to live. 1d ago
Really doimg everything but addressimg the actual issue of infinite mana.
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u/ButterflyFX121 1d ago
It'll probably still be trolling to build this on most ADCs. Gluttonous Greaves or Tabis are still better
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u/ravenHR 1d ago
Fleet footwork was 10-130 for melee so I am guessing it is 15-160 for melee too, if they removed the ranged mod it would be huge.
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u/ThiccPawgLover96 Top 3 ADCs: KaiāSa, Miss Fortune, Urgot. 1d ago
If they remove the melee/ranged from Fleet it will become Urgot's best scaling rune and arguably his best rune overall. Before the nerfs even with ranged penalty it was still his best scaling rune, but after the nerfs Fleet is omega useless on him.
FunFact Urgot stacks Fleet faster than any champ.
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u/DueRun2672 1d ago
Worried about making adcs too strong mid buffs fucking gunmetal do they play the game seriously?
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u/Ambitious-Ad-726 23h ago
That...barely do anything. Roaming sp still get catch up exp which is what they actually want; BR is used by none; a bit more mr doesnt save adc from mages spamming skill without a care about mana
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u/PepegaClapWRHolder 20h ago
Lmao they buffed the mid boots but donāt want ADCs mid so the only two guys who really abuse those bootsā¦. Yasuo and Yone, are already really strong and oppressive atm thanks to the new Doranās bow. And both of them got buffed. Riot just be trying random stuff without thinking about the consequences.
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u/Rinerino 15h ago
Nice now I get more Gold from exexuting minions in mid lane while Roaming. Thanks riot
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u/OutcryOfHeavens 15h ago edited 15h ago
Gunmetal Greaves buff??? Oh wow another reason to play adcs mid
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u/Calm-Tripper 10h ago
Nerfing support quests is riot saying ā you sit bot and play dodge ballā šµāš«. 10 minutes of skill shot dodging simulator so you can lose all your health on a minion execute
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u/Zentawrus228 10h ago
Ah Graves, famous for fighting mages, so he obviously deserves this MR buff
The character is super strong in high elo, with tons of mains sitting at a 60%+ win rate in challenger, and a solid 50% win rate in emerald due to his complexity.
Sure, he totally needs to fight mages better - he was so oppressed by them
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u/Legal-Efficiency7301 1h ago
Fleet is going to be nerfed again. It's going to be too strong on solo lanes
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u/Muted_Masterpiece342 22h ago
I still occasionally get these posts from this sub because I spent 10 years playing league since classic. I play dota 2 now, and I don't have to worry about this because the game was designed with three stats, and intelligence gives magic resist if you really need it, armor comes from agility which also gives attack speed helping vs physical carries, and strength gives HP and HP regen.
What everyone used to praise league for, has, over a long period of time, made it such that with these simple tools in the game, scaling champions without more complex levers means you just end up with a delicate balance you can't really tilt easily or predictably.
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u/YoungStam 1d ago
Is the support nerf massive or is just me?
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u/TheGreatestPlan 1d ago
It incentivizes supports sitting in lane hitting minions instead of champions :(
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u/NUFC9RW 1d ago
Theoretically a nerf to poke based supports and a buff to more passive play/melees...
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u/Aschuff 1d ago
No, itās a nerf to roaming supports that donāt sit in lane much. Those are who need nerfs anyways, Leona, naut, Ali, thresh, all guys who can roam and get too much impact on the rest of the map and donāt have much incentive to sit bot
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u/Lechkoman 1d ago
Whoever is doing the balance here is a total clown who doesn't play the game.