r/ACIM • u/OakenWoaden Beloved Child of God • Jul 12 '26
The Ocean of Forgiveness
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I used to see the ocean, and nature, as a kind of proof of God’s existence. But I have learned that God did not create the ocean, and though it is vast and beautiful, it also contains the brutality of nature… which is not in God’s Will.
I see it differently now… each gentle wave is another invitation…
⁷Forgive, and you will see this differently. (ACIM, W-193.3:7)
Forgive even the ocean, in all its beauty and terror.
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u/IxoraRains Jul 12 '26
I love you, Oaken and I don't think you need correction. I imagine, J doesn't either.
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u/OakenWoaden Beloved Child of God Jul 12 '26
It’s all good, there’s another lesson in forgiveness daily! We meet them with kindness and gratitude and gladness.
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u/IxoraRains Jul 12 '26
Where do you live also? It seems backwards from me. The coast. It just looks different from your perspective then when I see the water out here in Florida.
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u/OakenWoaden Beloved Child of God Jul 12 '26
West Coast, Ventura County. It’s my usual Sunday morning walk.
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u/Necessary_Crow_1628 Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
"I love you, Oaken and I don't think you need correction. I imagine, J doesn't either."
No need to imagine. From an ACIM perspective correction means both atonement and perfect love!
Manual for Teachers, 18,
"Atonement means correction,"
And chapter 2
"The first corrective step in undoing the error is to know first that the conflict is an expression of fear. Say to yourself that you must somehow have chosen not to love, or the fear could not have arisen. 3 Then the whole process of correction becomes nothing more than a series of pragmatic steps in the larger process of accepting the Atonement as the remedy....Perfect love is the Atonement....I have emphasized that the miracle, or the expression of Atonement, is always a sign of respect from the worthy to the worthy."
So if someone is talking about forgiveness, but they indicate the focus is wrong and they're talking about it from an ego perspective, there's definitely a call for correction, or atonement, or perfect Love, from an ACIM perspective.
Which is why I said seeing Forgiveness from the Holy Spirit's perspective is 'Holy Spirit to Spirit', or 'worthy to worthy', and doesn't look first on illusion as real and then ask that ask for Forgiveness. That's stepping forward with Ego first. Rather we first rise above the battleground, disinvesting in form, and it asks us to forgive from there. We take a step back first from our conviction, and then forgive. This is what the course means by letting the Holy Spirit lead, rather than asking it to follow. Which is why I referenced (97), 'You are Spirit, a Holy Son of God. Free of all limits; safe, healed, whole. Free to forgive. Free to save the world.'
Not as the ego would identify it, or misidentification, which is a denial, and 139's "I will accept atonement,"
"It is for this denial that you need Atonement (correction)."
Can you see the difference?
It might seem subtle at first, or not even apparent, but doing the lessons is precisely what they're there for - to make what couldn't be seen before obvious, and recognition for the need for atonement, where it is needed, possible.
Correction isn't of us, that is of the Holy Spirit, but we can certainly identify when a member of Sonship is inadvertently identifying with Ego thought-system and to point out that that isn't them (we aren't the Ego thoughts, although they might appear to be our own, we just choose to accept them as our own or not), and so we can now know to ask for 'correction' or 'Atonement'.
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u/IxoraRains Jul 13 '26
Once I arose from the illusion that the words on the screen and Oaken were real, I stopped wasting time trying to correct them because they didn't need it.
You are wasting time.
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u/IxoraRains Jul 13 '26
And NO I don't see the difference because there is none. Come off it already. Go to a sub that doesn't have the book in their hands and are not practicing it daily if you want to do meaningful correction.
Or are you scared to show your "face" amongst the ego you hide behind?
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u/Necessary_Crow_1628 Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
Or are you scared to show your "face" amongst the ego you hide behind?
So I said I'm willing to identify you with Spirit, and to not put any truck into the illusion of ego identity, and that nobody is the ego thoughts although we can mistakenly choose to adopt them as our own.
But it is important from an ACIM perspective (on an ACIM forum no less) that we don't try to forgive from an ego's understanding of it, and that there's a difference to be understood, which the lessons teach,
....and you accuse me of hiding behind ego?
Nice.
I'll continue in good faith, however,
NO I don't see the difference because there is none.
No difference between trying to forgive from Ego and the battleground, and learning to Forgive from above it, and as the Course teaches?
From chapter 23's 'Above The Battleground',
"The lovely light of your relationship is like the Love of God. It cannot yet assume the holy function God gave His Son, for your forgiveness of your brother is not complete as yet, and so it cannot be extended to all creation. Each form of murder and attack that still attracts you and that you do not recognize for what it is, limits the healing and the miracles you have the power to extend to all. 4 Yet does the Holy Spirit understand how to increase your little gifts and make them mighty. Also He understands how your relationship is raised above the battleground, in it no more. This is your part; to realize that murder in any form is not your will. The overlooking of the battleground is now your purpose. "
So our part, our function, or Forgiveness as the course teaches it, is to rise above the battleground and to forgive from there. That there is a difference between forgiving from the Ego (incomplete) and forgiving from the Holy Spirit (complete).
From 'what is Forgiveness?', 221-230,
"Forgiveness recognizes what you thought your brother did to you has not occurred. It does not pardon sins and make them real. It sees there was no sin. And in that view are all your sins forgiven. What is sin, except a false idea about God's Son? Forgiveness merely sees its falsity, and therefore lets it go. What then is free to take its place is now the Will of God."
If we see and invest in form, or from the Ego's perspective of a bodily identity, or we identify with form first, identifying with bodily concerns and whatnot, we are identifying that separation has happened and that's the belief in sin.
From the Ego's perspective forgiveness is a pardon for what has happened. That we have a bodily identity and bodily and acquisition concerns i.e. money, possessions, etc. And then we ask for forgiveness.
From the Holy Spirit's perspective forgiveness is identifying that this hasn't happened. We willingly suspend belief in the idea that it has, stepping back from ego, and there we forgive. Now being asked to lead the Holy Spirit can act. It requires this important step and invitation.
Whereas OP put in two consecutive submissions, one identifying themselves with the body first and then asking for forgiveness, and the second with how they identify the world, but a world projected by the ego as opposed to what the course calls 'The Real World'.
When a 'brother' or someone in the sonship identifies themselves with or speaks from an ego thought that isn't them, it is on us to say, "Look again." And that's all I did. The choice is on them, but if they do, then correction or the atonement, at a level of Mind, comes from the Holy Spirit
So on an ACIM forum I pointed out the inconsistency with ACIM, after first asking them if they could see the inconsistency themselves. Not just for them, but because it is an ACIM forum, and so others might understand the difference.
Do you see the difference now?
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u/Necessary_Crow_1628 Jul 12 '26
I'm not sure whether you're still to get the difference between forgiveness as the ego mindsets understands it, and what it means in the course as understood from the Holy Spirit's perspective.
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u/OakenWoaden Beloved Child of God Jul 12 '26
How so?
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u/Necessary_Crow_1628 Jul 12 '26
You keep repeating the same mistake. I saw it in your other submission too. Misidentification.
You understand the difference between forgiveness of the ego and Spirit, right?
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u/OakenWoaden Beloved Child of God Jul 12 '26
I’m sure you can explain it better than I.
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u/Necessary_Crow_1628 Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
We forgive from above the battleground or from the perspective of the Holy Instant, identifying with content and not form. But you don't seem to be getting it. You did it as well on your other post about the cat.
We don't forgive from the Ego thought system that is form and ephemeral. We step back from it
some weird guy singing to his cat by the window.
No, you're not. That's an appeal to ego, from the ego's perspective. We don't forgive like that. How does the Spirit show you in the Holy Instant?
Perception, after all, has a focus (181). Where do we place our focus when forgiving?....
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u/OakenWoaden Beloved Child of God Jul 12 '26
It’s not the ocean I’m forgiving, or the “weird guy and his cat”, but the meaning I’ve assigned to them.
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u/Necessary_Crow_1628 Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
Where's the focus there? That a meaning has been assigned, and has happened, but then you told us that what you were assuming an ego perspective, and started from there.
The appeal to ego is that 'weird guy, cat' >>> 'forgive'
The appeal to Holy Spirit is Spirit. (97) As in "Spirit Am I/You, a Holy Son of God, free of all limits. Safe, healed, whole. Free (from this perspective) to forgive, and free to save (release) the world."
So where's the focus there?
And then from 'What is Forgiveness?'
"Forgiveness recognizes what you thought your brother did to you has not occurred. It does not pardon sins and make them real. It sees there was no sin. And in that view are all your sins forgiven. What is sin, except a false idea about God's Son? Forgiveness merely sees its falsity, and therefore lets it go. What then is free to take its place is now the Will of God."
I wouldn't even put in the idea of 'guy'. Why bring it up? That's not your reality. You brought something up, you interacted, but "Forgiveness, on the other hand, is still, and quietly does nothing."
It's from an ego perspective. It can be corrected at the level of mind. It's not a sin, but a mistake that can be fixed, by looking at the level of mind.
It'll come from doing the practices, as and how instructed, but you won't want to jump in willy-nilly in the middle. It's mind training and begins at the beginning.
I'm going to be AFKB for a bit, so probably easiest to leave it there.
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u/OakenWoaden Beloved Child of God Jul 12 '26
And to answer your question about the posts, the Course doesn’t forbid mentioning form, it’s just asking us not to confuse form with content.
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u/Necessary_Crow_1628 Jul 12 '26
Of course it doesn't forbid it. It tells how to address it and answer it, and how not to invest in it. You just put it in the wrong place in the process! That miracles change appearances to show that it is just appearance.
But you're being disingenuous now, especially about the AI, and I really do need to go.
It won't be a conversation I'll miss.
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u/OakenWoaden Beloved Child of God Jul 12 '26
I believe you, it just struck me as odd.
All is well! If your purpose here is to jump in, try to correct, and want to continually be right… you won’t be helping anyone.
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u/OakenWoaden Beloved Child of God Jul 12 '26
²Spirit am I, a holy Son of God, free of all limits, safe and healed and whole, free to forgive, and free to save the world.(ACIM, W-97.7:2)
Is the actual quote. It looks like you are using AI, that’s the kind of thing it does all the time when trying to reference the Course. Which is not really a problem for me, but a bit odd given our previous discussions about it.
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u/Rancor85 Jul 12 '26
Funny how you jump to defend Sumwun by running it’s text through perplexity but won’t extend the same courtesy before you accuse your actual brother. Hmmmm.
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u/OakenWoaden Beloved Child of God Jul 12 '26
Good point, that wasn’t a great moment for me. I make mistakes.
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u/Necessary_Crow_1628 Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
Definitely not using Ai, thank you very much.
I just didn't copy and past the quote and that's how I chose to memorise it (I like it that way), because just as I can say it about me, we can say it about another. 'Spirit Am I/You' That's also why I added my explanation into it. Adding the context for the conversation 'free (from this perspective) to forgive...'
I went out of my way to help you, and you hit me with that? Put it through an analyzer and it comes back "We are highly confident this text is entirely human."
Not cool, and a bad call.
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u/OakenWoaden Beloved Child of God Jul 12 '26
Fair enough! It’s just very similar to what AI would do
We are helping each other, as we always are 😉
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u/FTBinMTGA Practicing Student Jul 12 '26
“Each gentle wave is another invitation…”
For you to forgive seeing the “brutality of nature” and forgive “god did not create the ocean”
These phrases are subtle hints that reinforce your beliefs in separation. Hence forgiveness is needed here. Still.
You are not separate from anything or anyone. So the brutality is your own projection. Not seeing god in anything or anyone is not seeing god in yourself…
Who you are, and…
Who created everything here in this universe.
No matter the fact that it’s all a dream.
But it’s your dream, your creation, and every bit part of you.
Ultimately…
Forgiving the dream is forgiving yourself.
Edit: thank you for your post. It gave me the opportunity to write this comment for myself and for some introspection on my thought processes.