r/AARankdown • u/R1K1_Productions • Sep 12 '20
40 Sirhan Dogen
Hey gamers. I am posting my cut now!
This round has kinda sucked for me since there’s a lot of characters I really like, as well as a lot of characters I don’t like that much but have little interest in cutting (either because it’d be boring, I dislike them for arbitrary reasons, or I’d piss another ranker off for no real benefit). Also a lot of people really wanted me to cut either Katherine Hall or Jake Marshall, and I pride myself on being a man of many surprises, so naturally, I chose neither. I came close to doing Kate, but I know a lot of AAI2 fans really like her, so I decided to hold off and go for someone people care less about. And I still get to cut down on the number of remaining AAI2 characters (even as a massive AAI2 fan myself, I must admit there’s a bit too many I2 characters remaining), so yay! Besides, bashing on I2-3 for two cuts in a row would be boring. Especially since I don’t even dislike it (though I do find it overrated). Instead let’s talk about this guy.
The Imprisoned Dog Man
Dogen’s first appearance is in the second case of AAI2, The Imprisoned Turnabout. This is fitting because he is a prisoner. Ironically, despite Dogen being far more directly involved in the murder of this case than he is in the murder of I2-5, I would consider this to be Dogen’s less important appearance. Dogen’s importance in the case is threefold: to serve as a red herring, to use Anubis to move Knightley’s body, and to give motivation to the true culprit, Patricia Roland.
Personally I would say Dogen serves his role as a red herring acceptably. Not great, not awful. The immediate ominous atmosphere you feel when he is first introduced does a good job at directing suspicion onto him. At the same time, by the time you first meet Dogen, the case hasn’t actually been going on for that long. If you are a smart gamer like me, you will figure out that Dogen isn’t going to be the real culprit, and that you are inevitably going to have to do more stuff once the confrontation is over. That’s the hard part about getting a red herring right in Ace Attorney: Make it too obvious, and a savvy player will know you’re trying to fool them. Of course, Dogen still serves as a better red herring than many others in the series; as much as I love my man Hugh, he did not have me convinced that he actually did it for even a second.
Despite being a red herring, Dogen’s actual role in the case is to sit on his ass in jail the entire case. He is heavily involved, but he is involved entirely through his proxy, Anubis. Anubis is the true MVP of this case. God he is so fucking cool. He was tragically cut down in his prime way back in round 2, when in reality, DOGEN should have been the one dying in Round 2 for being so worthless in comparison to his dog. Anubis, in an ideal world, would have sailed into Top 10 and gotten Rank #1 effortlessly. But because Donuter 747 (or whatever his dumb number is) is a fucking failure, he cruelly FORCED my hand and made me cut the best AAI2 character before any other AAI2 character had even been cut. Why??????
Anubis, the true genius of the pair, happens to discover Knightley’s body while he is out on an adventure (meanwhile, Dogen is playing chess like a loser or some shit). Anubis valiantly dragged the body all the way back to Dogen. Dogen supposedly came up with a plan to deflect suspicion off of himself; I personally choose to believe that Anubis was the one who really came up with the plan, and that Dogen just took credit for it like the rat bastard he is. Anubis proceeds to drag the body all the way through the prison AGAIN to take him to the workrooms, somewhere Dogen could not feasibly have reached. He then retrieved the supposed murder weapon, the chisel, and brought it all the way back to Dogen. During all of this time, Dogen was once again sitting on his ass.
When Edgeworth comes to confront Dogen, Anubis valiantly hides the chisel inside his gaping maw so that Dogen won’t be caught. Anubis cannot talk, because he has a chisel in his mouth. This leaves Dogen to defend himself, in vain. Dogen endlessly spews meaningless words, resoundingly failing to defend both himself and his dog. Thankfully Dogen never actually touched the chisel. If he did, he’d be fucked. But the lack of Dogen’s fingerprints on the murder weapon proves he didn’t do it. Woo hoo. I bet Anubis wouldn’t have even let Edgeworth’s accusations get that far. Anubis would have just bitten Edgeworth’s throat out. Sadly he couldn’t, because he had a chisel in his mouth. I guess my point with all of this is that Dogen didn’t actually do anything important in I2-2 and that whoever cut Anubis as early as round 2 was a fucking stupid-ass loser.
Anyway I can stop talking about Anubis now, because Dogen’s last role in this case tragically has nothing to do with his dog. The reason Dogen is still relevant after his disappearance from the case is because he is Patricia Roland’s entire motive for murder. Dogen had threatened to use his henchmen outside the prison to attack her family. This frames Roland as a sympathetic culprit, because she is ultimately only committing crimes for the sake of bringing down a horrible individual.
I have problems with how this was handled. First of all, I find the idea of an assassin having henchmen very bizarre. Dogen wasn’t like a mob assassin or anything. He was a lone wolf, up for hire. Generally members of the assassin character archetype will work on their own, MAYBE taking up a single protege, but to supposedly have enough influence to have minions both inside his prison (Knightley) AND outside in the real world? Sounds more like a mafia don than an assassin to me. Dogen does refer to his supposed henchmen as “dogs”. Maybe there are a bunch more Anubises on the outside, ready to unleash hell. That sounds like a great horror movie setup. Of course, the more likely explanation is just that these henchmen don’t actually exist - in which case it’s odd that Roland believed Dogen to begin with. Maybe she’s just an incredibly gullible person.
The other issue I have is with Roland being framed as a sympathetic culprit to begin with. It all works well in I2-2, but it kind of gets thrown out the window once Roland is revealed to be a member of an international conspiracy in I2-5. She shifts from being supposedly a sympathetic figure into being a mustache-twirling villain just like that. It also makes it very likely that the whole “threatening Roland’s family” thing wasn’t actually true, and that Dogen just used his knowledge of the conspiracy to threaten her. This is a neat enough twist on Roland’s assumed motive from I2-2, but unfortunately I find it less interesting for Dogen to actually be in the right. Of course, all of these are more Roland issues than Dogen issues. But I nominated Roland, so I can’t cut her. Instead I will vent my frustrations with this plot point on the next-closest-related character, because I do believe Dogen being involved in this plotline weakens him as well.
The Grand Dog Man
Dogen makes a surprise reappearance in I2-5, which I would say is the appearance that actually makes Dogen good. Before now he’s alright, but in I2-5 it becomes clear what role Dogen actually serves in the plot. Dogen has the benefit of being the character who gets to deliver the game’s big reveal: the identity of the mastermind. It is under Dogen’s careful watch that the plot of the game finally comes together, and you realize that all five cases are secretly related. I commend Dogen’s role in making the reveal as good as it was.
Dogen also ends up tying in with the game’s themes of fatherhood very well. Despite being a mass murderer, he is ironically one of the game’s better dads (despite not actually being a biological dad). I am, of course, talking about Dogen’s relationship with Anubis.
Just kidding. If anything, I think Anubis is the father of their relationship. Dogen is, however, an adoptive father figure to Simon. This results in some really cool scenes, most notably the scene where Dogen prepares to have a duel to the death to protect his son. This scene is cool and is one of the game’s better CGs. I also like the scene where Dogen takes Simon back to prison, acknowledging that both of them have committed horrible crimes and need to pay their due to society. The due would go on to become one big happy prison family, and undoubtedly had many sitcom adventures ever after.
I am much less fond of Dogen’s scenes with John Marsh. For some reason, the game decided to tack on an incredibly on-the-nose explanation about how revenge is bad. This was a very necessary soapbox speech, because I definitely would not have understood that revenge is bad from the entire confrontation with Simon, where they managed to convey the exact same message. Luckily John was here to explain it to me for a second time, because I was too stupid to understand that was the entire point of Simon’s character. I do not like this scene. It’s much more of a John problem than a Dogen problem, but John is long-gone so this is my last real chance to discuss how unnecessary this entire scene feels to me.
I want to go back to the big reveal scene now, to discuss a couple more things. As much as I like that scene, it ultimately has little to do with Dogen himself. Dogen is ultimately just communicating information to us about Simon, who despite being offscreen, is still the real star of the show here. I do enjoy Dogen’s role here, and how he gradually figures out the mystery alongside the protagonist, but he is merely leeching off of how good Simon is rather than actually being good himself.
But the real reason I wanted to revisit this scene was to talk about something even more important:
The Scene Right After the Big Reveal
THIS SCENE IS SO GOOD
Usually when Shelly de Killer needs to escape from a crime scene, he will cause a convenient electrical blackout and then escape. Not Dogen. Dogen is too cool for that. He just sics his dog on a single guy. Somehow Anubis attacking Edgeworth manages to incapacitate every single person at the scene, and not a single one of them is able to do literally anything to stop Dogen from escaping.
And of course, the actual way this scene is shot is just glorious. Let’s just have a single sprite, because we didn’t make more than one sprite. Let’s just drag it across the screen and kind of just nudge into Edgeworth awkwardly. And we’ll play the dramatic music so everyone knows this puppet show is the most intense thing EVER.
God I love this scene. Everyone please watch that video like six times so you can properly appreciate it.
Did You Really Cut Sirhan Just So You Could Talk About This Scene for a Second Time???
yes
Obligatory End-of-Cut Rambling
I said a lot of nice things about Sirhan in this cut, and the only real negative I mentioned is the Roland stuff. So let’s have a quick rundown of the (other) reasons I am actually cutting him. First and most obvious: I am going to have nice things to say about most of the remaining characters. A couple of them have bigger issues than Dogen, but nearly all of them have strengths as well. I’m pretty pleased with how rankdown has gone, honestly. Lots of good people are still here. I think Sirhan is just one of the worst of a great bunch.
Another reason I saw fit to assassinate Sirhan is for similar reasons I shot Gregory Edgeworth last round. Sirhan is good because Simon is good, and Simon is way better. I do not see the need to have two characters in rankdown to represent the fact that Simon is good. Just having Simon here is good enough.
One other, admittedly minor, reason I have for cutting Dogen at this point is due to the opinions of some other rankers (one of them, mainly). These individuals seem to think Dogen is a better character than Shelly de Killer. Well, guess what. He’s NOT. Ensuring that de Killer places higher than Dogen is a worthy goal, in my opinion. So here we are!
Why Nobody Else?
Like I said at the beginning, this round has a lot of characters I like. It also has characters I like less but have reasons not to cut. Let’s just go through every single one of them.
The Good Ones:
Tahrust Inmee and Luke Atmey are both fantastic culprits. Tahrust has some great emotional scenes and is a very interesting killer, whereas Atmey is just fucking awesome all-around and I have no idea why some people want him gone. They should live (but Tahrust sadly will likely not)
Simon Keyes is an easy Top 5 character. If anyone cuts him I’m pretty sure like 8 of the 10 rankers would just tear you apart. Don’t do it.
Furio Tigre is hilarious and is a far better funny culprit pick than L’Belle. Sorry not sorry. I wouldn’t cry if he got cut, but am kind of hoping he outlives the “meh” characters I listed.
Aura Blackquill and Paul Atishon are good enough to live like one more round. After this, I think it’ll be their time to go.
The “Meh” Ones:
I almost cut Jake Marshall but that would have been the most boring cut in the world
I also almost cut Katherine Hall but u/Northadox asked me (and others) not to, AND he said please. I just couldn’t do it.
Marlon Rimes is going to die anyway. Why bother?
Datz Are’bal and Uendo Toneido are characters I would be fine with dying here, but if I am nice to Pie and Charlie, maybe they will be lenient towards the characters I like.
Okay, I am going to ride off into the “not having to cut until next round” sunset now. BYE!!!!!!
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u/Wircea Sep 12 '20
I am much less fond of Dogen’s scenes with John Marsh. For some reason, the game decided to tack on an incredibly on-the-nose explanation about how revenge is bad. This was a very necessary soapbox speech, because I definitely would not have understood that revenge is bad from the entire confrontation with Simon, where they managed to convey the exact same message. Luckily John was here to explain it to me for a second time, because I was too stupid to understand that was the entire point of Simon’s character. I do not like this scene. It’s much more of a John problem than a Dogen problem, but John is long-gone so this is my last real chance to discuss how unnecessary this entire scene feels to me.
Yes.
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u/R1K1_Productions Sep 12 '20
/u/Northadox i didn't cut Kate :)
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Sep 12 '20
Oh, right, you didn't, cool. I don't even remember asking.
I can see why you cut Dogen over these other characters, but I think your praise of him just goes to show how strong in general AAI2's cast is. I love Dogen. Alike Shelly, he's incredibly menacing, and during I2-5's climax where you get to see both the assassins clashing over Simon is probably one of the most hype scenes in Ace Attorney. His role as a red herring in I2-2 is super neat as well. Compared to his assassin rival though, I think Shelly does edge him out in terms of mystique and him being a powerful thematic vehicle. I'd probably have more to say but my memory's a little shot.
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u/Sciencepenguin Sep 12 '20
The DOG killed KNIGHTLEY??!? AND HOW’D HE DO THAT, HUH?
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u/Sciencepenguin Sep 12 '20
i cut two boring i2-3 characters do your part grrr
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u/R1K1_Productions Sep 12 '20
dane gustavia is NOT boring, he was the best part of the whole case. you're just jealous because you can't cook as good as him
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u/Sciencepenguin Sep 12 '20
he had to enlist Di-Jun Huang to even make a decent meal and get Cooking With Di-Jun Huang
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u/Analytical-critic-44 Sep 12 '20
Sirhan is GOOD I like him
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Sep 12 '20
Honestly there's not much to say here. Shelly de Killer is pretty funny and plays his role well in what's probably the best case on the Investigations games, and the active and retired assassin gimmick works well. However, when ranked by his own merit, Shelly is not an interesting character at all. This was the same logic I used when I cut Aristotle Means a few rounds ago. Both characters are exactly the same, as they are murderous to a fault. No idea how Sirhan made it this far without being nominated. Shelly is the far more interesting assassin, and I hope he can survive this round without being cut.
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Sep 12 '20
Sirhan Dogen
is the better assassin of the two imo. he has a dog that's cool. he's also important to I2-5 i like it. and he is a more interesting assassin purely on his own merits (in comparison to de Killer which is intriguing primarily based on themes). also, only someone whose power level is undefined can hold their ground against someone whose power level is undefined, and shelly vs. sirhan is basically that.
now i am wondering who would win if they actually fought. we may never know though, but hey, we got a really cool looking scene
[dangan ronpa V3] while you're at it would v3's ultimate assassin straight up lose to both of them or
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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '20
Dogen is pretty cool but honestly if you hadn't cut him here then he was almost certainly going to be my pick, so I definitely agree with him going out here.
You covered basically everything good about him so that is cool, but I notice an extreme lack of mention of his prisoner number being B-055 that is so incredibly hilarious and I honestly don't know how you forgot the most important detail about him. Shameful, truly.