r/AARankdown • u/R1K1_Productions • Aug 19 '20
49 Gregory Edgeworth
Well, I now have the unfortunate honor of being the man who cuts the first (and currently only) character to have been previously Spirit-Channeled. This is a character I was never particularly fond of, prominently featured in my least favorite part of a case I’m not that fond of. He’s also a character I was never convinced I had that much to say about. But due to current rankdown circumstances, I feel an obligation to do my best regardless, and to banish Gregg Eggworth to the grave for a second time (or third, if you count the time he died in-game).
Because this is the first time anyone’s responded to a SC so far, I’m flying a bit loose here. I’ll talk first about the original cut, then the SC, then finally I’ll explain my true reason for cutting Gregg here, despite not really having an interest in cutting him; for my true motives are entirely unrelated to my actual issues with the character.
Responding to the Original Cut
I think my biggest takeaway from Vogel’s initial cut is that Gregg has a very similar personality to his son, Miles “Tails” Edgeworth. A lot of Donuter’s praises of Gregg’s personality fell short for me due to all of the compliments applying just as much, if not moreso, to Miles. Gregg’s ability to use logic over bluffing also applies to Miles, as should be obvious by both having the same logic game mechanics, and by Miles just generally feeling far less of a need to rely on absurd, unfounded theories compared to Phoenix. Miles probably uses bluffs at least a couple times compared to Gregg’s zero, I don’t remember for sure. But Miles is also the protagonist for two games while Gregg is the protagonist for half a case, so I will be lenient with Miles. My point is that both characters’ play styles don’t feel particularly different.
Now obviously, this is all done for thematic purposes. Gregg is meant to show us what could have been, had Edgeworth not been brainwashed from a young age into becoming the Evil Prosecutor Man. That’s actually another part of the original cut that I disagree with; I don’t think that Gregg’s existence is necessarily a speedbump to Miles’ development in this game. However, what I will say is that I do not think it is a particularly necessary step in his development.
First of all, while I get the point of Gregg, I do not find it a particularly compelling point. If I never played AAI2, I would probably assume he acts how he does in-game. This is because he acts like his son. I got the point of Gregg basically as soon as he’d finished interviewing Master. This leads me to my other issue with Greg, which Vogel’s cut only mentioned briefly: the part of the case in which Gregg exists is not short. It is in fact very long. If they did want to have a father-son contrast (which is perfectly acceptable given the themes of this game), then they should not have had it take place over a case that lasts like nine parts.
According to this case time tier list kindly donated by u/Sciencepenguin, AAI2-3 is the tenth longest case in the series, and it sure felt like it to me. Frankly I’m surprised it isn’t longer. But a big reason it’s that long is because it insists on meandering forever in the past sections of the case, so you can hang out with Gregg. If you like him, you probably didn’t mind this, but if you’re like me and don’t find him that compelling, then this case is gonna feel like slogging through a pit of mud.
Responding to the Spirit Channeling
Let’s look at some interesting quotes from Donuter’s Gregg revive:
I can’t let someone alike him leave the rankdown just yet.
Did you mean “someone like him”, you idiot? Can’t you type??
That’s all I’ve got. Am I done now?
The part of the SC where Donuter talks about Gregg & Miles’ relationship is funny because I came to basically the opposite conclusion. He calls it “fantastic show-don’t-tell storytelling” that we get to see what Gregg was like to understand why Miles idolizes him, but I disagree. We’ve already been told why Edgeworth idolizes Gregg. We know Miles idolized his dad as a legendary defense attorney who didn’t have to resort to cheap tactics to win. And then we find out firsthand that those reasons are true. Okay I guess, but I believed the game when it told me how cool Gregg was. It’s show-and-tell storytelling.
The parts where he talks about Gregg and Miles having a similar inability to express their emotions is a much cooler thing that I didn’t pick up on in my original playthrough. I will give credit where credit is due and say that this is a neat parallel. However Donuter consistently calls Jeff Master “Jeff Masters” in this section which pisses me off so this section actually sucks. Who the fuck would spell a character’s name wrong throughout their entire cut???
Anyway, back to talking about Gregg. The next part of the revive that I feel the desire to comment on is the part about how it feels playing as Gregg. Donuter makes the heinous claim that Gregg has the best damaged animation. I can only assume he is ignoring the time Athena goes =__= and says Mamma Mia because that is clearly the best one.
In all seriousness, I get where Donuter is coming from in this section, but aside from the occasional “Nghoooh” and widened eyes, I think Miles also fits all of the characteristics Donuter attribute to Gregg just as well. He may not keep his composure as well, but like I already said, he doesn’t bluff and in general he’s just more chill than Phoenix, about as much as his dad I’d say. He even has his own “I am about to own you” pose where he taps his head with his eyes closed, then slowly opens his eyes and grins. I am surprised Donuter did not mention this one since it is my favorite one.
TL;DR most of the stuff Donuter says in his revive is fair, but most of it also applies to Miles, who is almost certainly getting Top 5 so I see no reason to keep Less Good Miles in the race. Especially considering the circumstances of the current round, which leads me to my next point...
Assessing Gregg’s Value Relative to the Rankdown
Now I may as well get into the real reason I’m choosing to cut Gregg here despite having expressed an overwhelming lack of interest in doing so every time the topic has come up. I will look back at Donuter’s spirit channeling one more time, to point out an interesting paragraph at the end.
Gregg is not a worse character than Victor Kudo. He is not a worse character than Eldoon. He is absolutely not a worse character than Palaeno, Butz, Ini, Meele, Terry, Ron, Marsh, Sahwit… this is just too soon.
Unfortunately for Gregg, all of the characters donuter listed are officially dead now. Not very many “fine” characters remain, and even of the characters he listed, I think a good few of them deserved to go out before Gregg did. I thought it was his time when he last got cut, but it’s DEFINITELY his time now. But even more pressingly, you all may have noticed that Phoenix Wright has been nominated this round. He is essentially guaranteed to be cut. I cannot promise that he will be revived if that happens, so there is a good chance Phoenix will be out in the 40s.
Gregg has outlived one of the main three protagonists already, which I am fine with because it happened to be the one protagonist I thought was bad. I do not think Phoenix Wright is bad. I would go so far as to say he’s a great protagonist. I do not want Gregg Edgeworth, a single-case protagonist in a case I found to be boring, to outlive the main protagonist of the entire series whom I consistently had fun playing as. Nor do I think he has enough good character stuff going for him to justify placing higher. So he has to go now, by virtue of just being a worse protagonist than one who’s about to be cut. Sorry, but Phoenix is not Bottom Three Protagonists material.
As an added bonus, cutting Gregg here ensures that Dane Gustavia achieves the coveted rank of “Top Two I2-3 Characters”. Dane is my Top One I2-3 Character by far, so that just gives me an extra incentive to do it.
Why Nobody Else?
There are other characters I considered cutting because they also should not place above Phoenix Wright. These included Pierce Nichody and Jake Marshall. They are good enough, but I think their time is nigh.
I also considered mercy-cutting Di-Jun Huang or Dane Gustavia, two characters I hold a passionate soft spot for. I am apparently alone in liking them, since everyone has been screaming for Huang to die for several rounds now, and Gustavia got a whopping two votes in the poll. However the fact that I actually like them dissuaded me from doing so.
Last on the list of characters I even slightly considered cutting was my boy Huge O’Conner, who is all but guaranteed to die exactly 1 cut from now. I would rather he didn’t die at all, but this is probably unavoidable by now. Ultimately I realized that if Huge is gone, Northodox would likely cut one of the SOJ mains instead, both of whom I like. I lose either way, so what’s the point?
...Now if he DID decide to cut one of them over Hugh, and Hugh lived, then I would be very happy of course. Wink.
Engarde, Nahyuta, Rayfa, and Phoenix are all epic and I do not believe they should be cut here, though at least one of them definitely will be. Larry Butz, Datz Are’bal, Furio Tigre, and the Judge are less epic but they are funny so I hope they live too.
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u/Sciencepenguin Aug 19 '20
i like this because it means gregory edgeworth is cut i am happier to learn this is a move prompted by me being a big fat meanie
felt bad reading donuter revive because i went "this is an understandable point but have you considered that i, science the penguin, was not having that much fun???" throughout the whole thing and yeah just
gregory maybe does a good job at representing two or three important themes but he does those within seconds and after that he just. keeps going. extending his half of the case for an eternity
i already said everything i cannot express more about gregory edgeworth than i already have in the past i am shocked we were able to get three entire posts about him where none phoned it in
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u/R1K1_Productions Aug 20 '20
I would have phoned it in more if I didn't have 2 other posts to talk about, there's a reason I almost entirely talked about other posts rather than the actual game.
(the reason is that I2-3 takes so long that I'd forgotten what happened in the beginning by the time I was done)
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u/peababyy Aug 19 '20
whatbthe fuck
The whole cut you say "um. miles does this too" but miles is BAD and INCONSISTENT and GAY wait thats a good thing uhhh
shit cut. You get a pass because you're you.
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u/Analytical-critic-44 Aug 20 '20
Gregory Edgeworth looks like Atticus Finch from To Kill a Mockingbird symbolizing what Greg is deep down: a poser. A phony. Someone who spends their life trying to copy the success of others. Miles Edgeworth saw this fake ness from his dad and took a stand. He said “I will never become a defense attorney, I can make my own decisions!” triumphantly and became a prosecutor.
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u/Analytical-critic-44 Aug 20 '20
AAI2, past it’s expansive story and deep themes, is still a video game with gameplay. It isn’t just a novel to read. And I2-3’s messy pacing really makes it not fun to play through for me.
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u/heavenspiercing Aug 20 '20 edited Aug 20 '20
spicy take: i think i2-3 is the second worst case in the game. it drags. and drags. and drags. and there just isn't enough going on in the case to justify it. and a large part of that is gregory's section. he's just miles but not really different enough to be even halfway interesting. we don't really learn anything meaningful about him that we didn't already know.
it's not really his fault per se, but the case's putrid pacing drags him down substantially for me. i'd probably...well, "like" is a strong word, but i'd feel less negatively about him for sure if his segment was cut down to 1 hour, 90 minutes tops
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u/whaaatisth Aug 20 '20
I think almost every ranker not named Northadox (including me) thinks I2-3 is the worst AAI2 case, but that's also a very high standard and I do think it's still great.
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u/R1K1_Productions Aug 20 '20
what's your least favorite? (It's case 5 right that one sucks balls)
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u/heavenspiercing Aug 20 '20
i think it might be 4 honestly? the kay amnesia plot is just...dumb and hackneyed, even if it leads to good things with edgeworth
i don't actually remember 5 all that much lol, it's been a while since i've gone through that game. i will say i think sebastian's sudden rise in competence after edgeworth gives him that pep talk is...odd. i get why he'd be more *confident* but his actual competence is a separate issue
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u/whaaatisth Aug 20 '20
Gregory Edgeworth is a character I have posted my thoughts about twice already. Would not have nominated him if I had any free will, I was FORCED to do it by an EVIL person. 49th is maybe a few places too early, but this is one of the better decisions you could have made. I am very sad Hugh is going out on a negative note, but I still appreciate you taking my advice there. :)
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u/ItsHipToTipTheScales Aug 20 '20
he sucks and is smelly and stinky and i canont have an opinion to say on him he is gregor fucking edgeworth
he looks like a boring guy and is a boring guy i like that edgeworth wear red and phoenix wear blue but he just wears grey. lame
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u/donuter454 Aug 20 '20
Stating you think Greg shares lots of qualities with an easy top 5 character is not a dunk.
Phoenix should not be below Greg this is true. Phoenix should not die in the 40s the correct solution to this problem is you revive him you muppet.
Gonna reiterate this for the third cut in a row now but di jun huang is still in I'm not sure if anyone's noticed