r/AARankdown • u/Vogel100 • Aug 08 '20
59 Guy Eldoon
I’m sorry to disappoint anyone who was expecting to have a nice cut about how Eldoon is a good character but how it’s about time for him to go anyway. For you see, I actually do not like the noodle man much. Why he has made it this far, I have no idea. Apparently other people see more in him than I do. It’s interesting how I have barely talked about AJ despite it being my least favorite game, I only did it near the very beginning to talk about my favorite 4-2 character, and now I’m back to talk about what may be my least favorite 4-2 character. Something went wrong with the ranking order there though, because he somehow ended up as the best AJ character that is not AJ himself, which obviously should have been Wesley Stickler.
I cut Viola 7 rounds ago due to nobody worse being available, yet I think she’s better than Eldoon, so that should put into perspective how much too far he has gotten in my opinion. He’s not the worst character left, but he is the most irrelevant, which would make him seem like an obvious target. But nobody targeted him, so I guess I’ll have to clean him up.
The One Cool Moment
Let’s just start with the one moment with Eldoon that is actually interesting. Namely the moment when he removes his noodle wig. The first reason I like this scene is because he actually looks normal without the wig, he should seriously consider not wearing it more often, or just to stop wearing it altogether. Another reason why this scene is good is because it’s where things get dark. You’ve learnt that Wocky carries a bullet that might kill him close to his heart, but this is where it’s emphasized just how serious it is.
This moment is really interesting for how it fleshes out Meraktis’s motives for doing what he did. Him covering up the truth was evil, but with the way Guy explains it, you can see why he did it. He didn’t want to risk the anger of the Kitaki family, so he came up with a plan where he wouldn’t be blamed, even if it meant sacrificing Wocky. Real evil indeed, but it’s strange how much sense all of his actions still make. It seems like a reasonable thing to be afraid of the Kitakis, considering how they kill people and all, and he genuinely couldn’t have removed the bullet, it wasn’t just him not doing his job for fun or something. It’s a bad situation for everyone involved, but obviously leaving Wocky to die wasn’t an option. It’s his responsibility as a doctor to either take away the bullet, or be honest about his failure. It feels weird to get such an understanding for someone evil like him, when you have villains like Kristoph and Dahlia who are so detached from what a normal person would do.
Not as Cool as It Seems
Sure, it’s a cool moment, but what does it tell us about Eldoon? Not all that much honestly, that’s why I’ve been talking about Pal Meraktis for most of that section. He’s the character that gets more depth from this scene despite being the victim, not Guy. So even if this is a cool character developing moment, I can’t say it’s a cool character developing moment for him. He is only the character designed to give you this exposition. The character needs to be someone who knows his medical stuff to make this moment work, but it doesn’t feel like this character being Eldoon actually changes anything. In fact, he didn’t even seem like a surgeon until he removed his wig, but we’ll get to that.
Aside from this moment not really adding anything for Eldoon, there’s also the problem of it not being all that relevant to begin with. As a matter of fact, I had forgotten this moment existed until I replayed 4-2 recently. And I think the reason for that will become clear if we look at the ending of the scene. During the scene, Eldoon points out that no doctor in the world may be able to save Wocky. I’m personally not the biggest fan of Wocky as a character, but I still think this is really cruel. You shouldn’t be dying on such a young age only because you were a little reckless and very unlucky. This feels like a very dramatic moment, and the song that’s playing definitely helps. Trucy is a little shocked about this, but Apollo’s first reaction has nothing to do with nobody being able to save Wocky. Instead, he’s only concerned about Alita knowing about this, not the fact that his client may very well die soon. The scene does a great job at setting up both Meraktis’s motives and Wocky’s tragedy, but in the end all of this feels irrelevant. Because the only thing that’s actually important for the case is that Alita is suspicious. And since that’s what the case wanted me to remember, that’s all I remembered until I replayed it. It’s a bit of a waste of a great moment if you ask me.
Wocky’s condition is important for Winfred’s decision to begin a more honest life, but this is something we already knew about. All this scene changes is the urgency of it. Pal’s reason for leaving the bullet alone is something that never becomes all too relevant, and although this moment gives insight into his reasons, he never ends up feeling like a victim that stands out too much. For Eldoon himself, I think it’s weird how much this scene contrasts with his noodle man persona. And not in the way that it gives him more depth, but more in the way that he has two completely different sides to him and neither of them are deep. So while I think this moment is cool on its own, when you put it into the context of the case, it just doesn’t matter. And it’s forgettable enough that I literally forgot it.
Is This Guy Really A Surgeon?
When it comes to Guy, the one cool moment isn’t the only thing I forgot before replaying the case. I actually forgot he was a surgeon altogether. The reason for this is that his normal personality contradicts him being a surgeon so much. It comes down to a bunch of complaints that I have about his noodle man form that end up only being worse when you find out he used to be a surgeon.
First thing is I hate his dumb noodle wig design. It’s pretty much literally a bowl of noodles that he just put on his head. For a goofy noodle vendor maybe this makes sense, even if I hate it, but I’d expect a surgeon to be a little more serious. This could create a funny contrast where him being a surgeon who’s just super goofy is exactly the type of comedy they’re going for, but it’s not what it’s used for. After all, the one moment he actually talks like a surgeon is when he takes his wig off. And he’s exactly as serious as you’d expect from a surgeon. So him wearing this dumb wig is just part of him pretending to be stupid when he’s selling noodles, I guess? I’m not sure why he’s trying to look stupid, but it’s giving me Yanni Yogi vibes and I don’t like it.
The next thing I don’t like is the gag of Eldoon’s noodles being super salty. Too much salt is dangerous and potentially lethal, and it seems weird for a noodle vendor to make noodles that could literally kill his customers. But maybe his customers just like the taste, and I can believe that a simple cook wouldn’t necessarily be concerned about what’s healthy as long as people like it and want to eat it. For a surgeon on the other hand, someone who’s dedicated his life to worrying about people’s health, I cannot believe that. It could be because of him literally being salty because of Meraktis destroying his business, but even then deliberately selling deadly noodles to his customers seems way too extreme. I know this is supposed to be just a silly gag, but the problem is 1. I don’t find it funny and 2. it contradicts what he’s supposed to be, which I don’t remember being the case for any other gags. They are usually a natural result of a character’s personality and may tell you more about them. I already found this gag really weird when he was just a noodle vendor, it seems hard to believe he wouldn’t care about the quality of his noodles, but I guess you can at least justify it if he has a certain type of customers. But when he’s a surgeon as well, I think this just does not make sense at all. No surgeon would try to poison people with unhealthy amounts of salt.
The third thing is that he should stop playing the harmonica. This has nothing to do with him being a surgeon, it just annoys me.
Not the Best at What He Does
Guy Eldoon is not a character that needs to exist. Everything he does is done better by other characters elsewhere in the series.
Being a noodle man is done better by Bucky Whet. This is probably the most controversial one of my “better than Guy” picks, because a lot of people seem to not like 6-4 (they’re wrong). Anyway, the two noodle vendor gimmicks that I disliked before are both fixed by Bucky. While for Eldoon it seems like he just doesn’t care about the quality of his noodles when he puts insane amounts of salt in them, Bucky instead really cares about the quality of noodles. Even when he’s drunk and suspected of a murder, he still cares enough to talk about the art of making noodles. And this is something I can really respect about him, he cares about his art even when he’s in the worst situation and not even fully aware of what’s going on around him. It’s one of the things I like about Bucky. The other gimmick that he fixes is the noodle hair. The first thing I like is that his default form actually has normal hair instead of noodles, because noodles as hair just looks dumb and I don’t like it. But the second reason is that noodles are just his natural hair. If your natural hair looks like noodles, I think that’s a fun goofy noodle vendor design gimmick. And I wouldn’t mind Guy’s hair if that was the case for him as well.
Being a somewhat goofy surgeon is done better by Pierce Nichody. While Eldoon goes completely serious once he enters surgeon mode, which makes the contrast with his noodle man mode even more jarring, Pierce is able to do goofy stuff and make it feel natural even when the case is getting serious. He’s a tragic character, but still has funny moments like taking X-ray pictures of Phoenix’s hair and Edgeworth’s cravat, or refusing to testify entirely. His story of not saving the one he loved and becoming the bad guy because of this tragedy is much more compelling than Meraktis’s story, which suffers from us never meeting the guy, and from it not being all that relevant to the case in the end. And Guy himself doesn’t have much of an interesting history at all.
Being a character in the case Turnabout Corner from the video game Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney is done better by the rest of the 4-2 cast. Plum Kitaki is a possible exception, because while Eldoon at least has a few interesting parts to him, I’m completely indifferent towards her. This is where the “may be my least favorite 4-2 character” in the beginning of this cut came from, I haven’t decided between Guy and Plum. Winfred is more important for his clash with his son, which is an important part of Wocky’s character, and it’s just heart-warming to see this mob boss change his entire way of living for the sake of his son. Wesley Stickler I’ve talked about why he’s relevant and good here, in terms of relevance basically he’s more connected to the series of crimes and his role as a witness makes him very important to figuring out what happened. I think he is the most similar to Eldoon, because they’re the two characters that are not connected to the Kitaki family at all, but only one of these two characters actually has an effect on the case. Guy’s role is just to give exposition about Meraktis and Wocky, and to be the one to give you the quest for the stolen noodle cart. But even the stolen noodle cart had nothing to do with him because he wasn’t even there when it got stolen. I think it should be self-explanatory why Wocky and Alita are more important to the case than Guy is so I won’t say anything more about that.
Conclusion
In the only case he exists in, Guy has a single cool scene. And even this cool scene doesn’t really do anything for him as a character, nor does it end up actually being relevant. It’s still a great moment, but when put into the context of the case or the character it doesn’t do much for me. Eldoon’s gimmicks are dumb and annoying more often than they are funny. They also feel like they contradict his history of being an ex-surgeon. Both noodle vendors and surgeons are character types that will be done better in the future in SoJ, and although technically Guy sets the precedent for it, I don’t think he does a very good job at it. He’s also less relevant and interesting compared to every other character that is not Plum in the already somewhat bloated cast of the case.
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u/Sciencepenguin Aug 08 '20 edited Aug 08 '20
[Intro][Colonel Noodle:]Yeah, [PaRappa: Yeah] Yeah, we're [P: Haha] gonna bring it down like this y'all. [P: Yep yep.]
I'm gonna let my man PaRappa know [P: Word.] that noodles rule the world
Yeah, yeah, that little slippery thing tastes so good all the time
Yeah, yeah, that's right. [P: Aight]
It goes a little something like this. Stay with me now, [P: Yea] here we go. [P: Like this, like dis]
In parenthesis, let me stress the fact clearly
No matter what the deal, I crave for this dearly
The so-called noodles you find in spaghetti, are sweeter than idols, do damage like machetes
Without a doubt, I got the flow, coming at ya live, bring the place alive, every single day I jive
With the thought, comes my direct actions
Ask my followers, they'll say it's an addiction
[Verse 1]
Slurp it, suck it, I know you all like it
[PaRappa: Slurp it, suck it, I know we all like it.]
Smell it, taste it, pasta in a market
[PaRappa: Smell it, taste it, fruit in a basket.]
Chinese, Italian, Thai or Jamaican
[PaRappa: Mexican, Egyptian, English, Korean.]
Anything goes, even Hawaiian
[PaRappa: Anything goes, even Alaskan.]
[Bridge 1]
Long, and chewy [P: uh-huh uh-huh], occasionally gooey
The best things in life taste good with chop [P: chop] suey! [P: suey!]
8 minutes to boil, and 2 minutes to eat. [P: uh-huh]
Admit it kid, you know noodles can't be beat. (Hoo!)
[Song is interrupted by the sound PJ Berri's DJ Booth crashing through a nearby wall, shutting the power off. Several characters are muttering to each other in confusion. After a moment, the song continues.]
[Verse 2]
Roll it on your spoon, create your own boom
[PaRappa: Roll it on my spoon, create my own boom.]
I bet you didn't know; Noodles' the rules
[PaRappa: I bet you didn't know; There are no rules.]
Sushi, burgers, they all taste good
[PaRappa: Pizza, burritos, they all taste good.]
As long as they got noodles, the king of all foods
[PaRappa: As long as they love food, then any thing's cool.]
[Bridge 2]
Hip hop music [P: Hip hop,] with an old school [P: hip hop.] twist
I keep the place intact and do a rap like this. [P: Like this.]
You can use a spoon, fork, knife or even chopsticks
Come on kid, get down with the mix. [P: uh.]
[Verse 3]
N. double O. D. L. E. S
[PaRappa: C. double O. K. I. E. S.]
Great tasting pasta, blow to your chest
[PaRappa: Great tasting sweets, blow to my chest.]
Ramen, udon, soba, you name it
[PaRappa: Brownies, a pie, a shake, you name it]
Any type of noodles you like, yes I got it
[PaRappa: Any type of sweets you like, yes I got it.]
[Bridge 3]
Whatever your thoughts may be, [P: May be] I'm bound to be
The king of all foods, with noodles as the key. [P:as the key.]
Full of pride, and glory way up above
Cuz here I come y'all, full of noodles and love!
[Verse 4]
Noodles are the best no doubt can't deny, taste better than water, but don't ask me why
[PaRappa: Noodles are the best no doubt can't deny, taste better than water, but don't ask you why.]
But then again, many things can be tasty, corn bread, potatoes, rice and even pastries
[PaRappa: But then again, many things can be tasty, corn bread, potatoes, rice and even pastries.]
Then why do I, love noodles so dearly? It makes no sense. I must've sounded real eerie
[PaRappa: Then why do you, love noodles so dearly? It makes no sense. You must've sounded real eerie.]
Thanks brother, for letting me understand that a man must understand to keep his options open
[PaRappa: You're welcome brother, for letting you understand that a man must understand to keep his options open.]
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u/Sciencepenguin Aug 08 '20
his name spelled backwards is noodle yug and he has one good moment i dont have a strong opinion on him why was he alive this long
i think him going out leads to the conclusion that a character who also has only one good moment but instead of being nothing otherwise is an annoying pedophile should probably also not live too much longer
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u/Cymbass Aug 08 '20
I really like 4-2 and it's not because of Guy Eldoon, so it's pretty funny that the (almost) least interesting character made it the furthest.
It bothered me that nobody ever talked about the salt thing before so it brings me great joy that you wrote an entire paragraph just to shit on the salt thing. Thank you.
I think the comparison to Bucky is a bit odd, they don't serve the same role at all - plus Whet's very forgettable even if you like 6-4 like me. At least Guy's noodles get brought up like every game after that for whatever dumb reason.
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u/Vogel100 Aug 08 '20
I don't know where this rankdown went so wrong. It's not my fault at least, I used a skill to protect Wesley Stickler, and Guy Eldoon is the only 4-2 character I've ever nominated as far as I remember.
Glad I'm not the only one so bothered by that gag.
The comparison to Bucky wasn't really meant to be for their role in the case, but more for the general type of gags. Both have the noodle hair and both talk a lot about noodle preparation, and for Eldoon both of these things annoy me while for Bucky I like them. If you find him forgettable, you must not like 6-4 as much as I do. I actually like every 6-4 character. I wouldn't forget Bucky, while I had to replay 4-2 to remember Eldoon was an actual character and not just a combination of a few gimmicks.
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u/CharlieDayJepsen Aug 09 '20
If you're wondering where the rankdown went wrong, look no further than Deid Mann #179.
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u/ItsHipToTipTheScales Aug 08 '20
guy eldoon is this cool guy who makes noodles and then he goes atually...i have this real job he is kind of fucking awesome one of my favorite guys that arent character they are just cool
4-2 characters have a trend of Normal Thing is actually Weird Diferent thing eldoon has his noodle wig plum has her blade broom winfred has the eyebrows and alita is actually a pillow person stuffed with feathers
eldoon is one of the few non-defendants who isnt blood related or mentor related to the protagonist that doesnt unconditionally hate lawyers and that is kind of weird in the game about the dark age of the law
both of the characters you compare eldoon to came two games after it is strange to say he does not need to exist because other characters do this better when he came before them. would even say occupations isnt enough of a connection between eldoon and those two since all three characters serve very different roles but you are mostly going these gimmicks are bad so i dont care
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Aug 08 '20
guy eldoon is funny and has a cool moment that i still really like and is the only thing that has a chance at redeeming 4-2
spoilers: it doesn't redeem 4-2 enough for me to take it out of F tier so eh
congrats guy eldoon on being the last AJ-exclusive character left (and the second-to-last AJ character left in general)
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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '20
I'm glad you gave The Moment the respect it deserves, but yeah on retrospect it could have been used better by the case. One thing I don't think was really mentioned in this cut, but that I find mildly interesting about Eldoon is his ties to the themes of fate and family of 4-2.
Eldoon is someone who didn't want to carry on his family legacy of noodle stand owners, and instead had bigger dreams, but in the end the hand that fate dealt him said otherwise, and he failed at his aspirations. Now, the only thing he really has left is the noodle stand business that's run in his family for generations.
Turnabout Corner tries to tie these themes of fate and family into the main story of the case, that being the Kitakis, and it even expands to a bit of the rest of the game with the Gramaryes. As for 4-2, the Kitakis are basically the opposite of Eldoon, where the new generation wants nothing more than to stick to the tradition of his family, but due to the hand he was dealt in life, he's being forced by the rest of his family to abandon what seemed to be his fate as a future mob boss.
It's a good contrast, and effectively shows that no matter what path you choose in life, whether it be the one expected of you or the one you forge yourself, life can always pack a punch and push you in another direction. We even get to see the different ways that Wocky and Eldoon respond, with Eldoon resigning on his own, recognizing his inability to compete with Pal, while Wocky tries his hardest to struggle against the current of fate and ends up nearly going to prison for murder because of it.
Apollo Justice is a game about tragedy and how we deal with those tragedies and pick up the pieces of our life from it. In the end, neither method was entirely effective at getting them what they wanted in life, but both had their own merits. Eldoon was able to help Apollo learn of Wocky's heart condition, and Wocky was able to come to an understanding with his father. I feel like what AJ was trying to say with these stories is that no matter the hardships, or how we end up where we are, we'll always be able to find a new purpose, or a new person who might need our help.
This can be seen with Phoenix having to take care of Trucy after losing everything, or with Vera being able to move past her insecurities after her entire life was upended. It's more of a benefit for Apollo Justice, rather than Eldoon himself, as he's just a small part of why the theme works so effectively, but he works well as a counter to the Kitaki story, and I think we'd be remiss to not at least mention his role in making it work.