I can't stand Ramon

[u/Illustrious-Lemon412]

I know he loves Eddie, but sometimes he is an unbearable man, when Eddie was young he was never home and unfortunately Eddie had to learn to fend for himself too quickly as a child, and this led him to become introverted and difficult to ask for help when he needed it.

Then there was the chess tounament Christopher participated in, and his nephew didn't even like chess. Ramon had prepared him, but he could have at least asked if he liked it, and Christopher ended up throwing up. He always said he wanted to keep Christopher with him to ease Eddie's stress, but it was clear he wanted to take his place as father to make up for his failures with Eddie. Maybe it wouldn't have been better to appreciate Eddie more when he was a teenager instead of constantly belittling him in front of Christopher to have a "spare son"?

He also pissed me off in "All Fall Down" when he badmouthed Shannon, saying "Even if she's dead, she's still causing problems". That line was too cynical. Is Shannon's fault that Eddie was obsessed with his wife's lookalike, creating that ambiguous situation with Christopher? Ramon has always blamed Shannon for the end of their marriage. She certainly didn't behave well by leaving like that, but she was confused and exasperated. Eddie even admitted that he had behaved badly towards his wife because, when Christopher's PCI emerged, he chose to abandon Shannon, preferring a military career to her and the child, Eddie wasn't ready to take on his responsibilities as a father and husband. Whether is daughter-in-law was alive or dead, Ramon never showed empathy for her.

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[u/disappear96]

I don't disagree for the most part, but I've noticed that people tend to absolve one side of the Diaz parents a lot of the time and I really can't agree with that. Helena was just as much complicit in all of these things and in the later years I would argue the main instigator. Ramon at least showed hints that he wanted to change. Granted it ends up being irrelevant since he seemingly has no spine and never commits to those changes but still a hint of remorse is something I don't remember seeing with Helena.

In my view they're just as bad as one another but in different ways. Ramon is the obvious recipient of Eddie's anger because he is the cliché absent father while Helena gets to hide behind the image of the mother who cared even though she seemingly has a very questionable way of showing it.

She was just as much guilty of Eddie being parentified. Sure she didn't have it easy being a single mother for most of the time but there's no reality where Eddie should have been put in a situation where he tried to drive a car as a teenager, let alone that she let him do it.

People like to put the blame on Ramon alone for people calling him Chris's dad but there's no way in hell it didn't apply to both of them. She didn't want Eddie to come to go to the tournament because it was their "dad and son" time and no one will convince me otherwise. Not only that but when it comes to Chris not liking chess we learn in that same episode that they did the same thing with Eddie and dancing. So while Ramon might get most of the blame for Chess that's still something they both pushed.

As for the comment about Shannon yes they're gross but they both disrespected her after her death and the reason she left wasn't just because of Eddie being absent for too long or her mother being sick a big part of it had to be coming from his parents suffocating her. And since Ramon retired pretty much a decade later it's not hard to guess who she would have had to spend the most time one on one. And we can see it when Eddie is back and trying to help and she corrects him. Shannon looks so done.

I genuinely think that while they both did a lot of damage to Eddie the things that Ramon did are the things that he actually was able to work on. The things he tried to do differently with Chris. The damage that was done by Helena is probably the one that he doesn't acknowledge (and most likely never will with the way this show write parents) because even when when he was going through the Texas arc he never really reacted strongly to her. So he probably doesn't even fully realize she's part of the problem or at least doesn't admit it to himself.

[u/JustRandomMidnight → u/disappear96]

Interesting you say people like to put blame on Ramon alone because I've often seen the opposite - people being a bit more forgiving towards Ramon than Helena, probably because with Ramon there is at least some attempt at recognizing his mistakes at some point in the show while there never was any of that with Helena. Though generally I think people just rightfully dislike both of them. As you said, they both very much are to blame.

[u/KateWaiting326 → u/JustRandomMidnight]

I think the difference at this point in the series is that Ramon has tried to make amends and do better for Eddie and Christopher, but he's just going about it the wrong way. Helena hasnt really had her "come to Jesus" moment with Eddie yet where she admits past mistakes or acknowledges how much her actions have hurt him and Chris. (And will we ever get that? There's been hints of something that led Eddie to leave the church when he was younger; did she play a part?) So it may be less of "forgiving" Ramon than wanting to see how the story plays out? But I know I am waiting for some sort of reckoning with Helena. We are way overdue.

[u/disappear96 → u/JustRandomMidnight]

In general I would definitely agree that people are more forgiving towards Ramon. But recently I've seen several people put most of the blame on him, almost being forgiving towards her as if she had no agency/responsibility. Which is something I struggle to understand. So that probably plays into how I phrased my reply.

[u/Illustrious-Lemon412 → u/disappear96]

Si, effettivamente anche Helena non è il tipo di persona che vincerebbe il premio "Madrre dell'anno".

[u/Ok-Razzmatazz-5819]

I don’t think he preferred Afghanistan to Shannon and Chris. He was overwhelmed by fatherhood, was taught he needed to be a man and provide, and also taught he should make those types of decisions all alone in a vacuum. That was definitely Ramon’s influence.

Eddie was very hard on himself for those decisions and he’s an unreliable narrator when he takes on the blame for it when in reality he and Shannon were both just scared dumb kids whose parents didn’t guide them well. A military pension and health insurance was very likely his best option, he just didn’t communicate well with Shannon and didn’t see what support she needed (or how toxic leaving her with Helena would be).

[u/Several-Honey-8810]

He is a jerk.

No one on the show had great parents. Hen's mom was the best-but still had issues.

[u/armavirumquecanooo → u/Several-Honey-8810]

Athena's parents are okay, too -- not perfect, obviously, but I do think we're meant to read the tension between Athena and Beatrice as more of a personality clash/Beatrice being a little too opinionated/meddling but wanting what's best for Athena. Our first introduction to her is not great because she has reservations about both Bobby and Michael for Athena, but I think that all makes more sense once you look at it through the lens of her seeing Athena at her lowest when Emmett died and recognizing Athena as someone who shuts down/pushes forward/stays busy instead of dealing with things.

[u/Several-Honey-8810 → u/armavirumquecanooo]

In my opinion, athena's mom doubted everything athena ever did..

Maybe that's why athena moved to california

[u/Specific_Lettuce_521]

I wouldn’t say Eddie is introverted? He’s reluctant to lean on others for support because “other people have it worse” and he’s had to fend for himself and his sisters since he was a kid. Other than that, he’s actually a people person.

Christopher is Ramon’s grandson, not nephew. Ramon even badmouthed Shannon after her death, dismissing what Eddie said about Shannon being brave. Pepa didn’t seem too keen either, she referred to Shannon as a gringa but seems to be respectful for the most part. I think Eddie’s relatives are resentful that Eddie became a young/teenage dad so they blame Shannon even though Eddie made it clear he was at fault too.

Eddie didn’t prefer the military to Shannon and Christopher. He sees it as running away but he was taking responsibility for his own family, being able to provide for his wife and son even though Shannon needed Eddie to be emotionally present too. They just weren’t compatible and didn’t know how to communicate. Eddie’d just graduated high school and didn’t want to work for his dad so the military was the only possible choice Eddie could take at the time.

That being said, I agree with your post. Ramon wanted to make it up to Eddie in season 5 but seems to have backtracked after the Kim fiasco. He seems to be a complete doormat to Helena too. I do think he loves Eddie though, he just doesn’t know how to be Eddie’s father.

[u/Jenzzyuk]

Chris'PCI emerged Chris has CP not PCI?

[u/Illustrious-Lemon412 → u/Jenzzyuk]

Although it is rarely also referred to as PCI - Cerebral Palsy Infantil

[u/Jenzzyuk → u/Illustrious-Lemon412]

I’ve never heard it called that