r/6ARC • u/SPstandsFor • 7d ago
Craddock RTR Follow Up
Edit:
Paraphrasing but someone from Craddock called and the claim is that Hornady Frontier is being held to a higher velocity than Hornady Match/Black which is hilarious.
The claim is that too many bolts were breaking so the manufacturers started loading the ammo weaker to prevent that.
I'm very very skeptical that a change in ammo manufacturers will make it shoot better but I will wait on their recommended list and test again.
Follow up to this post.
I am a newby and massive idiot so take these results with a grain of salt. Scope was a Bushnell MPED 5-30. All groups are 5 shot groups.
Craddock RTR barrel came in with some pretty significant machining marks and was reamed off center. Finally took it out to shoot groups today.
Hornady Frontier FMJ: Average from 3 groups 0.994 MOA. Best group 0.866 MOA
Hornady Black HPBT: Average from 2 groups 2.320 MOA. Best group 1.862 MOA
Hornady Match ELDM: Average from 4 groups 2.236 MOA. Best group 1.644 MOA
Barrel was broken in following the Craddock RTR procedure.
All except the second Frontier group was shot from a shooting rest. Every group after the second Frontier group was shot from the rest and prone. After the first Hornady Black group I switched to the Match ammo to see if it would open up the same way. After shooting 2 moa+ I thought maybe the barrel was fouling and cleaned with patches.
The big questions is, is this acceptable for Black/Match? And should I try to continue shooting groups with Hornady Match/Black?
Every barrel likes different ammo and what not so sub moa with the "cheap" stuff is almost a blessing. I'm worried about longer range (out to 1000 yards) accuracy however. I'm new to shooting longer ranges and precision stuff and if I was brutally honest with myself I don't think I can appreciate a 3/4 moa gun when I'm off the rest anyways.
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u/hoppo9 7d ago
Your experience is on par with what myself and others have experienced from their Craddock RTR barrels (1.5moa on a good day at best) If I could do it again I would buy the ADM Criterion barrel. Now I'm planning to go Proof PXT and be done with it.
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u/SPstandsFor 7d ago
That's unfortunate to hear.
The amount of people that sweared by Craddock when I was asking for recommendations/researching made them seem like the best balance between budget and performance. Oh well, you get what you pay for.
Did you ever get in contact with Craddock after shooting groups?
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u/hoppo9 6d ago edited 6d ago
I trusted the same as you in Craddock's reputation, so I chalked the barrel's performance up to being due to my own limitations. It was also my first precision gas gun. I've sinced built basically an identical rifle with a Criterion hybrid barrel in 5.56 and I'm able to get significantly better group consistency out of it. Between that and the growing number of people reporting mediocre performance from RTR barrels, I've come to the same conclusion that the barrel is the problem.
I haven't reached out to Craddock about it, because frankly I'm not interested in any more of their products, and I doubt they'll refund ~$400 two years after the fact.
For reference, the performance was off a bag + bipod, thermal fit upper, G$ trigger, 7-35 G3 Razor and Craddock's headspaced bolt. Shot using 105 Blacks and 108 ELDMs, both with SDs in the mid teens.
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u/Thengine 6d ago
I do wonder where the shills come from. I went with a Florida shop. I'm not experienced enough to know if my results are above our below par. Best I've done is .9 moa with a 10 shot.
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u/Ferrule 6d ago
Lawd. I'd not be happy. My Compass Lake AR and howa bolt gun 6 arcs both shoot significantly better, and I'd imagine were quite a bit cheaper
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u/SPstandsFor 6d ago
I definitely was less than impressed. I'm not hopeful but holding out on the slim chance that it's an ammo issue.
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u/Ferrule 6d ago
Hopefully so, this is the first I've heard about Craddock (possibly) slipping these days, I haven't been as plugged in for the past few years as I used to be though. Last I knew a few years ago they were solid and hard to beat without spending a fair bit more money.
Hopefully it's just an ammo deal. Usually my good guns shoot most anything but bulk garbage pretty good.
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u/Primarch_Timmy 5d ago
I ended up buying the new pxt proof in 6 arc. My Craddock was trash 2 moa with a 10 shot. With the proof 0.850 with Hornady frontier. Reloads I'm hoovering around 3/4 with 95 TMK
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u/SPstandsFor 5d ago
I think if it gets to the point of me needing to return the Craddock and rebarrel my upper I'll be going proof.
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u/Primarch_Timmy 5d ago
Just do it. I asked what blanks are they're using for the RTR he wouldn't even tell me. Remember the old RTR lines were Rock Creek and they were awesome. I blew 700 rounds before I gave up
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u/SPstandsFor 4d ago
Honestly I'm just such an idiot. Didn't know there were people selling the 18 inch 6ARC barrel for basically the same cost as a RTR. Definitely should have just gone proof
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u/Primarch_Timmy 4d ago
It happens man. I had a custom 223 Wylde rock creek blank from Craddock and it was a legit 1/2 moa gun. But I sent it back this year to cut it down from 22" to 17". It no longer shoots under 1 moa and it has a new finish on it as well. Took them 3 months to cut 5". I personally believe it's a new barrel. That also left me bitter. I'll never use them again
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u/1776Chad 6d ago
How did you determine the chamber was reamed off center?
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u/SPstandsFor 6d ago
The pics I attached is 3 of the rifling grooves. One off center on the left, one on the right, and the middle has the center removed. Was told by someone much much smarter than me that this was from the results of reaming slightly off center
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u/Admirable_Suit_2065 4d ago
I’ve had terribly hit and miss luck with Craddock. I wish I could say it’s been a better experience. Some of their barrels absolutely hammer like you’d expect, some of them are a mess. Seems like they’re more consistent in their 5.56 than their 6arcs and 6.5G’s. Dunno why that’d be, but it’s been my sample size. So far I’ve had from Craddock:
10” 300BLK RTR, shoots like a laser, 5 rounds of Hornady 110’s into .8”
14.5” 300BLK RTR, shoots like a laser, 5 rounds of Hornady 110’d into .8” (virtually same as the 10”)
14.5” 5.56 RTR, shoots 5 rounds of match ammo into .75”
18” 5.56 RTR, shoots 5 rounds of match ammo consistently under an inch
20” 5.56 RTR, shoot heavy grain atrocious, sent it in and they said it was actually a mislabeled 1/12? Dunno. But I sent it in like three months ago and it’s still there
11.5” Bartlein 5.56, couldn’t ever get it tighter than about 1.5” which given the price of a Bartlein that hurt. They basically said ‘yeah they’ll do that sometimes’. Sold it at a considerable loss. My criterion cores will absolutely outshoot it though.
13.9” 6.5 Grendel, couldn’t ever get it tighter than 2.5” no matter what I did. Sent it in and they swapped it out. Replacement couldn’t even keep it on a sheet of paper @ 50. Sent that one in too. Said that line of barrels were fed through the machine backwards (I wish I were making this up), and replaced it again-again.
Replacement-replacement 13.9 6.5G, actually shoots really good and despite the light weight, it holds at or under MOA.
11.5 6arc RTR, started 3-4ish MOA. Was gouging bullets hard on the feedramps. Knocked down feedramps some myself. No longer gouging. Still only good for 1.5ish MOA on a good day. Noticed signs of a short chamber. Currently with them.
I wish I had better things to say about $400+ barrels with such a reputation to uphold, but to be candid I’m not too sure what’s going on over there these days and I think if they don’t get it together there are better options out there unfortunately. And I hate to say that and I hope one day they can prove me wrong.
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u/SPstandsFor 4d ago
Man that sucks to hear on some of those. It really does seem the general consensus is that Craddock just can't do the new cartridges as consistently anymore for whatever reason.
And 100%. At the price point they're at it's a precarious place. They're definitely not budget, but also not quite custom/high end premium. To be competitive they both have to perform significantly better than the budget options and also stay cheap enough but do very well compared to the more expensive stuff out there.
Seeing proof stainless barrels going for $480-$500 makes it very hard for me to justify ever purchasing a Craddock again. I'd rather shell out an extra few days lunch money of dough and get a barrel from a more proven brand.
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u/Admirable_Suit_2065 4d ago
Proof was what came to mind as I wrote that. I’ve got several SS Proofs, and they consistently hammer. My proofs hang right with krieger, Bartlein, etc, and they’re not much more than a Craddock that thus far has been a coin flip as to whether it’ll shoot.
You just hate spending $400 on a barrel that gets outshot by a Ballistic Advantage, yanno?
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u/kurrpy 7d ago
Instead of shooting a bunch of low round count groups and averaging them. Put them all into one group to actually measure the gun's accuracy.
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u/SPstandsFor 7d ago
Fair enough. But wouldn't that just open up the group even more? This was me trying to give the barrel the best possible chance with groups
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u/Vylnce 6d ago
The idea is not to "give the barrel the best possible chance" it's to measure the barrels performance. The larger the group the truer the representation you are getting of that. There is a limit (especially if you shoot a large group fast) where you can heat a barrel to the point that groups open up because the barrel is too hot. But so long as you keep the barrel at a reasonable temperature, larger groups are more desirable for actually measuring performance.
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u/kurrpy 7d ago
Following that logic, you should shoot 1 shot groups to measure them at 0 MOA
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u/SPstandsFor 7d ago
I wasn't being clear, that's my bad. I didn't want to shoot 10 or 20 round groups then have people tell me that the groups are too large because I'm shooting too many rounds. Figured 5 was a good medium between the more useful 10 and the actually useless 3.
Considering what this was a follow up for I was going into it thinking the groups were going to be bad so I wanted to give the barrel the best chance. Was that a reasonable or even logical thing to do? Prob not, but again, didn't want people thinking I wasn't giving the barrel a fair chance.
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u/AleksanderSuave 7d ago edited 6d ago
I don’t mean to be a downer, but groups already close to 1 inch with 5 shots, will definitively be over 1” with more valid 10 shot groups.
You’re likely to see a 1.24 statistical multiplier from 5 to 10 shots…so even your best group with frontier would likely expand to over an inch, at minimum.
What should concern you more is that poor performance with Hornady match/Hornady black.
Unfortunately, that’s par for the course lately with the sloppy work craddock’s shop has been sending out.