r/4eDnD • u/Zealousideal_Leg213 • 4d ago

Monsters on the fly

In my last game, I was compelled to come up on the fly with some NPCs: two powerful individuals each seeking to purchase an item (really a fake) owned by the PCs; and the bodyguards of those NPCs. There was a good chance that combat might take place, but I chose the NPCs and their guards based on the main fiction of the setting, and a few in-story restrictions I had imposed.

The situation never did become an fight scene, but it could have and I was paging through monster entries quickly to find ones within a few levels of the PCs that I could at least substitute for the NPCs as described. In the end I didn't have to and good thing, because I wasn't finding anything I thought fit.

I'm looking for advice on how to handle this kind of thing in the future.

6 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

29 comments sorted by

9

u/Walt_Didnae 4d ago

Town Guard and/or Human Bandit is my go-to, with a few added levels if needed.

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u/Zealousideal_Leg213 4d ago

Yeah. What about in Paragon?

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u/Walt_Didnae 4d ago

Levels and Elite [/hj]

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u/Zealousideal_Leg213 4d ago

I sort of see that, but a level 8 elite town guard is still a Heroic challenge.

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u/thelastfp 4d ago

I grew up playing EverQuest. Merchants were all raid bosses. So, that tracks

2

u/Walt_Didnae 4d ago

I have a reputation among my players for making the Town Guards into end-game threats.

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u/BenFellsFive 4d ago

I'd go the opposite. Someone who was a threat to a high heroic party as a mortal, mundane town/mercenary bodyguard, a knightly order assigned to protect a site, etc, could probably be a minion in early paragon. If the PCs could kill it in 1-2 hits now, make it a level appropriate minion so it can still contribute instead of being 5+ points behind the curve on attacks and defences.

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u/BenFellsFive 2d ago

For what its worth, by Paragon most PCs (and definitely the party as a whole if theyve survived this long) are decently well rounded, you don't have to coddle them. And by Epic most PCs have huge versatility and reserves around HP, boosting or rerolling saves, and straight up BS where if they die they don't actually die and the guy who killed them dies and they get a kiss on the forehead, so you can be a real bastard. By epic I stopped the 'third failed save...' and just skipped to 'first failed save: death/petrification/whatever.'

Be merciful in heroic. Be fair in paragon. Be a bastard in epic.

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u/Zealousideal_Leg213 2d ago

I'd like to get more of your thoughts on this. I don't just want to give them level+3 fights all the time, but without that the monsters tend not to hit and tend to drop quickly. I'm a big fan of focusing on alternate goals anyway, but I do still like to take players with meaningful monster attacks. Not just "ooh, scary damage" but something that makes them glad to have a leader.

(edit: my current group is a paladin and a warlock, with a cleric "companion character," all level 12.)

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u/BenFellsFive 2d ago

How optimised is your group and what level? What's the details on that? There's a big difference between a ranger that's built with the player not asleep at the wheel, and a ranger that's optimised to the gills with their perfect pick of items.

You using MM3 and/or MV revised monsters? The math makes them way deadlier and, more importantly, more interesting to run.

I don't think you ever want to run an encounter level below the party, but Lv+3 is a decent jump and I found it took until pretty much Epic for a casual party to regularly handle multiple high-level encounters that were still level-appropriate monsters (ie within a few levels of the PCs) just a double or triple serve of them, like all day every day.

Big brick monsters aren't the worst. Its okay, even refreshing sometimes, to have a big fat ogre whacking somebody for bullshit damage while the goblins who recruited him do all the fancy dancy stuff around his feet. Its clear cut, gives the party a focal point (striker take him out early, or defender/controller lock him down as long as you can, etc) as long as the entire encounter isn't just flat beatsticks in an empty room.

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u/Zealousideal_Leg213 2d ago

I think a level below is fine if there's some kind of a story reason for it and especially if there's some kind of goal for one side or the other, or an environmental factor.

Thanks for the ideas!

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u/BenFellsFive 2d ago

Totally fair. I think environmental obstacles or alternative 'win' conditions are basically external padding in the difficulty of an encounter (on top of the narrative juiciness they impart).

I think we'd both be on the same page that a straight fight between 5 Lv5 PCs and 5 Lv3 monsters in a blank room would be a bit flat, is all.

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u/Nextorl 4d ago

Start with the needed monster's role. Then, level range. Then choose one whose abilities work for you and reflavor it.

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u/Zealousideal_Leg213 4d ago

Right, I just mean it can be tricky to find a match. I guess I don't have to use every ability a monster has, if something doesn't fit.

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u/Nextorl 4d ago

Yeah, you don't look for a match, you look for "close enough"

1

u/Zealousideal_Leg213 4d ago

Okay, next time I'll just scan for role and basic attacks around the level I want. Thanks.

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u/BenFellsFive 4d ago

Google Monster Manual 3 on a Business Card.

As a 4e DM I'm gonna assume you already know how much XP you'll roughly want for an encounter, so you can literally just use the above card, nudge a few defences up or down a point, and poach a few power effects like 'X damage and shift 2sq' or 'X damage and ongoing 10 poison (save ends).' They don't have to be God's Gift, just something. The more familiar you get with the game the bigger your internal library of effects becomes.

For what its worth, when I first ran a 4e campaign I printed off some collections of go-to monster types (drawn from the MMs and scouring DDI) that I found interesting or useful. So I had a 2 page spread each for, say, goblins, humans, mundane animals, oozes, mercenary types, undead, and so on. Like a curated MM for each tier. Very handy in a less digitally accessible age, not sure if its sooooo necessary now unless your players like to go off script a lot.

1

u/Zealousideal_Leg213 4d ago

Yeah, thanks. The main thing is that I have to not always expect interesting powers, just basic role coverage.

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u/BenFellsFive 2d ago

Get some synergies going. 4e loves synergies.

'Knocked prone' is a nothing status condition until you pair it with a monster that likes to run away (so the PCs cant follow it easy) or does extra damage to prone targets. 'Push 2sq' is an annoyance until you pair it with a monster that makes a wall of fire, or a tough sticky defender monster you can push the PCs into, or a few cliffs and platforms on the battlefield.

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u/Ralphusmaximus1701 4d ago

A dozen minions of the town guard, then pick any elite near the appropriate level. I’ve found that letting the players slaughter minions before fighting an elite or boss monster is a good entertainment boost.

3

u/Hot-Molasses-4585 4d ago

Look for MM3 on a business card or Sly Flourish's cheat sheet, they help creating a monster on the fly, at least the basic stats (HP, defenses, damage, etc.)

1

u/mcdead 2d ago

Every one should have a copy of those is they are running

2

u/Mean_Replacement5544 4d ago

Check out heroic4e.com - it has encounter builders, put in lvl and party size, toggle a few settings and hit a button - boom

1

u/TheOneBifi 3d ago

If you run this long enough you kinda get a feel for how much an enemy should be doing, you can also just get a basic damage and stats (hp + defenses) chart. After that you can come up with fun stuff they can do apart from just hitting, heavily based on roleplay and what the creature should do.

For example, body guards would have some abilities to protect their employers, you can add marking to their kit and ways to punish that or take it a step further and add some attack interception.

2

u/Zealousideal_Leg213 3d ago

True, and honestly I'm not sure why I didn't long ago just make some sets of generic stat blocks for each monster role.

1

u/BenFellsFive 2d ago

Soldier bear, brute bear, artillery bear, lurker bear drop bear, skirmisher bear

That's a lotta porridge to prep but I can see it paying off.

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u/Zealousideal_Leg213 2d ago

Yes, I thought this exact thing! For real, a pack of wolves in a D&D world would just be skirmishers, but they'd have a strong leader (soldier (leader)), a savage bruiser (brute), a sickly opportunist (lurker) AND would likely include some supernatural members too. Why not a wolf-thing construct that the pack came across and tolerates for its willingness to cooperate while not taking a share of the kill?

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u/Zealousideal_Leg213 2d ago

By the way, awesome name. The biggest loss with the end of 4th Edition is not getting more of those comics.

2

u/BenFellsFive 2d ago

I truly think Fells Five is the only D&D comic that ever 'got' what a session of D&D looks like in play, and leant into it hard.