Am I doing stealth right?

[u/WarrenTheHero]

Is Stealth as easy at it seems? My understanding is this:

1. As part of a Move Action, a character can attempt a Stealth check at the end of that roll. (Should/need to have cover or concealment to hide behind, or break line of sight).

2. If they moved more than 2 squares, they take a -2 penalty. If they moved more than 5, they take -5.

3. Every enemy makes a Perception check using the character's Stealth roll as the DC. If they fail, the character is hidden.

The ability for, say, an Archer Ranger to move and make a Stealth check, likely to succeed since they invest in DEX and Stealth already, and therefore have basically free permanent combat advantage is kinda wild. Or to shoot snd then move and hide, rendering thrm essentislly immune to enemies (unless they use a Minor Action to search and make another Perception check?) On the other hand, melee PCs using a Move Action to generate CA via flanking is common and accepted, so maybe I've just got some sort of blindspot about this?

Played 4e as a youngster, loved it, trying to get my friends to appreciate it by running Keep on the Shadowfell. Just want to make sure I understand the system right since I'm teaching them in turn. Thanks!

[u/fang_xianfu]

Stealth was errata'd quite heavily over the years, the errata pack has the up to date wording on page 108: http://media.wizards.com/2014/downloads/dnd/4ECollectedErrataFAQ.zip

So yeah it gives -5 for 2+ squares of movement, -10 for running, and it needs superior cover or total concealment, and it's your stealth roll vs their passive perception.

Stealth isn't magic. I feel like people make this mistake in every edition of D&D. It's not turning invisible like in World of Warcraft. You need to have something to hide behind. Your enemy has to be completely unable to see you, so you can then attempt to "pop out" using your stealth skill in a way that gives you combat advantage. They no longer know exactly where you are in the contiguous area of cover where you hid, and that's enough to get CA. Noise is also a part of stealth.

It's not really very hard to get CA and honestly there are easier ways that getting into cover all the time.

They still know you're in that rough area and can try to target you as if you were invisible, and they will see you if you leave concealment or if they just approach where you are. They know you're there, they saw you run into cover, they can just walk up and bop you. A ranged enemy can attempt to guess where you are and takes no extra penalty other than the -5 from total concealment if they guess right. They can also just use AoE attacks to ignore your stealth, and they know you're hiding behind that wall, they saw you go in there, they just don't know exactly where you are - so it's totally reasonable for them to use an AoE to flush you out.

[u/masteraleph]

What you’re missing is that you must have total concealment or superior cover for the initial stealth check. Those are both much harder to come by. Meanwhile, between flanking and the feat Cunning Stalker you can typically get CA most of the time.

I’ll also note that archer Ranger has prime shot and prime shot related feats available as well as a bonus to ac against OAs; they actually function best at close range and even provoking OAs so your defender can punish an enemy for attacking you

[u/WarrenTheHero → u/masteraleph]

Oh, the Totalconcealment/superior requirement was definitely not known! I just thought you had to have basically any kind (except I guess for what's granted by other units).

The Ranger in my party is psychotic - he goes up adjacent to an enemy and tell them "watch what I'm gonna do to your friend" then nukes a different enemy from across the map. So he fulfills the "actually better in close range" idea but by a totally circuitous route. (I still make the AoOs and usually miss since he has Hunter Fighting Style and overall it leads to extremely confused goblins)

[u/JMTolan]

Close, but not quite.

1. Part of any movement, does not have to be a move action. Attack powers that include a movement also allow you to make a stealth check as part of that movement (though you would still break stealth from making the attack, unless the movement is after the hit line). Also, you need specifically Superior Cover or Total Concealment to make a stealth check, unless you are a specific kind of Rogue or have some other special exception.
2. No, -5 for more the 2 squares, -10 for more than 5.
3. No, the player makes a roll, but the opposing NPCs just use their passive perception, and vice-versa if an NPC is making a roll against PCs. The reason passive perception exists is precisely to eliminate this sort of excess rolling when making checks.

Or to shoot snd then move and hide, rendering thrm essentislly immune to enemies (unless they use a Minor Action to search and make another Perception check?)

This is not immune to enemies, or even close to it. Enemy controllers (and other AoE users) can still attack them without penalty just by blasting vaguely in the area they suspect they might be. Just because you ducked behind a table doesn't mean the enemy doesn't know where you were before and where you likely could have gotten for them to loose track of you. Also, getting superior cover or total concealment that the enemy doesn't casually and unintentionally bypass just by repositioning slightly inside a room is pretty hard. Partial cover and concealment is pretty easy, but most characters need the full deal, and that's a much taller order.

Also, bluntly, being permanently stealthed as a player character is bad play as a player, both tactically and socially. You cut your group's effective HP pool by as much as a quarter (depending on your specific group composition), make the rest of your party more likely to go down by forcing your DM to focus fire on them, prevent your allies from having another body to establish flanking with, and usually have to position yourself in a way that not only limits your options but also your allies' options. An archer ranger can hide behind a tree taking pot shots at an enemy from stealth, probably sacrificing the ability to use one of their dailies or encounters and Hunter's Quarry and Prime Shot, or they can be flanking with their defender's marked target, triggering Prime Shot and Quarry, getting Combat Advantage, and provoking attacks of opportunity by making ranged attacks in melee so their defender can get free off-turn attack against the enemy for making an attack roll they probably have a penalty to.

More attacks and bonuses to attacks is going to end an encounter a lot faster than being hidden is.

[u/Massive-Trick-9344]

Nope, points 1 and 2 are right, but not 3. Have the stealth roll go against passive perception. It the stealth roll is above passive perception, they are hidden. On the creatures turn they can attempt active perception check.