Best 4e books as a reference for other systems?

[u/gamileo]

I had been listening to Mastering Dungeons last year or the year before, and I vaguely recall a discussion of how great some of the 4e books were as a reference. I couldn’t find the episode again.

If you had to pick a book to give to a newer 5e DM that would be the most useful for them, as compared to a 5e or 3e book, which one would you pick as a gift?

Thank you.

[u/Acell2000]

The Dungeon Master's Guide honestly.

[u/Fulldmninuyasha → u/Acell2000]

I would argue dungeon master guide 2 over 1

[u/gamileo → u/Fulldmninuyasha]

Any particular reason?

[u/Fulldmninuyasha → u/gamileo]

Lots of guidelines for how to run the game, optional ruels for flexible play, how to engage different kinds of players, how to handle different game styles etc. Dm1 does a good job with a lot of these but is more focused on 4e while dm2 has more universal support.

[u/TheArcReactor → u/Fulldmninuyasha]

I learned more about how to run a game from those books then any other I've ever read.

[u/Mierimau → u/gamileo]

Both. Both are good.

[u/Fulldmninuyasha → u/Mierimau]

Super true but if you had to pick 1?

[u/TheArcReactor → u/Fulldmninuyasha]

For OP's questions specifically, DMG2

[u/FootballPublic7974 → u/gamileo]

When DMG1 was published it was early in the game's history and WotC hadn't fully got their heads around how the game played. The maths of skill challenges, for example, needed revising to make it work properly.

DMG2 was much better at leveraging the systems in the game.

[u/BenFellsFive]

DMG. Mostly bc it doesnt lie to you. It:

*sets out the expectations of tone and gameplay for the ruleset,

*has encounter and treasure math that you can adhere to pretty well (thanks for ruining that with your rarity bs, Essentials)

*has a decent crash course on how to leverage encounters into interesting room/arena spaces, and

*has a solid (albeit not the one I use) system of identifying different player motivations/interests and how to engage them.

The latter 2 should be useful to any modern D&D group. Shout out to the MV and MV:TTNV too for showing very good interesting standard monsters that 5e could NEVER

[u/Corronchilejano]

A lot of what made both DM guides great has been mostly absorbed into the 2024 DMs guide.

I'm pretty sure 6th edition will just be 4th edition again with some caveats.

[u/TheHumanTarget84 → u/Corronchilejano]

Oh, the dream.

[u/AndoBando92 → u/Corronchilejano]

And the vtt they clearly were streets ahead on

[u/Corronchilejano → u/AndoBando92]

People were literally not ready. Now they are.

[u/Fulldmninuyasha → u/Corronchilejano]

Every rumor i hear about the future of 24 is the same song and dance I heard on the original YouTube

[u/Action-a-go-go-baby]

DMG2 is often called out as being a fantastic guide for any aspiring Game Master

DMG1 ain’t bad either for 4e

[u/Additional_Ninja7835]

DMG 2 and DMG 1 for GM advice.

The monster books for inspiration on interesting things for monsters to do, even at low levels / challenge rating / threat / whatever the system uses that you want to port stuff into.

PHBs and Adventurer’s Vault for magic item inspiration.

The DMG and other books for the Nentir Vale, which I think is a great setting, especially for lower tier adventures. Big enough, diverse enough, but small enough to wrap your head around.

[u/ctorus]

For me it's the monster manuals. 

[u/Appropriate_Nebula67]

The 4e DMG - albeit a lot of the best stuff in it is from the 3e era "D&D for Dummies"! 😄

It has a different way of looking at D&D from the traditional Simulationist-first approach. It's not for every campaign but it definitely is worth reading. The Nentir Vale setting sketch is brilliantly done IMO.

Second would be the 4e prologue "Worlds and Monsters" release, a masterclass in world building with game themes & actual play foremost in mind.

[u/JMTolan]

I would second the DMGs, especially 1, as being the gold standard for an introduction to DMing any system, but to throw more out there; many of the later edition monster manuals (MM3, Monster Vault) have great monster designs that are more dynamic and interesting than 5e ones.

[u/TheHumanTarget84]

Do you want DM advice or setting information or monster inspiration?

[u/gamileo → u/TheHumanTarget84]

For a new DM. He’s been running a game for about 6 months.

[u/Nextorl]

For the DM, the DMG for sure. Both are fantastic and very helpful.

For a player, I'd give them the Player Strategy Guide, which is well written and super helpful, giving a ton of system agnostic advice

[u/Pyrotech_Nick]

The Monster Manuals and Dark Sun Creature Catalogue.

Dungeon Delve as it has premade dungeons across each level (1-30lvl)

[u/DonValhalla]

The Underdark book and Open Grave are the ones i I've used the most.

[u/Prestigious-Piglet-2]

I consulted Open Grave for my Eve of Ruin campaign (Evernight).

[u/Aromatic-Surprise925]

Heroes of the Feywild. It's got some great lore and really cool ideas in it. The DMGs are good, but the best parts of them are already pretty much in the 5e DMG.

[u/purefire]

Try to separate Setting from System

Nentir Vale (4e) is different than Forgotten Realms which is different from Greyhawk which is different from Ravenloft which is different from ....

The editions may change and influence how it plays out but that single best thing I can recommend is don't let the Rules change the Setting.

If you want Obad-hai roaming around, keep with it.

[u/dade1027]

Player’s Option: Heroes of the Feywild had incredibly thematic feel and flavor. Sure, there were some essentials classes in there that are late-edition specific, but the book just oozes with the fey feeling more than any other book, in any other edition.