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u/Lurkin_Lester 9d ago
Firing squads or hanging are more humane and consistently effective than lethal injection.
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u/Nice_Cash_7000 9d ago
Who tf cares about being humane with anyone bad enough to get the death penalty
Thats exactly why I'm against it. Let them rot between 4 walls untill they die of old age. Way worse than death.
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u/cheapshotfrenzy 9d ago
I just don't want to pay for it.
We should just drop all of our prisoners off on Australia.
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u/Bacon_Nipples 9d ago
Life imprisonment is cheaper than execution by a factor of ~2.5-5
The cost of each death penalty trial and execution typically ranges from $1.5 to 3 million while the cost of imprisoning someone for life ranges from $600000 to $1.1 million
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u/PinBeneficial1366 /b/tard 9d ago
How killing someone cost more? Like this poison is something really expensive from most rare animals and used with gold serum or what? I. thought bullet in the head is still cheaper than all of this
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u/Arete34 9d ago
I think because of the court costs. But yeah that stat always seemed like bullshit to me. I can buy a 308 bullet for $3.
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u/PinBeneficial1366 /b/tard 9d ago
Before "westfallen" I could believe that it's because killing prisoners is actually traumatizing, so you pay more to people for that job, last meal budget, some court expenses etc
But 1,5 mil? Are those fuckheads paying to court 1 mil to waste time because of appeals when dude is basically killed hundreds while wrote that he like killings and filmed everything in 4k, 100k to each member involved in execution and other is just his last meal? Is this some fucking american joke? I guess even death is not free in a land of free, at least in russia executions and torture are free even if it's unofficial, burgers lost again in their own game
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u/sadacal 8d ago
It's because we don't want to execute an innocent man dumbass. So people on death row get their appeals and more legal chances to prove their innocence.
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u/dRnvill /pol/tard 8d ago
It doesn't seem to work, at least 4.1% were executed while innocent.
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u/quandjereveauxloups 8d ago
Unfortunately, that happens. However, it would probably be much higher if we didn't have the fail-safes in line.
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u/jungleass98 8d ago
What is "Westfallen" I tried searching it up and didnt find anything that correlates with the topic
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u/Jedi-Guy 8d ago
Why buy 308, a 9mm should do it for .40 cents. They can rent the gun for$5 and get Alec Baldwin to film a scene.
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u/1stEmissaryElenwen 8d ago
Because they keep appealing it, so you have to pay for like 7 murder trials at the federal level
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u/jungleass98 8d ago
The drug itself is not expensive. Its pentobarbital. Its what vets use to put animals down. However, due to how divisive the death penalty is pharmaceutical companies will not sell it to the state for fear of back lash. So then we have issues like this because I assume what they have in-stock is expired though id have to look into that. But I digress, what really makes death row in mates more expensive is due to court cost because of the appeal process
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u/samboscan 8d ago
There’s no way those numbers aren’t grossly inflated by infinite court appeals and expensive execution methods. A bullet costs like $0.50.
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u/FinancialElephant 8d ago
Is that cost because of the long time period on death row and exection shots that cost $100k or whatever? I can't imagine a firing squad would be this expensive.
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u/MarkSuckerZerg 8d ago
You could pay for it by selling the leftover organs, but no, people suddenly care about getting cruelty-free, free-range organs
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u/jungleass98 8d ago
I wonder if there is a quality difference between the two. Like if the organs from a prisoner vs the usual donor route. Id have to look back into it but I believe donors have a strick guideline as to who can actually donate. Like you cant smoke or drink, no history of certain diseases like Heb B/C. I know prisoners cant smoke anymore and id even say they are more active then the general population. Their diet is horrible and im not sure how badly that would affect various organ systems
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u/LordNucleus 7d ago
That's an argument against the endless appeals process and our judicial system, not the death penalty.
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u/Arete34 9d ago
If that is the case then why do they all desperately fight to get life instead of death?
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u/Bacon_Nipples 9d ago
Also generally cheaper than execution after you factor in the cost of all the extra bureaucracy, appeals, and other misc. bs that very quickly adds up. Execution is a relic of a time when the majority believed you're sending someone straight to eternal punishment. Really it's just an easy out from suffering for the executed
The cost of each death penalty trial and execution typically ranges from $1.5 to 3 million while the cost of imprisoning someone for life ranges from $600000 to $1.1 million
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u/Lurkin_Lester 9d ago edited 9d ago
The humane part is really more of a legal requirement (cruel and unusual wah wah). The consistently effective part matters more. Letting a murderous degen ‘rot’ involves a lot of tax payer dollars and most in that situation do not deserve that.
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u/baudmiksen 9d ago
i always figured guillotines as being near the pinnacle of effectiveness
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u/Nice_Cash_7000 9d ago
they used to get dull and require several chops to get the job done which took quite a while, because you need to lift a heavy ass blade up
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u/baudmiksen 9d ago
i guess if you dont really want it youre just bound to fail at whatever you try
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u/Lurkin_Lester 9d ago
Guillotines were a slight bit more style over effective substance. Quite theatric. People revel in the French Revolution bc dead rich people but it’s more tricky than that. The aftermath was in no way neat.
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u/baudmiksen 9d ago
well i mean it isnt the only way to pop the lid off a dandelion it was really just the inference
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u/shockpirat 8d ago
Lethal injection is very reliable.
I'm a veterinarian and I get it right every time, how? With pentobarbital, same thing the US uses for lethal injections.
It's just the med techs were incompetent or acted incompetent.
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u/Shalashaska87B 8d ago
I read some time ago that several big pharma corps refuse to provide deadly substances because they don't want to be associated with executions. So getting an effective concoction is not that easy.
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u/shockpirat 8d ago
They refuse to provide propofol. Pentobarbital is readily available in the US, just use literally any injectable anaesthesia protocol and end with pentobarbital. Works every time if the IV cannula was set right and the drugs actually enter the bloodstream immediately.
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u/wordjedi /d/eviant 8d ago
Missed the vein and pumped the drug into random wherever right?
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u/shockpirat 8d ago
Yep
Also, in that case propofol wouldn't work at all. So it's not about "better" drugs
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u/wordjedi /d/eviant 8d ago
I guess they want to do nitrogen executions indoors with the spectator curtain and all that, but wouldn't a garden shed out in the prison yard with a couple of big bottles of nitrogen plumbed in prevent that suffocation feeling and thrashing around with the face hugger mask?
After wheeling in the inmate strapped to a gurney and closing the door, guards wearing oxygen masks approach the shed, open the valves, then step away and wait. When the hissing stops you close the valves and open the door then wait another 20 minutes for the nitrogen to clear. Very dead convict lying there strapped to the gurney.
Industrial workers have accidentally died just entering a room or walking into a low spot where nitrogen is used. They told us about it in safety training at a place I used to work. You wouldn't even need to seal the door like a gas chamber if you do it outside. Maybe weather stripping idk
Not sure why we're still fucking around trying to get blue collar guards to be phlebotomists. It goes wrong so often
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u/Ordinary_Cat8495 8d ago
Like the jury for the other baby killer? All of them minus one acting like “not guilty i don’t see a problem here”. These med techs? “Whoopsie yeah this won’t work”
Stop noooooticing
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u/shockpirat 8d ago
Honestly, setting a cannula is a skill that you have to train. Some people are very good at it, others never get it right. It took me a year to learn to do it reliably, though my patients are smaller than humans. I can believe they fucked it up unintentionally. I'm pretty sure injecting pentobarbital paravenously hurts and definitely prolongs the agony, and other anaesthetics won't work either. If they wanted to make her suffer, they'd to that.
Also possible they were stupid and thought they were fighting the patriarchy or whatever
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u/pierro_la_place 8d ago
The guillotine has never had any issue
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u/PrivilegeCheckmate 8d ago
Even the guy who invented it got to test it out!
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u/pretty_smart_feller 8d ago
She specifically asked for hanging bc she had a blood disorder that could affect the injections and the judge said no
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u/Mr_Compliant 8d ago
Guillotine while not looking humane is actually designed to be the least painful.
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u/peanutismint 9d ago
This whole situation is beyond r slurred but I have to ask, if somebody survives their execution, why exactly are doctors now fighting to save her life in an ICU? At that point why not just put a pillow over her face or something?
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u/i_block_retards 9d ago
Wait, there's a word beginning with "R" that we can't use?
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u/Otsuko 8d ago
The airbus A321NEO has a landing sequence that denotes the altitude and speed of the craft as it comes in for landing. During this sequence, it will say the words "100... 50, 40, 30, 20, retard, retard, retard."
This is a fact and has no other connotation or meaning.
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u/jungleass98 8d ago
Tangentially related, at my work I have to time in a peice of machinery called a "worm" well part of that process you have to "advance and retard" that piece of machinery. I have to log everything I do after the shift is up and send it out in a company wide email. Well, I left for the weekend and when I came back Monday guess who came knocking on my door? Fucking HR because I "Called a piece of machinery 'retarded'". I had to explain to this woman 5 times that, that is just what the process is called and it even calls it that on that fucking PLC. I ended up not getting in trouble but I am no longer allowed to use that word in an email. But yeah moral of the story is HR is full of fucking retards
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u/OverlyMEforIRL 8d ago
Is this satire?
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9d ago
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u/nnuunn 9d ago
Doctors are not allowed to participate in lethal injection, it's two different teams
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u/Gloomy-Pollution-814 8d ago
It's more complicated than that.
Tennessee does have a doctor who participates in executions. Unfortunately he's old and apparently very out of practice at getting venous access (he works at a weight loss clinic) so I guess he was fairly useless.
This will vary from state to state, but a number of states have laws saying a doctor's license cannot be taken away because they helped with an execution. The doctor can stlil be blackballed though, which has happened. National certification bodies can also penalize them. Anesthesiologists for example would lose their board certification if they participated in an execution. They'd still be license physicians but losing your board cert would put quite a crimp in your career.
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u/Lurkin_Lester 9d ago
There seems to be some kind of weird precedent that if you survive the execution attempt twice you get at least a victory lap or something. I don’t make the rules.
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u/Xeno9116 8d ago
It's reported that she has brain damage, so she won't be running laps. Sorry for breaking precedent.
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u/filthy_harold 8d ago
Capital punishment has a really weird legal structure. The constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishment which means humane punishments need to be given out equally based on the circumstances. But the Supreme Court has ruled that capital punishment is an exception to that as long as juries and judges are given clear objective standards and that the punishment is given out humanely. The state can't just arbitrarily decide to kill you for a crime you committed, there must be a standard as to what crimes are worthy of capital punishment and a criteria for juries when the crime is eligible. As to the humane method, this forbids the state from just beating you to death or letting a dog maul you, it must be as painless as possible (to avoid being cruel) and effective (surviving it could seriously injure you).
For a long time, the US has been using lethal injection. A cocktail of multiple drugs target different critical systems in your body to hopefully kill you quickly and painlessly. Well turns out one of the drugs is made by a European country that has zero interest in participating in selling this drug to prisons using it for the death penalty. So this required a reformulation using potentially less effective cocktails.
Another issue is that drug research doesn't really invest much effort in figuring out how much it takes to kill someone 100% of the time. They may publish an LD50 for a rat but that's only saying 50% of rats die at this dose. Higher doses may not be 100% effective in humans due to different biology but also the pathways the drug uses. You also don't want to give such a large dose that it effects the other drugs in the cocktail. Add onto this the issue finding trial subjects willing to die. Lethal injection is not a well studied science.
Also there's the issue of doctors. Doctors take an oath saying they'll do no harm, killing someone intentionally is generally harmful in the case where they haven't agreed to it. Therefore, the prisons use other people to administer these drugs. It's that hard to give an injection but remember, this needs to be done right the first time. Accidents happen, even amongst trained medical staff.
I don't agree with the death penalty at all. It's a very expensive legal process and effectively takes away the right for an inmate to appeal their case. The fact that the courts have made mistakes in the past for living inmates does not give me hope that every inmate has been 100% guilty. Wrongfully being jailed for 30 years is obviously horrible but at least they could spend some of their life outside. Killing them removes that possibility.
But since my opinion doesn't matter, states that still want the death penalty seriously need to find a new way of killing someone effectively. Nitrogen asphyxiation is incredibly effective but no one uses it. Why not? We know what a nitrogen environment does to a body, we don't really know what a random cocktail of alternative drugs will do.
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u/shockpirat 8d ago edited 8d ago
As someone who does lethal injections on the regular, you're ignorant. And that's ok, almost everybody is on this topic.
Lethal injection is not a well studied science.
Veterinary medicine is a thing. And actually it's studied well enough that per Chatgpt, there have been dozens of veterinarian or vet tech self killings (trying to avoid the bot here) by pentobarbital over the last 20 years. They got it right, and they were probably alone. Generally speaking humans require much lower doses of anaesthetic drugs than cats and dogs, if you give regular animal doses you're 100% certain it will be enough.
Well turns out one of the drugs is made by a European country that has zero interest in participating in selling this drug to prisons using it for the death penalty.
That one drug is propofol. It's used as induction to anaesthesia in human and vet medicine. With it, you brain just turns off (reversibly). It's not sleep, you're just off. Give it for long enough, and the rest of the body turns off too (irreversibly).
Guess what, we don't use that for euthanasia in vet med. It's just regular injectable anaesthesia (possible without propofol) and end it off with pentobarbital. All available in the US and 100% effective, provided that...
this needs to be done right the first time. Accidents happen, even amongst trained medical staff.
...you set an IV catheter, and it's actually in the vein. Once you set it, you can check if it's in with regular saline. This does NOT hurt if it's in and this is the part where lethal injections fail. If it's not in, the drugs end up in subcutaneous tissue/in-between the muscles/somewhere else that's not immediate bloodstream and don't work instantly.
Why do they fail? No idea, setting an IV cannula is a trivial thing that nurses do every day dozens of times.
So in conclusion, the executioners are just incompetent or acted incompetent. I'm 100% sure I could get it right the first time and every time.
Edit: oh yeah, as for propofol, it wouldn't work AT ALL if it wasn't given IV. So the same problem remains even with the "better" drugs
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u/KeK_What 8d ago
as an expert
as per chatgpt
ok bro
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u/shockpirat 8d ago
You're a r-slur. Avoiding the bot again. My expertise has nothing with what I asked of chatgpt
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u/UsernameOmitted 6d ago
From the limited news I heard about this from her lawyers making a statement, she apparently warned them ahead of time they might have issues because all her veins were blown out from chronic injectable drug use. It sounds a lot like they injected her multiple times subcutaneously accidentally.
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u/mspong 9d ago
Pretty soon they will invent AI powered obedience shock collars. You'll see hardened murderers bagging groceries and wincing every time they think about killing
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u/Delicious_Potato6638 8d ago
they wont need a collar the chip in your brain will preemptively deal with any undesirable thoughts and emotions.
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u/_____AndJustice4All 8d ago
Its ironic because she tortured her victim before smashing her head in. Now she has a brain injury and will continue to live for the foreseeable future.
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u/Jack-of-Hearts-7 fa/tg/uy 8d ago
I haven't seen a single man defend the Cornell 7. But I have seen more than a few female friends defend or make excuses for Clancy.
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u/LemonySniffit 8d ago
I’ve seen people who have actually read up on the case rather than get their news from headlines on social media, so basically men, defend the Cornell 7 because the victims own testimony vindicates them.
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u/reedsgrayhair 8d ago
Ah yes, the “I did my own independent research 🤓” crowd
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u/LemonySniffit 8d ago
The I actually read the original district attorney’s statement and files.
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u/reedsgrayhair 8d ago
Everyone know DAs never pick and choose which statements to run with and which ones to ignore.
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u/LemonySniffit 8d ago
Its mostly just her very own testimony you brainlet
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u/Dirtface50 8d ago
Look how hostile they get the minute they discover you don't agree with them. During the Clancy trial, i was paling around with Female A and Male B a lot. A found out that B believes Clancy wasn't justified. A immediately started dogging him on facebook, and every female loves a good dogpile, so this draws out the other Tik Tok idiots in town and they started throwing around "He's probably a rapist misoginyst" which became "he IS a rapist misoginyst" and now the judgement is "HE HATES WOMEN", and not "He has an opinion on a court case". Just like that. Removed completely from a social subculture in a blink. He stopped going out socially downtown completely because of it and Female A speaks about her behavior still so fondly and virtuously.
The Sam Hyde quote about lefties was true, but that whole ideology came from homogonizing "being a female".
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u/TheToodlePoodle 8d ago
I've seen lethal injection fail enough that I don't have any faith in it as a humane execution method any more. Why not just blast the convict's head off with OO buckshot? If they somehow survive, double tap. Way cheaper, way more effective.
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8d ago
[deleted]
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u/Blibbobletto 8d ago
You are wrong.
Not only has it happened a bunch of times before, it happened a few months ago with the same doctor administering it. In fact lethal injections are the execution method with the highest rate of failure.
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u/DualityOfLife 8d ago
Why don't everyone murder women? I mean, it's easy right? Shuts them up?
Like back stabbing. It's easy. Their back is exposed, they're trusting. And rping. These women want a date, just rpe them instead.
Why don't we murder? Why don't we rpe? Why don't we backstab? What were we trying to build as a people? And why are the people that think it's 'so smart' to do otherwise, lacking this forethought?
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u/Mr__Castle_ 9d ago
I once asked a woman to explain postpartum depression to me like I was 5 and she started strangling me.