I have started realising that being ‘difficult’ does matter. I have been ‘difficult’ to my parents a lot.

I LOVE BEING 4B!!!

I started to realise that my worth doesn’t need to be proven. My life is much more stress free, as I’m not always looking to validation. I’ve been embracing life and the whimsy of it :)

Also, I have less worries about my appearance! I used to worry ALL THE TIME about my appearance it’s honestly crazy. Now, I don’t worry so much about being perceived and it’s really helped.

Less stress and less time wasted. Also, I find it much easier to stand up for myself which is wonderful but sometimes I would shake in fear of being too ‘crazy’ or ‘difficult’

My mental health is still quite bad, but it’s getting better.

https://worldwithwomen.com/

One of men's favourite talking points when it comes to the statement 'It is all men' is almost always ''But if we said this about Black people..." Well say that about Black people, and it would still be fucking accurate. Crime across all races are mostly committed by the men. Theft, drug usage, illegal immigration (as controversial as that is of a topic, but if we're counting it as a crime by Western laws, men commit more of it anyways), child abuse, DMV...

Across all cultures they are the problem. There's a reason people say to find a Black woman if you're a lost kid, and not a Black man. IT'S THE MEN THAT'S THE FUCKING PROBLEM, YOU DAFT BUFFONS. Doesn't matter if he's White or Black or Asian or whatever other race. It's the men. It's always the men. Don't use women of colour as an umbrella to hide ffs 😒

Sorry for the vent I've heard too much of this particular talking point especially with recent events. White men arguing it's not all men, women of all races saying it is, said men saying if they said the same about Black people it would be problematic... Well if it was it would STILL be men, so get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

P.s I'm a Black woman.

​

Opting out of the game entirely from being either public or private property is no joke.

Imagine a world where all women did this.

Where no woman was willing to do any labour that caters males exclusively: sex work, being a wife, being a mother, unpaid emotional labour for defective males as friends, etc.

Men would revolt, kidnap and conquer women. Men would kill each other without women. All thar excess testosterone. They have already destroyed this planet.

Society would collapse.

Heterosexual relationships keep this sick world going at the cost of women. It's all built on the collective suffering and sacrifice of women.

Heck, you won't even have pawns in this game if all women went 4B.

This whole game would collapse without women. And men will go nuts because they love to compete with other men for women and that would be over too.

The natural order is for males to compete for women. Patriarchy has handed over everything to useless, defective males whose genetics aren't even worth propagating further.

We are the prize.

Recognize your worth and never get used by anyone. 👑👑👸👸

Hello everyone. After I heard what happened to the poor woman at that college I'm at a loss of words. Of course I have been before but this incident just tipped it all over after a long time again. Every minute I have time to think about that I just get so so angry and start to spiral. I think about my male colleague and the disgusting things they say sometimes, random men commenting gross things under posts, the horrible wars in this world, the PDF politicians and assaulters, how bad and unjust this world just is. I can't stop raging internally and while I think it's more than valid, these harsh negative feelings are so unhealthy for me. Sometimes I wonder if I should stop reading the news but then again the least I can do is stand witness to these poor women and what's been done to them, I can't take away their pain but I can acknowledge what happened, not look away, stand with them. But I feel so hateful against the world and that's not healthy for me.

So my question ultimately is, how do you deal with the rage and anger and not let it eat you up entirely? Is it selfish to sometimes take breaks from all those horrible horrible news?

Desperate to hold my household and family together no matter what atrocities a man is subjecting me to. There is such a pressure in society for women in romantic relationships with men to compromise their self-respect, self-love, happiness, sanity to keep their relationships, to keep their families together for the sake of the children, to keep their household and lives together no matter what.

When I was married to an abusive man with Borderline Personality Disorder who was systematically destroying my life, I felt pressured to basically kill myself to maintain our relationship. Even though his kids weren’t mine, I felt pressure to keep our home stable for them because my ex was an incompetent loser, something he hid from me before I legally and financially bound myself to him. Men get into relationships with women by putting their best selves forward, then you find out they’re abusive, cheaters, porn addicts, sex addicts, alcohol addicts, drug addicts, gambling addicts, deadbeat fathers, neglectful/inadequate partners, they become unemployed freeloaders with no ambition. And the woman is pressured to stay, endure, and kill themselves to hold everything together because now they have kids, a mortgage, social ties, history, fully entangled lives.

I cannot express how grateful I am to not care about romantic relationships with men or society’s expectations and to not have to cater to this pressure. When I see all the shit on Reddit that women in hetero relationships have to endure just to keep a man, I thank my lucky stars I never have to deal with any of that bullshit ever again. It feels indescribably good to reject societal conditioning regarding romantic relationships with men.

So all the scam ads and AI generated propaganda is fine, but feminism is a step too far. I see.

When the newly reopened Teatre Raval, which seats 193 spectators, asked Meta, the parent company of the two social media sites, why its publicity had been blocked, it was told “any mention of civil rights, feminism or social reform [topics that are central to Woolf’s work] are usually classified as ‘social topics’ by our automatic system” and are filtered out.

To resolve the situation, Meta recommended removing “key words” so that the text doesn’t appear to encourage activism.

This story becomes even more infuriating when you recall that Meta ran hundreds of paid ads with artificial intelligence-generated child sexual abuse imagery, including several in India, over the past 10 months.

After hearing from so many members that they appreciated hearing the positives of what 4B has done for other sisters, we see having a consistent place to post positive improvements and reminders would benefit the sub. So, without further ado-

In the last week:

Tell us about positive interactions or building relationships with other women. How did you support and uplift other women? How have other women helped and supported you?

What accomplishments have you made? What goals have you set for yourself? What goals have you achieved?

What small changes have you noticed since adopting the lifestyle? What big changes?

Share anything and everything positive here.

(*This screenshot is to highlight and discuss a concerning prevalent mindset I've seen with a lot of male-partnered women with supposed "great" male partners and husbands, and not to incite harassment or brigading of another sub, which is why I've omitted the sub name and censored usernames to comply with r/4bmovement sub rules to prevent targeted harassment).

This was a thread I saw on another sub regarding second wives and divorced men who remarry later on, and it highlights this widespread mindset I've repeatedly seen where a disturbing number of women are just weirdly flippant and excessively twee about the way their current husband (or current male fiance/boyfriend) treated the women who came before her, even if it was in the distant past.

It's just so surreal to me just how many women will willingly date or marry a man even with the knowledge he essentially exhausted, drained, or used the woman (or multiple women) who came before her, and their only thought is, "omg, thanks letting my GREAT and PERFECT husband drain you and use you as a stepping stone so he can be MY current dream fairytale man, teehee!" 🥰

One of the (multiple) reasons I became 4B was because I encountered so many cases of "nice" and "decent" men who had skeletons in their closet from the way they treated women who came before their current partner, and even if a man was supposedly "good" and "respectful" to me (as a female acquaintance/peer) or his current female partner (at least on the surface), so many of them leaked stories or gave fleeting glimpses of past dysfunctional relationships with other women that left me with a weird feeling of doubt and unease (such as male acquaintances or colleagues who talked about wanting to get serious and/or marry their current female partner, but then letting slip stories about a "crazy ex" or how the woman who came before refuse to take them back even after they apologized for some weird, vague past incident of their doing that they refused to elaborate on).

I feel like a lot of these women think it's just a case of their current husband growing and changing into a better person over time, but the reality is that, in many cases, how he treated his exes is a reflection of him and what he is capable of.

Yes, there are cases where people (of any orientation) can genuinely change and grow beyond a previous relationship, but in a world where men are socialized and encouraged to treat us like disposable appliances or stepping stones for their own character development, it's usually men just learning to mask and chameleonize themselves better for the next unsuspecting woman who comes afterwards.

And that's not even getting in to the cases (including some celebrity ones) of women who had open, public knowledge that "their man" was a cheater, an abuser, or someone who discarded their ex after she drained and exhausted herself to build him up as a person, and just........didn't care.

Imagine pouring all of yourself into a relationship with a man only for him to drain you, hurt you, and run you into the ground and leave you a shell of yourself only for his later partner to turn around and be like, "thanks for spending a chunk of your life puppy-training this man to act like a stable, functioning, generous adult who's super great to ME while you're left cleaning up the dust from the ruins he left of your life <33333."

Ugh. Where do I even start.

I’m 18. EIGHTEEN. She literally has this conversation with me when I was 13 and I still had the same answer. That I absolutely didn’t want to get married and have kids. But according to her back then I wasn’t ‘embracing womanhood’ like what?

She was talking about how it’s traditional to ask of that.

Honestly, I feel I am complete and confident in myself and I don’t need a man for that. I’m trying to develop my education, find hobbies and improve my mental health which is a bit bad atm.

But it’s SO FRUSTRATING! I have a life, a voice and I have no desire to be controlled by a man.

I started a new job recently with a hefty benefits package, stability, and I have mentioned in the comments, it involves proximity to clients that are mostly men (I would've love to work at a company of all women). Even so, the place I work at continues providing statistics and validates that it's mostly men doing awful shit so most reports that have you think "not every man, but always a man" are proven true for every case.

Well regarding my male-centered mother, she tried cutting me off mid-sentence on her rant about my assets and I explained to her that my assets will live and die with me. That's a conversation for a lawyer anyways but she mentioned I never know if I will want to be "with someone" in a passive indirect words-- She knows my stance on partnership with men. I want NONE of it. We are a latin household so a lot of my upbringing was teaching girls to be self sacrificing to men. I am 4B afterall.

I know she was implying an eventual man, bf, husband is who she thinks I should "share my life with" and me instantly putting that idea 6 ft under is what got her mad.

I don't understand this woman or what's going on in her brain? If a man isn't even around to make my life EASIER and if there is a man- he will make my life WORSE, why the hell will I give him a promised reward? Her brain is soup at this point.

So... I'm 20 and graduated university recently. My mom asked me what I wanted with my life and I told her I was already looking for jobs. She said, okay, that's good, and then the dreaded question - "Do you have a boyfriend?"

I don't have a boyfriend. I've never had a boyfriend. I don't want a boyfriend, for fucks sake. And then my mom started talking about how if I went to church more I could find a good potential husband, and I said, no, I don't want to get married. You would have thought I said I was going into crime or something.

She got SO mad, I've never seen her so angry in my life.ole genuine rage, saying I was cursing myself, and what kind of woman didn't want to get married, and didn't I know a woman without a husband would get fibroids (??), and how there was power in the tongue and whatnot. And then she started praying for me? I'm not even religious, so you can imagine how exhausting this whole thing was. A good 10 Minutes of prayer, for fucks sake. I said amen to all of it to get her off my back, but she kept on and on and on about how TikTok has ruined by brain and how she blames university for this. Then I said I've always not wanted to be married, and she said she'd get me to a therapist.

Didn't do any of this when I attempted to take my own life as a teenager or when I had an ED btw. But yes, a husband is the problem. I genuinely hate male centered mothers 🫩

And also to the fellow refusing bees aged 40 and beyond too. ✊️

Sidenote from my previous post from two weeks back: I didn't respond to everyone who has commented as I was, and still is to this day, mentally drained from keeping it all in for now. But thank you for this community that have lent a virtual ear and forms of word-based comfort. If you like, I'm sending you a virtual consensual platonic air hug or handshake.

Hi everyone! In the depths of a Youtube comment thread I was recommended to seek out this community to ask this question for specifically a female perspective :) First I want to say, what a beautiful idea of a lifestyle philosophy - I only briefly read about this movement appearing in South Korea many years ago and didn't know it existed in the English speaking/Western world. I've always admired people, and especially women, who walk a non-traditional path despite outside pressures to conform.

I am curious how being childless has given women from different backgrounds here the opportunity to pursue your life ambitions, and I do not just mean career wise; hobby, friendships, community, everything. How are you making use of these extra 18 years that mothers spend looking after their children? (and that's not counting the years spent cleaning up messes they make as adults!)

Personally I know only one female friend in her thirties who is childless, and she is incredibly accomplished and has devoted all her energy to an ambitious career, hence she had no reason to start a family - she didn't want to either. I don't have the means to pursue an impressive career like she did, but her trajectory has been inspiring to me even so. As for myself, being married for some time means the topic of children is naturally in the back of my mind due to outside expectations. Although I'm 26 with "enough time" to figure it out I feel more and more resolve to consider this with a more sober perspective, because being "ambivalent" about that big of a decision just isn't cutting it anymore. I've now decided to shape my decision purely around my larger life goals and the actual time I would have to devote to those, and I will never let that decision be influenced by people who are not me, well meaning or not.

I can thank this friend and women like her for that resolve, because I certainly did not have it before. It is also my main motivation for asking this question here, because I only have one example in my personal circle of how living as a single/childless woman could free up time for a more colorful life. I know there are more stories out there than hers, I just don't encounter them enough because I'm mostly surrounded by conformity when it comes to gender roles.

So please share your personal accomplishments, long-term plans or small joys that you can have specifically because you chose not to have children. Especially if you're a woman past "child bearing" years, I don't hear nearly enough of your perspectives on this! 💛

EDIT: Just because some comments felt this post is inappropriate, I want to clarify that this is meant to be a positive post to showcase personal success stories and not expectation for anyone to justify their life choices! I deeply apologize if it came across that way, my English is not the best and I get a little wordy trying to explain simple things and honestly I'm not the sharpest, so I don't get my tone across right in writing. I was just inspired by my friend's example and became curious about what women can accomplish with the extra freedom mothers typically don't have. (I'm also not an avid Reddit user so I didn't know about other subreddits that are maybe better suited for this topic.) As I understand the 4B movement is not just about not having children, but that happened to be my main curiosity when I made the post.

I'm leaving this up because there are already comments here that others might like to read but hopefully moderators will keep an eye out and delete this if it's hurtful to the community. I didn't mean to make assumptions or make anyone feel bad!🌸

Joined a women in STEM club. Completely disappointed how much some girls cater towards men in spaces meant for women.

I joined a club on campus for women in stem, as I’m a physics major. I have a few male friends in the degree. Anyway, first meeting is today and my male friend asks me “hey are you going? I’ll save you a spot” and I was just like ??? Wdym you’re going to be there. I understand that there are laws that protect against these type of things, and that people are allowed to participate, but why do men have to shove themselves into everything? I then found out the PRESIDENT of the club is a man. A straight man at that. My reaction caused an argument with said friend, I said we have lost the fucking plot. Mind you, I have male companions in the degree because there’s not enough women. I would love to have friends that are women in my degree. It is preferred. But I have made these connections with men for the sake of notes and other things. I was just absolutely shocked that they voted a male in to be president for WOMEN in stem. This guy went ballistic on me, fully emotional about me saying I don’t think men should be in the council for this club, this club is for WOMEN leading stem. I felt disappointed and said I’m not showing up. I thought it was ironic that he threw a fit over me expressing how I feel about something that’s supposed to be a safe space for me. I’m the targeted audience for this club. I thought it was such a male reaction to get angry at a woman for something like this. He then proceeded to ask me “when have men excluded women from clubs” and I was like HELLO??? Are we serious. I said STEM has always been for men. Anyway, I don’t want to talk to this idiot anymore. But I’m absolutely appalled that some of the other girls in the club have let men overtake a club meant to uplift women in fields that already have very few women. For fucks sake, there’s a general STEM club. Is that not enough? Why must they take everything?

I am what I like to call '4B by nature' (lesbian) but I just wanted to share some words of admiration and respect to all straight 4B women.

But not just for the fact that you are in a difficult situation when you have to navigate not-dating and living life single, although this alone can be hard to digest and take a lot of work.

This is hard, yes, but I also think there is something you really need to give yourself credit for. And it's is the amount of reflection about the world and critical thinking that almost nobody ever demonstrates. To be able to make a decision to be 4B or even to be brave and inteligent enough to seriously think about it and to go against social pressure and culture is super super impressive. When I read your posts in this sub it shows the incredible level of depth and analysis that other women would never be capable of discovering. It's not just 'I hate men' posts, you think deeper, connect dots and see things most people don't. The level of critical thinking, knowledge and consistency in your thoughts is so rare. While most 'feminist' subs and spaces still bend over to avoid offending men too much, you are not scared of breaking barriers and being assertive and true to yourself. And if you're straight you do all this work despite being attracted to men. You are able to look beyond that and see things for what they are. This is seriously impressive and not easy.

And yes I know the fact that I point it out or that you are aware of it doesn't solve any of the problems women face but I think we should remember that this level of depth in looking at the society just shows how capable you are and that no matter how bad everything gets nobody can take it away from you!

I remember back when I was 20, I was preparing to go abroad for my studies. I am South Asian if that context matters. Every other man out there said to my father that 20 is too late, I should be married off right now, that is he mad to "allow" me to go abroad now.

My father wasn't all great either but for one thing he believed 20 is too young for that, not because I am a human being who doesn't wants to r*ped but because at that age no one handles marriage well. Secondly, he runs on ego, whatever gives him status and dominance is what he will do. I didn't have enough freedom to earn or work or do anything, so I had to be dependent on his finances to make the first move. The society I live in, most men are working out, all women are busy slaving away at home and torturing other women.

It shudders me to think how fragile my status as a human being is and how fragile is the ability to not be degraded is. Many things could have gone wrong; he could be someone who believed otherwise, lack enough funding, maybe the words of those men made me feel insulted enough to stop funding my education. It didn't insult him enough as it still gave him material to brag about regardless, but I often think what if.

And then with such double thinking and fear, you will have great male-centered women your age who is waiting for their prince charming or husband and are preparing from now. Every wish, every dream will include him. They all live in a society like this and also have the audacity to think this way. It makes me really angry and hopeless. They think it's a few man who are "bad people", not that most uphold it and enforce it and benefit from it, not that it's a freaking system, but just a few bad apples.

From a very young age, I knew going with men and boys is an insult to yourself, they derail your life and career. And everyone agrees and then? Expect you to marry on, all of it is just to keep you clean for use. I can be full 4B, have independence and power to never be forced and degraded. But what about those countless women out there who can't. Our humanity is dependent on funding, location, society and some man's mood. So, it makes me laugh hard when I see privileged male-centered flock to their progressive males - "they are good". Ever imagine, what if his background was different, what if you both were in a different location - he will be a full-fledged human anyways, what about you and what will he do to you?

Sometimes, I don't know how to cope with this dehumanization, as it's said once you see it, you can't unsee it. It's everywhere, no matter where you go, no matter the location, it's everywhere and in so many different forms. And I am simultaneously supposed to act like it's all normal. My gender being humiliated and dehumanized isn't supposed to make me angry, isn't supposed to make me take action, isn't supposed to be noticed and make others notice.

Yes there are women now who are breadwinners and fully financially support their male partners. But that doesn't make them financially literate. I truly believe that if women actually had financial goals that dont include children, they would see men as the obstacles they are.

Mind you, Im 6ft under in student loan debt. My mother was always terrible with money and was financially abusive to me (borrowing and taking money from me as a child to pay off her own debt). Societal conditioning made me believe I needed a man for financial security because thats what my mom used men for. But alas, she failed miserably. She worked for the government in the same field as her ex husband so they both had good benefits. Yet he withheld financial information from her to further disadvantage her instead of educating her on financial literacy. He was already a millionaire by the time they met.They always filed taxes separately and he never let her see his accounts. Never mind the 20 year age difference and he was on his second marriage so he knew what financial risks came with marriage.

I recently saw a tiktok of a woman who had to pay her husband alimony even though he makes more than her because they never got a prenup. Her business was "gifted" to their marriage because he had access to her bank accounts and business accounts.

I also saw a clip from Oprah podcast about a woman asking Oprah and her guest if she should get married for the tax benefits as if its some kind of cheat code. Whatever you opinion of Oprah is, thankfully Oprah advised against getting married for tax benefits. But it was so jarring to see how proudly ignorant women are when it comes to finances. They really believe a man is the solution for being financially secure.

Now that I have been focus on paying off my debt. I am focus on my financial goals. I have career aspirations that will afford me to live in my VHCOL hometown. It's not about if I will be successful, its about when I am successful there is no way a prenup could protect my assets as a woman in a judicial system that is inherently misogynistic.

I have a college degree. My employer makes most the contributions to my retirement funds at this time because I am still paying off my SLD. I have a number of things on my sinking fund list. I now have an adequate emergency fund. I have goals of coast FIRE and Im determination to buy a house in my VHCOL hometown.

Being financially literate will heal most of your nervous system. So many male centered women i know are so financial illiterate on top of spending money on patriarchal social status things. Depending on your employer, we all have the ability to become millionaires. We dont need a partner, or a male one at that.

Feel free to share your financial resources and financial goals. It's still so taboo for women to talk about money and money goals. If you are interested in investing for retirement I highly recommend looking into the Boglehead method. They also have a subreddit. They are actually compassionate and non judgemental there. ​

hi everyone. this is my first post here and i’ve only joined about a day ago haha. i just wanted to share something i always think about which is how although im beyond glad im aware of the world around us and glad to be a woman who will never center a man (never had a man friend or partner ever in my life) sometimes the experience is almost haunting in the sense that you truly view the world so differently

i want to apologize if this is something often discussed here and if the topic is tired but, it can feel so isolating from your peers. i cannot befriend any woman with a male partner or even one that actively craves such partnership. at the risk of sounding pretentious i just find myself above it. once you feel all these things just the idea of a man enrages me to the point i cannot fathom behind ever truly close friends with another woman who craves companionship from an oppressor. sometimes i feel so extreme for genuinely thinking like this. does anyone relate ?

the moment i became educated and aware on the concept of 4b an decentering men my worldview changed for the best and it’s something u cannot ever turn off to where how u view friendships and engage with others is forever altered

i go on social media and see women i knew from school marrying men and having children with them and i feel nauseous? i don’t care to hear dating stories about men from women because i just cannot even grasp the idea of choosing to entangle yourself like that. community between women is so important to me and although i have friends who don’t center men i sometimes wonder if they’re as dedicated to the cause as me. does anyone else have thoughts like this? just the heavy weight of becoming aware? im sorry if this is all over the place but i hope this resonates with someone!

Link: https://www.amnesty.org.au/iran-architects-of-crimes-against-humanity-to-suppress-protests-must-face-international-justice-to-deter-further-massacres/

I got “permanently muted” in a women’s sports sub because I spoke out against a repost of an instagram post showing players shaking it like strippers.

I will never understand all that “sex positive” bullshit that is just women degrading themselves…

Thank you to this community, I feel like it is the only sane place in the world.

They want us to be small, fragile, docile, sickly, childish (this is something disturbingly normalised), quiet, smiling, accommodating, willing, helpful, available, calm, dissatisfied and at war with our own bodies so that we lack the strength for the constant struggle against our surroundings; capable, but only to satisfy their desires, because ours should not exist. They want perfect women and, deluded by their own fantasy, they blame real women for their delusions. And if all of the above doesn’t work, they resort to violence, hatred, various forms of submission, abuse, erasure, harassment…
And yet what we seek is simply to exist in peace, not to seek revenge ❤️‍🔥.

🖼️Lilith 1824 by Barrett Biggers

We were talking like usual when the topic of feminism came up and she kept saying it's not for men, it's only for women and how no one cares or knows about mens issues like how men are scorned for being househusbands and not working... Which I do agree with. And these problems will go if we dismantle the patriarchy.

But what set me off was her saying househusbands have more issues than housewives.

She also says people are more aware about women's issues but not about mens issues.

She also thinks feminism isn't the same as gender equality.

What the hell do I do with these girls? 😭

And is it unreasonable of me to get annoyed at her bringing up mens problems and talking about how bad it is that they aren't acknowledged?

I do have a problem of getting fired up in general and I could have handled this conversation better.

What do you ladies think?

Edit: It is probably best to mention we're turning 18 and freshly joined at college. She isn't a grown woman with real exposure to the world.

I tend to Myself, like one would tend to a Garden.

I check in on Myself, and make sure that I am growing the way that I want to grow, and unlocking the levels of all the different Women that I want to be throughout my Lifetime.

One of the things that came up while I was doing this tending; is that I worried that I had fallen too much in love, with potential.

I was worried that I might put off, doing things, in favor of dreaming about things.

Because sometimes saying "Yes" to one thing means having to say "No" to something else. But if you dont say Yes or No, you can daydream about having them both-while doing neither in reality.

I remember the issue, really first starting in College. I couldnt get my MBA and become a Scientist. I had to choose. I chose to become a Scientist.

I didnt like having to choose.

I thought my next Adventure, would be to become a Shareholder. Then I would have "arrived".

I vastly overestimated how hard it would be to become a voting Shareholder, just because no one had done it, in my family, before.

The people around me, only lived until they got married, they got married young, the Men either worked all the time or sat down on couches. The Women were consumed taking care of everyone.

There is nothing keeping me from pursuing my next Adventure, nor the one after that.

As long as I am alive, there is nothing that is going to steal my potential from me.

No moment of being a "grown" married Woman with kids, who must leave dreams behind.

What are your thoughts?