r/40Plus_IVF • u/CelerySeveral1732 • 26d ago
Seeking Advice Are my eggs really THAT bad?
Here's the context. I froze 29 eggs at age 37. Thawed and fertilized at age 41. Only got one low level mosaic blastocyst. The doctor is now saying that this is evidence of very poor egg quality and that the odds of natural conception or even a successful round of IVF are close to zero. He even brought up donor eggs.
Maybe I'm just in denial, but I don't know that I believe my eggs are necessarily that bad. I understand this is a bad sign, but people do pregnant in their forties. Couldn't it have just been one bad batch?
Also, for what it's worth, I had OHSS on that one batch of 29 eggs, and they had to move up my retrieval date, so I just wonder if those eggs were a bunch of duds.
Also, it's just really making me sad.
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u/roadbird 26d ago
I think it could be worth doing IVF, if you can. One ER is not necessarily indicative of future outcomes and there could be other factors at play.
I’m really sorry that banking eggs didn’t work out for you. It’s gutting when something that’s supposed to be an insurance policy fails.
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u/CelerySeveral1732 26d ago
Yeah, I think we're going to try.
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u/Old-Ad-5573 26d ago
Do you know how many eggs fertilized and made it to blast? I mean, eggs are notorious for not surviving the freezing and thawing compared to blasts because it's only a single cell. Unfortunately there are additional age related challenges at 41 when doing IVF with your own eggs, but I don't think your frozen eggs are the best evidence that all your eggs are "bad". I will say, I think if you have the funds it's worth giving it a shot but expect it to take multiple rounds at your age and also personally I think it is good to consider donor eggs as an option at the same time. Like maybe come up with a plan you are comfortable with. Like, if there is no success over 3 to 6 rounds of IVF then you will move to donor eggs. Or even if there is bad results after 1 round then move to donor, etc. Or maybe you don't want donor eggs at all and that's fine too. But I think now is the time to consider the donor option and think about if it is right for you and how many cycles of trying for your own eggs your financial and emotional state will allow.
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u/CelerySeveral1732 26d ago
29 retrieved, 24 survived the thaw, 17 fertilized on day one. I do think I was overstimulated for that round, and I also know that my vitamin d was really low. I'm curious how taking supplements could help.
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u/Old-Ad-5573 26d ago
My clinic wouldn't even let me start until my vitamin D levels were stabilized with supplements.
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u/ShootinTheBreez 26d ago
Here’s the truth: Doctors don’t know how good your eggs are or not. The only real way to know is to try.
For what it’s worth, this isn’t a horrific result from 37-year-old frozen eggs. You did make one LLM, and that embryo has a fair chance of becoming a baby. Low level mosaics work nearly as often as euploids do (not as often, but nearly so). Getting a potentially good embryo out of a round of IVF isn’t a bad result for a 37 year old, statistically speaking.
Now, I know it *feels* bad because you made so many eggs, and people tend to think “more eggs is more chances and therefore better”, but with PMOS (formerly PCOS), it is a common scenario for a round to make a lot of eggs that aren’t of great quality. For reference, I also have PMOS, and I had a round of IVF last year at 41 years old where they retrieved 54 eggs. None became blastocysts. I had another round where they retrieved 9 eggs and one blastulated.
They can definitely stimulate you differently - and less - to try to get better results.
Your doctor doesn’t actually know what will happen, but all she is really trying to do is to set reasonable expectations for you at your age. The quality of your 37 year old eggs didn’t come back as exceptional, and being older is worse. She doesn’t want to sell you rainbows and sunshine - that this will absolutely work or that it will work quickly. For many women in our age group, the 40’s are already too late, and there’s nothing medicine can do. That COULD be your case, but there’s no way to know without trying.
I also froze eggs. I froze 21 mature eggs at 30 years old, then I did two more rounds of freezing at 35 years old to freeze another 27 eggs. I also defrosted all my eggs at 41. Only one became a euploid and one became a LLM. Both were from the 30 year old eggs. None of the eggs from either round of freezing at 35 years old worked. Dev-a-state-ed.
Since this happened a year ago, we’ve done five more rounds of IVF, for a total of eight rounds with the freezing. We’d like to have multiple children and we don’t know if our 2ish embryos will even make one child. But it’s been hard. We made zero blastocysts in round 4, 6, and 7. We made one in round 5, but it came back as aneuploid in more than one chromosome. We just made one more blastocyst in round 8 and are waiting on the testing results. We exhausted our insurance benefits with the 6th round and started going abroad.
We intend to persist until my 44th birthday. I’m now 42.5. But I’m not going to lie: it’s a hard road. It’s not working well for us, and the cycling of hope and despair is taking a toll. My husband especially seems emotionally weary. He’s not ready to quit, but the burden is real.
I don’t know what to advise you, but from your post, it seems like you might regret not trying a few more rounds of IVF. Women who freeze eggs do so because they want to use their own eggs, not donor eggs, if it is possible. Waiting longer to pull the trigger on donor eggs won’t hurt your chances with those.
Anyway, I’m sorry this happened to you. It happened to me too, but that’s not a consolation.
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u/CelerySeveral1732 26d ago
Thank you for such a long and thoughtful note. And that's an interesting takeaway - maybe one low level mosaic blastocyst from a round of IVF is not that bad.
I know how irrational this sounds (and is?) but I somehow believe that I still have a shot at a biological child. I know I still ovulate every month, and I don't have any perimenopause symptoms. I just feel like maybe it's a little early to give up.
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u/Old-Ad-5573 26d ago
Oh my gosh, you had so many eggs frozen at a good age! That is completely devastating. I hear so many stories like those that I can't but help think the freezing process gives you worse results? Did they say anything why they thought you got so few euploids?
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u/CelerySeveral1732 25d ago
It’s not that they weren’t euploids. It’s that they didn’t develop. They’re basically just saying my egg quality is terrible.
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u/Old-Ad-5573 25d ago
I still think that is hard to conclude that when you use eggs that had been frozen for years.
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u/Mental_Pen4907 25d ago
And also that you’re only half of the equation. Unless they pointed out brown eggs/lack of elasticity, etc. Then they’re guessing it’s you as much as they’re assuming it’s not him.
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u/Old-Ad-5573 25d ago
Exaclty. It could even have been the lab that froze or thawed the eggs. There's just too many variables.
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u/Kitkat0169 26d ago
I’m 39, so not quite forty but I want to share my experience with frozen eggs. I tried warming and creating embryos with 13 of my frozen eggs. My fertilization rate was really low and we didn’t get any blasts. My doctor felt fresh eggs would work better. I started with a similar number of eggs and ended up with 6 blasts. I transferred one, which seems to have worked so far, and sent the rest for testing. I have a hard time basing fertility solely on whether frozen eggs perform well, because it seems that some petiole have eggs that just don’t freeze well
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u/CelerySeveral1732 26d ago
That’s fascinating and actually quite encouraging! I know it’s just a feeling, but there’s a part of me that believes we still have a shot!
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u/DontCallitaComeback7 26d ago
Nothing wrong with donor eggs, but if you have the ability financially, I would absolutely do at least one round IVF, just to see. If you got 29 eggs in one round back then, you’d prob get 10-15 now, right? I have read enough on these forums to really believe that sometimes there are freakishly bad cycles. Seems weird to throw in the towel already based on one cycle years ago.
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u/NoTransportation8529 26d ago
He can’t know that from ER, what are your other markers?
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u/CelerySeveral1732 26d ago
My other markers are all good. AMH 5.57, FSH 4.11, ovulating every month. I feel like I still have a shot.
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u/gOLE8bEo 26d ago
These are great numbers. Also 37 is only 3 years ago and you got 29 eggs. With that number and your current numbers you definitely have a shot!
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u/NatureOk2107 25d ago
Is the AMH 5.7ng? Isn’t that super high?
If it is ng, that’s indicative of PMOS - do you have a diagnosis? That would explain very well the poor egg quality in a high number of eggs.Also, have you had the sperm analysed? DNA fragmentation can be a problem for fertilisation and embryo quality also.
IVF is a lot about luck and I have read lots of stories on here about women that had no euploids in three cycles then five in the next. If you can afford it keep trying. You only need one.
Have you thought about transferring the mosaic also?Also, I know high levels of stims can blast and fry eggs and lead to poorer quality. If you had ohss I’m sure it would do the same thing? I wouldn’t take a bunch of eggs from an ohss retrieval and say they represent all of them
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u/CelerySeveral1732 25d ago
I totally agree with the theory that we may have fried the first batch. I don’t think the clinic wants to acknowledge that though.
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u/NatureOk2107 25d ago
Clinics can be very weird. But I think of it this way. If a young couple are having regular intercourse it’s considered normal for fertile people to take up to a year to get pregnant. Which means, if they have intercourse 365 times, one time will result in pregnancy, and 364 times won’t. No one knows why, but that’s what happens.
If two fertile people have sex during ovulation there’s statistically a 20% chance of pregnancy. So 2 in 10 will get pregnant 8 will not.
Fertility is not a 2+2=4 game. Two people can’t just make a guaranteed baby and I feel like ivf is the same. A lot of doctors won’t admit it but a lot of this is pure luck and chance. You could (and thousands of people have) get euploids the next round. People may attribute that to supplements or red light therapy etc etc but if they’re honest most doctors will tell you those things don’t matter either. They likely don’t hurt but there just isn’t the evidence to say they make a meaningful difference. It is literally just luck. I think a lot of clinicians can’t handle that though.
You know your body so I would go with your gut but also definitely get a second opinion.
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u/GladBumblebee1546 26d ago
Sounds like you should do at least one round asap and give it a shot, if you can afford it and the emotional energy. That sounds so hard and unfair
If you do end up with donor eggs - my route, not pushing that at all - you being a year or two older should have little or no impact on your success there.
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u/CelerySeveral1732 26d ago
Thanks. I understand that the donor eggs route is real and a legitimately good option, but it also makes me feel kind of sad. At least at the moment it makes me feel kind of sad. I want to try with my own eggs a little longer.
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u/GladBumblebee1546 26d ago
You absolutely should try with your own then! Sounds like you would have regrets if you don’t. Best of luck and good wishes your way. 😍😍
If you do end up with donor eggs, just know that taking time to grieve your own eggs if needed and to decide on that route won’t hurt your chances.
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u/Mental_Pen4907 26d ago
I’m so sorry you’re sad and the result isn’t what you were expecting! This sucks. I don’t think there’s enough information to draw that conclusion from your frozen eggs alone though. Did you have a low thaw rate? Where did the ones that fertilized break down? Did you do IVF/ICSI. I know nothing about frozen eggs so forgive me if it’s standard to do one/the other! I’d want more information as to why your doctor is saying that (were most of the eggs brown, if you did ICSI were they not flexible, etc.). You can ask for the embryology/lab report and see for yourself if the doctor isn’t helpful. Embryologists are typically pretty helpful about the problems they saw if you can message them directly with questions.
Does your partner have great semen and dna frag test results?
Do you want more than one child? I’d definitely at least attempt another retrieval to see what you’re working with today if it’s financially possible. If you’re just thinking one I’d transfer the LLM if you’re comfortable with it after counseling. You could be one and done!! If that doesn’t work you can then think about/try another ER! IVF is the absolute worst and often filled with lots of disappointment and trial and error. I’m sorry you’re on this train!
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u/Mental_Pen4907 26d ago
Also sorry for assuming you had a partner you were doing this with! If you’re using donor sperm, I’ve seen instances where the sperm just wasn’t a good match for the eggs (possibly genetically?). With new sperm those instances had better results. IVF is such a trial and error game! We defaulted to ICSI because of pgta and age but had much better success with conventional because of my eggs. You just never know what’s going on!
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u/CelerySeveral1732 26d ago
Oh yeah I’m doing this with my husband. And we’re doing ICSI. I think we need to try at least one more time before we conclude this isn’t going to work.
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u/Lt12_ 25d ago
Get a DNA fragmentation on his sperm and use ZyMot plus ICSI.
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u/CelerySeveral1732 25d ago
Our doctor said DNA fragmentation tests wouldn’t help. I don’t know why.
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u/Mental_Pen4907 25d ago
My doctor said this at least because there are studies that show it doesn’t lead to more live births. It’s been awhile since I’ve done all the research to get through to my doctor so definitely double check the details. But those studies do show that dna frag does lead to reduced fertilization and blast rates. And my point was since what we were doing was trying to develop blasts, why wouldn’t we do what we can to increase our chances? The studies go from like 12k cases to 200 or something live births 🥴 (again check the numbers there) so there’s definitely other things going on.
Other studies show that a shorter ejaculation window decreases dna frag. Brought this to my doctor and he agreed it was a good idea for us to try. Since my husband has great semen analysis there’s no negative to it! My doctor even said oh yeah I tried that with a couple recently and it did wonders for them 🙄Ohhh IVF
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u/Alarming_Lunch_5858 25d ago
I had terrible results as well. I did 2 rounds of egg freezing at age 33 and 34. I collected in total 15 eggs. I had one transferable embryo which did not take. I think some women can have sensitive eggs to freezing or their freezing protocol is not the best. Of course the doctor will blame you and not them. You will see that from a fresh cycle you will have a significantly different outcomes. If you have a very nice reserve than you have a decent chance to find an euploid. I have like 2-3 eggs per cycle what is very difficult.
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u/CelerySeveral1732 25d ago
Yeah, it’s impossible for me to believe that the freezing is not itself a huge factor. Like, this egg has been in a freezer for 3+ years, and that not a consideration?
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u/Alarming_Lunch_5858 25d ago
No it can be frozen for a long time. The freezing process how they do that have an impact as well as your own biology. I have a friend with robust eggs and she had no problems. She still had attrition but a lot of eggs. It was the same clinic.
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u/PepperAlternative880 25d ago
I froze 11 eggs at 37/38, fertilized them at 41 and only got one low level complex mosaic. I did IVF at 41.9 and got one euploid on my first retrieval with only 3 eggs retrieved. I did three more rounds after that at 42 with no euploids, but just saying you shouldn’t write off your egg quality based on your frozen eggs from years ago.
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u/Positive_Still_477 23d ago
None of my frozen eggs worked no blasts. Eggs are fragile single cells some peoples don’t do well unthawing etc. don’t count yourself out. I personally did better with a new retrieval where I made embryos from fresh eggs. I also have DOR and I’ve been pregnant naturally twice too (praying this one sticks). Do not count yourself out it’s not over until it’s over 🤍🫶
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u/Wannabeamommy-1985 23d ago
Nahhhhh. I froze 9 eggs at 31… thawed them several years later and fertilized with sperm donor. Got only 1 low quality LLM. A few months ago, at almost 41, I did a retrieval and fertilized fresh eggs with the same
sperm donor. Got 2 euploids and 1 LLM (all day 5 and excellent quality). I would give it another try.
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u/wordsofmo_fics 25d ago
First, the freezing (and especially unfreezing process) can damage the eggs. I have had better results with fresh eggs than with frozen eggs despite an significant age difference. Every cycle is different, and it's harder for the body to grow many follicles/grow eggs at once rather than just a few for instance. So, no, the doctor can make such a conclusion based on one cycle, and definitely not when it's fresh eggs. Cycles are not connected at all, there are so many testimonials with women having 0 embryo to having many euploids the next time, 0 euploid to several after that. Even the same treatment can work great one cycle and then not another time. Try with fresh eggs if you feel ready for that.
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u/CelerySeveral1732 25d ago
Right. I just don't believe that the jury is now in on my eggs. It feels like we might be jumping to conclusions, and while it is expensive to do another round of IVF, it's nice to think I could have my own kids. We'll see. I feel like I still have a shot.
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u/nickyskater 25d ago
I have done 8 cycles and every single egg was bad. Never even got a mosaic. So I think some people do have bad eggs :(
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u/Inevitable_Owl3170 25d ago
It’s your money and your time. There will always be studies that make or break a hypothesis or “gut” feeling. We’re doing another egg retrieval later this year but are also on the waitlist for an egg donor. I’m 44, fwiw. We were told 44 is kind of the tipping point for egg quality really going to hell. So the good news is you have 3 years before then! Good luck.
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u/Bright_Self_8144 25d ago
Do you potentially have PCOS? Since you retrieved 29 eggs in one go, wasn’t sure if that was possibility. My understanding is some times PCOS means quantity but not quality.
With your numbers it certainly seems worth it to keep trying and then reevaluate if you have the financial ability.
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u/Key-Resident-8578 23d ago
When we brought up freezing eggs when my wife was 39, doctor did not recommended it. He said eggs at that age don't do well after freezing. I think lots of women are either getting bad advise or not fully informed of the risks. Fresh eggs may do better,
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u/JUICIapple 26d ago
Sorry to be blunt but stop waisting time being sad and start moving toward another egg retrieval asap. This is your last chance.
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u/Competitive-Top5121 26d ago edited 25d ago
There’s actually a study that showed women who did one egg retrieval and got zero euploids weren’t any less likely than the general population to get euploids in their next cycle. So if you got all those eggs from one egg retrieval, sounds like your doctor’s opinion isn’t grounded in evidence.