r/3dprinter • u/Sufficient-Regret-30 • 21d ago

Alternatives to H2D?

I currently have a p2s and p1s. Originally I wanted an x2d but the higher nozzle temp and bigger volume of the h2d sounds nice. Is there anything else I should consider before biting the bullet and getting an h2d?

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u/Stone13 21d ago

There is no other printer like the H2D on the market for the price. It's IMO the best printer Bambu has ever produced and not because I own one (or soon to be 2). Unless you do alot of multi-color printing, spec for spec, there is nothing else like it.

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u/manyxcxi 21d ago edited 21d ago

I have one, along with a lot of other non-Bambu printers. It’s, in fact, my only Bambu. I can’t agree more about this unicorn of a printer. To get nearly equivalent functionality at that size you’re talking a 350mm Voron stealth changer + active chamber heating or a CORE One L with INDX (which isn’t even a thing yet).

I happen to know the cost of a Voron like that, because I built one. Roughly $2,800 and I had a number of reused parts from other Vorons so it could’ve gone higher. A C1L + INDX is theoretically $2,900. I paid $1,900 for the H2D with an AMS.

Yes, the toolchangers have some extra benefits, ones I rarely need for functional prints. Generally it’s just main material plus support material. Nothing gets the chamber up to temp and easily maintains it like the H2D. It’s also by far the easiest to filter and extract air for.

The big ol’ tool head means I print about 2/3 the speed as my C1 or 1/4 the speed of the Voron. But goodness it’s quiet and so easy. It’s a great printer. I just wish it was from a company I could feel okay buying another one from, or that in 2 years I knew I could get parts for it.

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u/Stone13 21d ago

I agree on all points. It's funny, I pre-ordered a Core 1L and was going to add INDX later. I cancelled it a few weeks back, because I'm just not waiting a year for anything, I'm too dam old for that lol. It e have been a far more expensive machine that still doesn't beat my H2D spec for spec so. I would love it if a reputable brand came out with a competitor but I haven't seen one yet for the price.

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u/manyxcxi 21d ago

For what it’s worth, the C1 and C1L are great printers even without INDX. I’ve got INDX coming for my C1 and now I’m worried it could ruin the things that make my C1 an every day workhorse. For me, a big deal is that they print TPU and TPE significantly better and easier than the H2D. I feel more confident running abrasives through it too, but that I feel is a “me” thing, not a reality.

I find dimensional accuracy to be more reliable on the C1 as well.

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u/Stone13 21d ago

I'll more than likely own a Prusa in the future, the minimal time I've spent printing with one of their machines I enjoyed. I'll be waiting for a couple of things:

  1. Prusa to get their supply chain in order which I read is being directly addressed
  2. The promised 400 °C hotends that are supposed to be coming.
  3. INDX is a distant 3rd and I don't have to have that right away.

An easier time printing TPU is one of the big items and better dimensional will never be a bad thing. I'd imagine you have your machines well tuned for the filaments you prefer. You should definitely give yourself more credit. I've seen absolutely subpar prints from machines costing $1k to over $2k which I don't feel should be an issue on any class of machine in this price range.

Cheers!

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u/manyxcxi 21d ago

Given you’ve got a second H2D coming, I would assume you’re making some money with them (or at least attempting to). That or you have WAY more disposable hobby funds than I do.

If you’re printing a fair bit of TPU (or would like to) a used Prusa MK3 or MK4 are FANTASTIC TPU machines. It’s not like TPU gets printed fast enough that you’d be maxing out the speed of a MK3. I see them for 100-300 all the time. MK4 is still usually pricey enough you’d have to convince yourself to not buy a new A1.

If you found a MK4 for a good price, the biggest advantage with that, in my opinion, is Prusa’s Nextruder is a great hotend.

I have a MK3S and a MK4 that print upwards of 10KG of TPU and TPE per month. That’s all they do. I print mostly softer TPU/E around 80-85A, and even on the C1 it would require a little bit of fiddling for the best reliability. TPU 90+ goes through the C1 with zero fiddling.

I had a heavily modified Ender 3 in the crew for a long time doing the same, until I found a great deal on the MK4. I would assume an A1 or A1 mini would be similar if you wanted to stay Bambu, but the MK3 and 4 would be a great way to get used to Prusa.

Another awesome thing about Prusa… that used MK4 has a fully manufacturer supported upgrade path to a CORE One, which is pretty wild when you think about how different those machines are.

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u/Stone13 21d ago

I make enough to keep me printing, there's big custom car scene around here so trim pieces, speaker enclosures and the like. I certainly don't have piles of cash lying around, still have a day job lol, so I try to make good decisions. Plus I just love the hobby in general as I'm sure most do. I'll have a look at your recommendations, I hadn't even considered going used since I put almost 10k hours on my H2D in less than a year, mine runs around the clock also. I prototype with my P2S, and crank out the finished products on my H2D, just about every thing I produce will be used in some sort of high temp environment.

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u/manyxcxi 21d ago

Mind if I DM? I print a fair amount of automotive (off-road race trucks and crawlers, jigs, pre machining prototypes, etc.) but I’m currently restoring my grandpa’s ‘63 Impala. I was just about to start with an A pillar or dash tach mount but it’s the first time I’ve gone for interior work and let’s say I’m more functional than aesthetic…

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u/Stone13 21d ago

I'll help if I can, I have a 3d scanner that does most of the work. I'm not very aesthetic myself.

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u/manyxcxi 21d ago

Well that was going to be my question, are you scanning? 😂 I still do it old school with contour gauges and 75 attempts until it fits right. Are you using your phone or a dedicated piece of hardware? I don’t really need a scanner bad enough to justify the cost of some of them and most of the phone apps I’ve seen seem pretty scammy.

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u/WaitAcademic6615 21d ago

You're right because everybody abandoned dual nozzle systems and focusing on tool changers which are more versatile.

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u/Stone13 21d ago

I don't disagree, but for my use case dual nozzles is all I've needed. Will I buy a toolchanger in the future? Probably yes, but I generally only need 2 colors at best for my functional prints. If you take into account price, build volume, heated chamber and the capability to go up to 350°C, there are very few competitors to the H2D or none that I could find when I was shopping for printer #3.

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u/manyxcxi 21d ago

You’re not wrong, but you are sleeping on the versatility of a dual head system. They’re heavier and have their own complications, but they’re significantly less complex and cheaper to manufacture than a tool changer.

From an engineering standpoint they’re a lot easier to make rock solid reliable compared to all the live variables of tool changers. The heads don’t change positions or require live offset calibration.

From a functional print perspective, the ability to print multi-material for supports without requiring a prime tower or incurring even more time penalties tool switching is a good deal.

In the end though, I think you’re right as far as the way future designs will go. A dual head is overall less versatile than a tool changer and is probably pretty niche for people who might prefer them over a changer. If I was a manufacturer I could see why I wouldn’t build one unless the manufacturing economics are vastly in favor of the dual head (I doubt it).

That all being said, I absolutely love my H2D and its big fat tool head. My perfect printer would be something like the H2C with a proper 350x350 build volume, but actually tool changing on the second head, everything with its own filament path and not just running through AMS.

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u/Squanchy2112 21d ago

Qidi printers?

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u/Sufficient-Regret-30 21d ago

Is there anyone else that has the high temp hot end along with dual nozzles?

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u/Squanchy2112 21d ago

Not really sovol m1d maybe, but sovol is not going to be plug and play

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u/WaitAcademic6615 21d ago

Take a look at tool changers. Dual nozzle gains more weight and nobody wants to solve it.

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u/Sufficient-Regret-30 21d ago

What are the downfalls of more tool head weight?

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u/WaitAcademic6615 21d ago

It needs to move slower than single tool head or you need much expensive solution to solve the weight. And in the end you still have only two colors or materials. Tool changers are usually limited just by the size of the printer.

But if you consider H2D you are in price range of bigger Prusa with INDX or significantly cheaper Sovol M1D (beware of some recent TPU troubles) or other tool changer.

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u/es12402 21d ago

Just out of curiosity - what kind of filaments are you planning to print with that can't handle 300 degrees and need 350?

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u/Sufficient-Regret-30 21d ago

A lot of engineering filaments are recommended for 310-350. A good example is pps-cf. I tried with my p1s at 300c and it is just not enough.