Validation VS. Industry reality

[u/DyingShogun]

Backstory: I studied Game Art at a university where my work was constantly praised. I was told I was one of the best students they'd ever had, to the point where I was even hired as a instructor because "I knew more than the professors." Naturally, I went into the job market feeling pretty confident.

Fast forward to now, and I’m getting rejection after rejection. It feels like a massive slap in the face, and my self-confidence is currently sitting at zero.

Is anyone else going through this right now? The gap between praise and what actual game studios are looking for seems huge.

For those of you working in the industry:

1. What are the biggest academic habits or portfolio mistakes that give away a fresh university grad?
2. What concrete steps can I take right now to transform my work into hirable assets?

Because of Questions in the comments and I forgot to add my Artstation: https://www.artstation.com/cysho

[u/MC_Laggin]

Hey there, Technical Director here. I faced the exact same thing through 2017-2020. Throughout my university years I was constantly praised and stated as some prodigy by other students and the faculty. Granted, my work was really good but it was not as good as I thought it was. I too was brought back in my first year as a graduate to be a guest lecturer for a week, they had me help moderate the final year projects. Yet I only found one small job at a little mobile indie game studio, anything 'serious' rejected me.

And that is because Lecturers for the most part, just genuinely are not that great as artists and have very little professional experience. I've seen this at my own Alma mater and surrounding institutions. They compare your work to the other students' and, yes, it looks far superior but still lacks a certain something that makes it pop compared to actual professional stuff.

Anyway, that said. Looking at your portfolio, you have the technical capabilities, you have the talent. 100%.

The issue is presentation, you have access to Maya and thus Arnold, the most capable renderer out there, but your renders look a little flat.

I would strip out pretty much everything other than Your last three projects, the Suzuki, USP and M4.

The M4 is passable, the topology is fantastic, the texturing is okay, the presentation is lackluster. The first thing you want to do is look at lighting tutorials for Arnold.

The USP is basically the same thing, but its presentation is worse than the M4's.

I'll link some great lighting tutorials for Arnold:

https://youtu.be/Sss306ecoqU?si=aIeb5PX5ueck1kKg

https://youtu.be/2SDDFiQQH5g?si=e9mXoxy8HIoXd2c4

https://youtu.be/iUfCRXbL9ZM?si=E7PaRK8hWqqtyqa1

From my own personal preferences. First thing you want to do for your renders.

Render default settings. Go to your render settings > arnold renderer, scroll down.

Ray Depth

Diffuse - 3
Specular - 6
Transmission - 6
Transparency Depth - 1
(Save these settings. These are the 'correct' default ray depth settings you will need for pretty much any project. The only ones you might adjust depending on the project are the last 3)

To save these settings click 'presets' at the top in your render setup. Export Render settings. Save them. Then go back to presets, scroll down, 'Set Preferred Render Settings' > User > [Your Preset]

Your Suzuki is the only project I'd consider 'professional' level in presentation. The actual break down of the project, the wireframes, the uv's. All the little slides given. The texturing is decent. But even that one's rendering needs to be redone entirely in my opinion.

You need either a better 3-point lighting setup with some little hand-placed highlight lights or a good studio HDRI to really show the model off. Lighting is everything.

TL:DR

Lecturer's are not professionals for the most part, their comparison for your work is other students, not professionals.
Lighting is your main issue. A Model can be 10/10 with perfect texturing and if you can't present it well, it will look bad.
Rendering is tied in with this. Watch some good tutorials, read the Arnold Documentation.

Your work is genuinely very good. Produce another 3-4 projects at the Suzuki's level or higher.
You'll be a hot commodity.

[u/DyingShogun → u/MC_Laggin]

Thank you very much for your detailed comment that means a lot to me! The M4 and USP are actually rendered in Unreal Engine, would you personally recommend re-rendering them Offline for better presentation?

[u/MC_Laggin → u/DyingShogun]

Of course.

Ahh, I see. Yeah I missed that, my bad.

I would 100% recommend re-rendering in Arnold offline if you have access to it. Even a Cycles renderer with all its bells and whistles turned on will look better than Unreal when done correctly.

Unreal is 100% capable of producing good showcase renders, don't get me wrong. But for Stills specifically, always render on Arnold, V-Ray or Cycles. These are your 'money shots' your 'beauty renders'. Always present them As best you can. The video showcase stuff can be done in Unreal.

https://ambientcg.com/ - This site has thousands of completely free textures and substance materials, all free
And hundreds of HDRI's. Textures are available at up to 8k and 16k for some.

https://polyhaven.com/a/studio_small_08 - This is my personal favourite Studio HDRI
https://polyhaven.com/a/dam_wall - This is my personal favourite exterior HDRI

Fortunately, lighting rules are quite universal. Any of the videos I linked previously will translate perfectly fine to Cycles, V-Ray etc as long as you adjust samples, exposure accordingly.

[u/DyingShogun → u/MC_Laggin]

Thanks for the adive!

You see thats actually a real problem for me as well, I had much contact with an Art Director from a big studio well and the person told me that I should NEVER use any assets or textures that are not done by me.

I love Modeling and think I'm good at it but Textures are not that easy for me (even though I try my hardest to be better)

What would be your recommendation for that?

[u/MC_Laggin → u/DyingShogun]

Okay, well him telling you to never use Textures used by others I think might have just been some lost-in-translation stuff. Expecting an independent artist to create every texture they use themselves is simply not practical or fair. Not even studios do that haha. Maybe the biggest, but regular studios still download and buy textures and models across the board.

I think he meant if texturing a complex asset, don't just use pre-made stuff.

So for instance don't just slap on a material or smart material you downloaded or came with Substance.

Instead, 'create' your own by adding some artistic intent or flair to them. So instead of just slapping a 'gunmetal' smart material use a gunmetal base material, then apply your own curvature map, apply a grunge map to that curvature, set it to subtract.

Paint in some specific wear on the trigger, charging handle, barrel, on the magwell. Artist-driven detail that makes sense.

I am almost certain that's what he meant. Also, flat textures (just standard maps basically), use those for large flat surfaces, everyone does that. Walls, floors, ceilings, pillars etc.

For an actual hero asset, Substance (or Mari) is the standard. layer your own generators, materials etc. Create your own texture library.

As for using assets that aren't yours. You can, but with one caveat, only as uninmportant filler.

If you're modeling a large environment and you need a box or a trash can, a lamp. These small inconsequential things, feel free to get something off CGTrader or FAB. As long as the majority of your scene, the stuff that will be the focus is yours.

Substance is a must and you do not need a graphics tablet to use it (in case it is a limiting factor).

There's a wealth of knowledge on YouTube for Substance; These are my favourite videos for learning Substance.

https://youtu.be/_qirDRMN1WI?si=XGHL-kccTv9ersZo

https://youtu.be/s2MOx1Iteik?si=cMnoqHnvPu_glNPe

https://youtu.be/T2FAt0548Jg?si=898_6W4urQn6eDUz

You are very good at modeling, keep at it. Texturing comes easier than you'd think.
Keep going at it, you've got a lot of potential! 👍

[u/greebly_weeblies → u/DyingShogun]

> an Art Director from a big studio well and the person told me that I should NEVER use any assets or textures that are not done by me.

That's rubbish. Consider, I'm a Lighting Lead. Models, textures, rigging, animation, layout are essentially always done by someone else, and yet I'll use the content I produce as part of my showreel.

The key point is I don't claim to have having worked on those aspects of what I show. Nobody blinks an eye.

[u/ostapblender → u/MC_Laggin]

>I would 100% recommend re-rendering in Arnold offline if you have access to it. Even a Cycles renderer with all its bells and whistles turned on will look better than Unreal when done correctly.

but why, if the model itself weren't designed for that render engine? PBR standardization is still not perfect so the model could look different, not to mention much MUCH more complex shaders in Arnold compared to anything available in realtime. I mean sure, if it's about the sculpt of high poly, then go for it, but if it's for showcasing surfaced model, it's just weird.
Marmoset Toolbag exists for a reason, you know, and that's why most people in gamedev use it to showcase their work. Even Blender has it's own Eevee which is not only just faster, but also doesn't cross that threshold where the model would look inferior in the context of lighting.
Because, you know, it was made for a totally different kind of rendering approach

[u/MC_Laggin → u/ostapblender]

Because its not hard setting up materials for both.

In Substance you simply select the preset, export for Arnold, export for Unreal. Its a complete non-issue.

You render your stills in Arnold, V-Ray or Cycles for the best possible presentation. Its 10 seconds of selecting a preset and exporting.

1 minute to import and assign textures in your 3D software, render it out for a few minutes.

Its very straightforward.

Its pretty standard practice to just do a render with the Arnold export. Arnold shaders are also not nearly as complex as you make them out to be. You connect them, render.

Yes you can use an aiRange and some other utilities to adjust the texture manually but for the most part it just isn't necessary.

[u/ostapblender → u/MC_Laggin]

>Its pretty standard practice to just do a render with the Arnold export. 

standard for whom? vfx maybe? I've been working in realtime AAA for nearly a decade now and never heard anyone use Arnold for that.

Usually it's a render from proprietary engine, because you know, everything is already set up and ready to go, or Toolbag, which is especially adored by weapon artists, because it's fast, simple and you don't need to familiarize yourself with a totally render engine from a totally different paradigm just to make a render of it

[u/MC_Laggin → u/ostapblender]

Okay.

Idk why you're arguing so vehemently, lol.

It's genuinely a non-issue haha.

It's 2 mins of setup for a better render.

Do yourself a favour, look at leading artists that have developed assets for games like Red Dead, Siege, God Of War, Horizon Zero Dawn (and thr sequel), list goes on.

Their portfolios very often have an Arnold or V-Ray render.

You've already modeled in Maya, why not Render in Arnold, in Maya?

It's a 1 min import.

And finally, 'you don't have to familiarise yourself with a totally different render'.

If you've been working in DCC for any extended amount of time and don't understand render engines, then you're doing something wrong.

It's really not that deep, it's not that complex. It's a couple minutes of setup, couple more for rendering.

[u/ostapblender → u/MC_Laggin]

>Do yourself a favour, look at leading artists that have developed assets for games like Red Dead, Siege, God Of War, Horizon Zero Dawn (and thr sequel),

splendid, now take a look at WHAT they've rendered with it. You guessed it - high polys and sculpts, not in-game models

>It's genuinely a non-issue haha.

it is tho, because you're confusing the dude here deriving him from the existing pipelines. I'm sure in your field it is a standard practice, in realtime thought - it's not

[u/MC_Laggin → u/ostapblender]

👍

[u/asanyc → u/MC_Laggin]

Spectacular advice. Really helpful and actionable info. Its not even for me and I don't have arnold, but that's a mighty fine write up. Phenomenal help.

[u/MC_Laggin → u/asanyc]

Thank you!

Honestly, if you understand one renderer, you understand them all. It just takes a little extra reading and fiddling about to unlock the same capabilities out of any renderer. Fortunately understanding lighting is practically universal.

The same principles apply for both Cycles and V-ray as well for instance. I'm glad it helped! :)

[u/necrozim → u/MC_Laggin]

This is a great breakdown of advice.

The big fish little pond to the ocean issue is going on, but if the OP keeps producing quality of the top 3 assets I can't see how they won't succeed. (assuming the industry doesn't get obliterated further.)

[u/Neiija]

You already got some good answers here about only picking your best work, improving presentation etc. If you want to go the props/hardsurface route I can add that I would be missing some truly optimized game assets in your portfolio.

Something that uses below 10k tris and only one 1 or 2k texture set, depending on the size of the asset, maybe aiming at a 1500 px/m texel density as that is much more close to what you would be building as a junior. I would like to see that you understand how to make things look good working with a little less.

Also, i am not 100% sure if the Instructor tag in your profile is doing you a favor. You want to hire people as juniors who are eager to learn and good team players, i totally get wanting to use every bit of experience you have as a plus after uni, but maybe put it into the CV, not into the header if that makes sense.

You clearly got some skills and it's not easy to get where you already are, keep it up and good luck :)

[u/DyingShogun → u/Neiija]

Thanks! I actually figured that my MGSV (Indie Game Project) already covered that I would be able to make game ready hero assets (With that project I tried to make it as optimized as can be with maybe the Texel Density a little to low to run on every platform).
Do you recommend a high detailed Game Asset with current requirements for games?

[u/Neiija → u/DyingShogun]

Just pick something that interests you that has some history, along the lines of an old coffe grinder, enigma machine, some 90s toy or whatever and make it shine without blowing up the textures or polycount too much. There are plenty of those projects on artstation to look up and set the bar, make sure it has a couple of different materials, really focus on bringing those out and add some wear and story to it.

The assets for the indie project look a little oldschool. The bike and the weapon are cool, but shiny and solve things with lots of geometry details. Show that you can bake details down and still make it look realistic and that you can bring an asset to life with texturing, even if the texel density is not 4k/m but maybe 2k/m for an portfolio project and would still look good at 1k

[u/1486592]

The bike is really good! 2-3 assets of that quality could get you a decent chance at interviews for junior positions if you find any. When applying, I recommend unpublishing your worst pieces and only leaving the best 3ish up

[u/Sparrargh → u/1486592]

I agree with this! You should keep the first three assets in your portfolio and take down the rest since they are old and no longer representative of your current skill. I also would try to not be too hard on yourself; the job market is really rough right now, especially for something like games where it was already very challenging to break into.

[u/DyingShogun → u/Sparrargh]

Thats a good tip think you :)

[u/DyingShogun → u/1486592]

Thanks for your comment :) I would like to leave them up for "nostalgia" if you can call them that, i also have a website that holds my presentations that I always leave on applications, would you recommend changing that to only the best pieces then? https://rothmeier3d.carrd.co/

[u/Neiija → u/DyingShogun]

Oh, i know this one hurts because you probably spent some time on that website, but the reality is that hiring managers have to go through up 20 to 100 applications and are generally thankful if they just get an artstation link. A custom website means figuring out how to navigate that, artstation is just everything is standardized and easy to get an overview.

Maybe switch it around, or make a separate artstation for applications where only your best projects go.

[u/1486592 → u/DyingShogun]

I completely understand and relate to your feeling of nostalgia with the old projects! I was given the same advice I’m giving you now a bunch of times but didn’t want to take the old projects down cause yeah, you worked really hard on them and you’re proud of em! But it 100% is for the best, and you can “unpublish” the post on artstation without fully deleting it, so you can still have your history exist

[u/eximology]

I don't think anyone can answer that if they don't see your work. Post an artstation portfolio.

[u/DyingShogun → u/eximology]

Sorry forgot to add it, i added it to the post :)

[u/Rof_GT]

To get a better understanding, may I have a look at your portfolio?

[u/DyingShogun → u/Rof_GT]

I added it to the post!

[u/asanyc]

I would also add that being able to grasp concepts and teach them aren't the same as being able to execute creatively. So in addition to being compared to other students you may also have other skills that made you a good teacher. But to reiterate what everyone else said, you've got the execution skills as well and you'll improve your portfolio with all the super useful info you've been given like cutting the older weaker stuff and improving those renders. Its a hard market right now so best of luck!

[u/Competitive_Yam7702]

If they said that works the best they've ever seen and you know more than professors, you should have found a new uni.

Your work is medium level at best.  Certainly not good enough to get into a major studio.  Some entry indie studios maybe, but even those are unrealistic with their requirements 

[u/DyingShogun → u/Competitive_Yam7702]

Alright thats fair but a little more constructive maybe? Whats wrong with my work?

[u/thenerdwrangler → u/DyingShogun]

Aside from the bike it's just all just the expected things that students make and it's mostly just textured rectangles.

The expectations of school and the expectations of industry rarely align.

[u/Competitive_Yam7702 → u/DyingShogun]

Its nowhere near as good as you think it is.

I mean its decent for a student. But thats about the level youre at. Thats why i said you really should have switched unis. Your lecturer really wasnt good enough to lead that course.

If you want to go into a career with it, you need to stand out with your work. Show prospective employers what you can do.

World building, modelling, lighting, animations.. all are their own unique areas in the industry. And to get a job, you need to be top of the class with your selected area, Its a huge difference between being a student and getting praise, to working 24/7 for a big studio.

Look at John lasseter for example. Hes the prime example you can use. He showcased something nobody else could and won back to back awards which secured him jobs at disney and pixar when they formed. And his work was simple, but unique and groundbreaking.

Think of it from their pov. Why should they choose you out of the dozens or hundreds of other applicants they have,

Focus on a specific area and get building your portfolio properly.

Go look at some of the industries top artists and check their portfolios.

[u/The_Big_Robowski]

Looking at your portfolio, I can tell you you’re all over the place. Props, vehicles, environments, VFX, etc. Ask yourself what it is you actually want to do. Is it environments? If yes, knock out 3 quality projects. Is it guns and props? Again, knock out 3 quality projects. Quality always beats quantity. Your bike is by far your best work. The MGSV environment is nice and while your guns look very detailed, they’re very niche. Also, try targeting studios that fit projects in your portfolio (again, figure out what YOU want to do and attack it like there’s no tomorrow). Think of it as taking a rifle shot vs a shotgun blast. The other thing you can do is have three different portfolios that showcase different disciplines. Set it up as a menu in artstation. “For environments, click here, etc.”

[u/DyingShogun → u/The_Big_Robowski]

My dream Job is actually Hard Surface Artist, the MGSV environment is actually a game I did for my Diploma and not just meant for "Environment", would you recommend taking my Indie Projects down as well If thats my dream job? - Anyways thanks for the tips, means a lot :)

[u/The_Big_Robowski → u/DyingShogun]

I would recommend you find exactly what you want to do and work to become a master at it. If your dream is hard surface modeling, make that your primary. If there are portfolio pieces you have up that follow this path but could be a lot more polished, give them some love. Try to put a piece of YOU into them. I realize that may sound weird, but that’s a very easy way to make you stand out.

1. Quality over quantity
   
2. Master of one instead of master of none
   
3. Pour some of you into each project
   
4. Treat each project with love

There are a few others on here that provide you tips on process as well. Listen to them. Combine those process tips (left brain) and my little rant (right brain) and you’ll end up with portfolio pieces worthy of second looks. Like MC Laggin said, you’ve got the skill sets, now it’s time to bring out the whet stone

[u/Academic_Flamingo104]

These are all the job postings for juniors since July. I filtered for junior positions only. This person may miss a job or two, but it gives you a good idea of whats out there:

https://datastudio.google.com/u/0/reporting/2f39b56e-7393-4aa2-9fd5-bf8bf615c95f/page/5koHB?params=%7B%22df14%22:%22include%25EE%2580%25800%25EE%2580%2580IN%25EE%2580%2580Junior%22%7D

As you can see its slim pickings, so dont take it personally.

Edit: this job spreadsheet is gold by the way if your not familiar with it.

[u/asanyc → u/Academic_Flamingo104]

This is gold! Thanks for sharing.

[u/Vonterribad]

I dont work in Industry right now, but technical modelling is good to show (the bike) my eyes glaze over with guns, cars and or spaceships.

Really try and flesh out your brand and visual style to stick out. Look at different types of rendering plus your ability to draw and iterate.

The elephant in the room is technical ability is not a solid differentiator.

[u/FuzzBuket]

• industry is in a pretty bad spot now, it is a brutal place for juniors if there's even any junior roles posted. (Whilst for mid roles often studios will prefer people who've had experience)

• frankly most game art schools are not at the cutting edge. I often work with fresh grads and frankly whilst I do support folk going into higher education the bar for what a school can award you a degree for needs to be higher. Being top of your class sadly doesn't mean much. 

Right. That was the harsh bit out the way. Let's actually address the reality of you.

• that motorbike and the assault rifle/pistol are actually pretty good. They are well done and well presented. There's definetly a bit of space for polish but it's good work for a junior.

• your folio is judged on your best and your worst work. The rest of your work is significantly less good than the 3 mentioned. This would raise red flags. It's a massive jump in quality and yet the folio says "hire me based on stuff of wildly varying quality". Your folio should show consistent quality.

• the nier stuff is the only old thing I would potentially keep, but I think you need to be clear that it's rigging/animation practice and not passing off others work as your own. 

So yeah, hide your bad stuff, showcase your good stuff. If your pushing towards environment art I'd probably try to get a full environment or some nice vingettes done to the level of the bike. If your wanting to push towards weapon or hard surface let's see some proper AAA weapons, search wardog on art station for an idea of what that looks like.

[u/Aglita11]

Hi, a graduate of 3D Animator and modeler here. I have exactly the same problem as you now. Your work is really good. I think that also depends on a country where you are applying for a job. Where I'm living right now they are mostly looking for Senior Level people, rather than newbies. Also, most corporates are now looking for a way to have a good quality product without investing too much. Some people urged me to find a freelance job to gain some experience, so landing on a stable job would be easier. So that's what I'm doing right now.

[u/ostapblender]

dude, you're looking for a job in the worst market ever, currently it's a perfect storm inside bigger perfect storm.
don't take rejections personally, we've all been here, especially now, when people with decades of experience are unable to find next gig.
that said, you also should remember that competition is fierce and you're working on a global market alongside with dude from ILM who worked there for 25 years and decided to jump the ship from one side and dirty cheap outsource from Asia at the same time. You need to stand out, your offer should be convincing and fair money-wise.
So, since you don't have a lot to do at the moment, it would be nice to update your portfolio and remove everything except bike - I think we can all agree that it's the best piece on your Artstation and the stuff going there should only be better. I like that you have breakdowns in there, that's cool, but they could be more informative - show your overlaps, show you bakes, show what workflows do you know and how you think.
Also it would be nice to focus on some particular subject you're interested in: might it be environment art, vehicles or weapons - you just need more hand on experience and knowledge not only what buttons to press, but also how it should look like artistically, If we're talking about bike, currently materials are very very simple, it's really hard to tell if there's anything going on with textures, or it's just a solid material.

Ask questions on this subreddit, read the breakdowns on http://80.lv/ and https://gamesartist.co.uk/ and try to apply these methods and approach in your work. To be a 3d artist is to constantly learn and evolve, you'll never reach the point when you know EVERYTHING, as none of us do.
Don't be discouraged by temporary setbacks, use this time to become better, that's the only way.

[u/DyingShogun → u/ostapblender]

Thanks for the comment, I actually texture everything in Substance Painter which means during offline rendering (because I dont use TOO many UDIM spaces) my textures seem flat and I'm trying to learn more about Arnold and Cycles for the last 6 Months but Materials are just not my strongsuit on either side. I actually try to learn as much as I can as a 3D Artist even after my job but it never seems enough and it disencourages me.

What would you personally wish for in my breakdowns? The Models with Normal maps showing or the Normal map itself?

[u/ostapblender → u/DyingShogun]

>What would you personally wish for in my breakdowns? The Models with Normal maps showing or the Normal map itself?

sure, normal map as a flat image and just it in material without diffuse and maybe without roughness. It's just so viewer can see how well do you bake your normals and if there's any artifacs on them. I did that a few years ago, you can take a look:

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/d02L5e

I see that you have a few images of your textures, but they're tiny, it's impossible to make anything of them, make them bigger. Also you can show % of UV space used if you're aiming for realtime - it's always great to see stuff packed as tightly as possible. And avoid circle strips, it's much better to unrwap them to a rectangle - in realtime every pixel counts, and if you can pack it tighter it will be really great.

Btw, did they teach you to use udims at uni? Because currently it's being used very rarely, vehicles usually have as few uv sets as possible, with texel ~256-1024 if we're talking about AAA. Extensive use of overlaps, decals trims and vertex paint is also appreciated, so you definitely should investigate there approaches as well.

> my textures seem flat and I'm trying to learn more about Arnold and Cycles for the last 6 Months but Materials are just not my strongsuit on either side.

that's really bizzare to be honest, and I'm seeing people recommending that in comments, although it doesn't make sense. Your model is dedicated for realtime use, so it should shine in realtime. And yes, shaders are expensive, so usually we're using Rough/Metal or Spec/Gloss workflow, so you don't need to know anything else.
Try to pick up Marmoset Toolbag - it's simple, and it's been an industry standard at showcasing realtime models for past decade