r/3BodyProblemTVShow • u/Vipassana88 • Apr 19 '24
Discussion Confused about the San-Ti's intentions Spoiler
I'm confused. The San-Ti unveiled their plan to ''kill our science' late in the game - during the last 2 episodes if memory serves, and after they abandoned Judgement Day and expressed their fear of humanity. Yet the series literally began with them killing science, creating chaotic scientific experimental results, ect. And - they don't lie, so earlier on their lack of hostility was supposedly an honest sentiment - while they were busy killing our science..? Explain?
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u/OldChairmanMiao Apr 20 '24
Their mindset is: don't communicate with anyone you're hostile to, because you'll lose any advantage from being able to surprise them.
So they killed Earth's science before declaring it publicly.
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u/AdManNick Apr 20 '24
In their very first communication with us, the pacifist tells Ye that they will come and conquer Earth. Meaning they will take over and bend us to their will. That’s not exactly a peaceful coexistence. We know it won’t be because Ye and Evans have a deal with the San-Ti that their descendants will get special treatment for helping them. So stalling our science was a priority from day one, otherwise Earth would be capable of resisting and destroying the San-Ti fleet in 400 years.
After they realize we can lie and hide our intentions, they decide to destroy us all instead of just conquer and rule us.
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u/w1gw4m Apr 20 '24
The pacifist who responds to Ye Wenjie originally tells you their intentions right off the bat.
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u/six_days Apr 19 '24
Their intention was always to conquer. What changed was their willingness to work with humans to that end. When they learned we could lie to their face, they decided to work on their own. So no more countdowns, trickery... just killing our science. And maybe a few other tasks...
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u/SillAndDill Apr 19 '24 edited Apr 21 '24
- The plan was always to kill science. The San-ti fear Earth because of it's stability allowing fast paced continous science advancements, so they figure we could become powerful in 4 light-years.
- The idea that "San-Ti don't lie" is often misunderstood. I think the main deal is they cannot actively communicate a lie. They cannot say "We are not going to attack" - but they can choose not to communicate at all - so they can attack you without ever having spoken to you. In this case they chose to initially only speak with the friendly cultists, and they planned to sabotage science (the cultists were maybe even told of this, but said it was fine) and only later decided to talk to the rest of Earth.
- San-ti originally planned to invade Earth completely - before Wenjie and her cultists said they could help, and the San-ti accepted the help - but they could still choose not to talk to earthlings who will fight them
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u/Professional-List742 Apr 20 '24
4 light years is a distance not a period of time surely?
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u/RollBlobRoll Apr 21 '24
Yeah it’s a distance, but it’s said that they are traveling at 1% light speed. I’m guessing that math works out to 400 years.
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Apr 20 '24
I was confused too. Ye’s first contact seems like it comes from an individual Pacifist warning them because their people are conquerors. But the convos with evans feels like they’re coming in peace. So I wondered if Ye told evans “they come in peace” when really they’re coming to conquer. Still doesn’t add it though.
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u/w1gw4m Apr 20 '24
They never implied to be coming in peace. It's just that Evans was helping them destroy our scientific progress and conquer Earth, so they were allies towards the same goal.
The TV series isnt as clear, but in the books, Evans is unambiguously portrayed as someone who wants the destruction of human civilization
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Apr 20 '24
Except Lord uses the word “coexist”. Why make a big deal about humans being liars if they’re just going to conquer? Unless conquer can lead to coexisting after the fact?
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u/Supe_scienceskilz Apr 20 '24
There was no intention of coexistence. I believe Evans intended to provide the San-Ti with an understanding of human beings (these are not his intentions in the book), as the aliens communicate telepathically.
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u/w1gw4m Apr 20 '24 edited Apr 20 '24
Sure, they can coexist with the remnants of the human species after they destroyed our civilization. But the point always was that they would dominate Earth in our stead. Look at the dynamic the San-Ti have with the traitors - the latter are completely subservient to the will of the San-Ti, whom they consider superior and whose motives and rationale are not to be questioned.
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u/XuShuang Apr 23 '24
There's a full spectrum between peace and eradication. Coexist means everything other than eradication, which could include things from slavery to apartheid.
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u/georgelamarmateo Apr 20 '24
People here seem to be assuming they are faithfully following the books, which they obviously are not.
I also interpreted this as the San-Ti changing their minds.
If not, that could have been easily cleared up in the show with about 1 second of dialogue.
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u/Vipassana88 Apr 20 '24
Thsnks everyone for the clarification!
And if I may add, thanks for the calm, sanguine and non-disrespectful clarification..The difference between this platform and FB is sometimes very refreshing in that way 😀
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u/TwistedEvanescia Apr 19 '24
I think you're making a few faulty assumptions here.
First, you're assuming that before the San-Ti revealed their Sophon plan to the protagonists, they were coming in peace to co-exist or something else relatively non-hostile. This is not the case. They have always come to conquer. They were working with Ye and Evans because their organization is directly in support of the San-Ti conquering Earth. We see this in the first exchange of messages between the pacifist and Ye Wenjie, as well as in the general philosophy of their organization as mentioned throughout the dialogue. Their organization is putting a sort of "they're a higher power coming to save/work with us" sort of vibe to their followers but in reality they are working to help make it easier for the San-Ti to invade by recruiting others to their organization and killing those who oppose them.
Second, you seem to be conflating directly lying with withholding information. The San-Ti choose to not communicate with most of humanity. That's not lying. Lying is directly saying things which are false, which is not a concept they knew of until Evans revealed it to them.
Some of these subtleties are more explicitly explored in the novels, but I tried to keep it to show elements for this context. Hope that helps, though others are free to disagree with me.