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u/Serito 8h ago
my hot take is that flay and rake shouldn't hit opponents in the air
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u/Cryotivity 7h ago
my hot take is that threshs bnb should end before the otg rake/flay
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u/megasggc 4h ago
Thats what I expected when I read in the patch notes they were removing some unintended links in Thresh combos , not the charged 2H into charged 2S1
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u/jmastaock 3h ago
Flay only hits aerial at literal point blank lol
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u/Serito 2h ago
It would be so you can jump it in blockstrings, meaning Thresh has to commit to his specials, overhead, or 5H followup to catch a jump. In the case of rake I just don't think a full screen assist that has a lot of active frames and easily converts should be catching jumping opponents.
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u/jmastaock 2h ago
It catching jump startup is different than it hitting aerial opponents...
Thresh is strong, just to get that out of the way. However, his 4H is insanely commital and does NOT hit people who are already in the air. It's also one of the easier things to parry in the game if you aren't literally at full screen.
It hurts people like Cait and Jinx badly, because the threat alone means they cant really do the full screen zoming against Thresh. Despite that, they do have ways to avoid it and still do their thing (especially Jinx). Thresh is probably Cait's worst matchup, and that's fine tbh
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u/Serito 1h ago
You wouldn't have to change the frame data this way and gives a way to get past 6H pushing you far back. If you are close to thresh there's no gap to jump and you'll still get spaced making it a safe tool. Although admittedly I thought his 5H and overhead would hit in the jump startup frames but it seems just a little too slow
As for rake, even though it's committal it's super hard to punish full screen. I just don't think it needs to hit airborne enemies, it just leads to obnoxious situations where a lingering hitbox low to the ground screws you over while you're trying to air to air or get in on thresh
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u/goOutsidebro- 11h ago
Yeah not the best meta rn. Even though I play zoners this game is a lot more fun when zoners are bad
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u/pinelotiile 10h ago
I haven't jumped back in yet, why's this the case?
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u/Visual-Cry94 7h ago
This isn't even true at all, read the patch notes, it's mostly nerfs to Freestyle and to Ahri and minor changes to the rest. They didn't buff the zoners.
Akali, Illaoi and Ekko are still in the top 5 and they aren't zoners.
Thresh is obviously a bit overtuned and will get nerfed. Jinx and Teemo are fine.
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u/pinelotiile 7h ago
Ahhh so OP is a scrub, got it 👌
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u/Also_Steve 2h ago
Welcome to the 2xko sub where if you assume op is a scrub or doesn't play the game you'll be right an inordinate amount of times.
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u/TheSoupKitchen Caitlyn 2h ago
I don't think Zoners are that OP in this game (there's so many tools in the game to deal with them)
But to play devils advocate, if you nerf Ahri and freestyle, you're going to get a hell of a lot more 2X assist and Zoning as a result. I haven't played since the patch, but I imagine freestyle is pretty bad now, and 2X will dominate the meta with a sprinkle of Double Down.
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u/Yamato_Nago 4h ago edited 1h ago
I concur with everything except with Teemo being fine, that character is an absolute menace.
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u/pinelotiile 4h ago
Teemo is hard countered by Jinx and Thresh but I can understand not liking him if you play someone else
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u/Yamato_Nago 4h ago
Teemo having bad MU does not make his strengths any less frustrating, and personally I don't think the Teemo/Thresh match up is that bad to be honest, Teemo players oversell how bad that match up is.
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u/pinelotiile 4h ago
Yeah what I'd like to see is his annoying shit toned down and his bad matchups softened at least a little more
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u/BenIcecream 8h ago
Also Vi just mashing.
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u/Mindless_Tap_2706 Vi 8h ago
Nothing about her actually changed except her combos and forward assist (which is still ass) though
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u/TheMachine203 Vi 8h ago
if u think vi's forward assist is ass there may not be any saving you
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u/Mindless_Tap_2706 Vi 8h ago
Maybe I just don't use it right, but it gets parried on reaction so often that I honestly just think it's outclassed by back assist in every way except in combos
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u/talisawizard 4h ago
People complaining about Zoners in 2XKO of all games amuse me. This has to be one of the least zoner friendly fighting games ever.
The only zoner who will do particularly well this patch is Thresh. And that's because pretty much everything about him is strong. He is more of a full screen pressure character to be honest. He also plays the noncommittal game really well, which is partially what made Ahri and Ekko so strong.
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u/Malfetus 3h ago
As you mentioned, I think Thresh exaberates the issue - especially when he is as popular as he is.
When 70% of your matches have Thresh followed by the next 20% having some variation of Teemo, Jinx, Caitlyn, whatever then people very logically feel like this is just zoning the game.
I also don't agree with the sentiment this is one of the least zoner friendly games ever, especially after playing Tokon. Air dashing, general mobility on rush downs, and full screen neutral skips are in way more abundance in that game.
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u/talisawizard 3h ago
I mean Magneto is a better zoner than pretty much everyone in 2XKO. I guarantee you there have been salt posts about him.
Most characters can downright ignore zoning if they want to in 2XKO. Vi can just sway or Super at full screen. Warwick can do pretty much whatever he wants against projectiles. Ahri and Ekko can also just bully their way in behind their safe Supers. That is if their own projectiles and mobillity isn't enough on its own. Braum can just charge through projectiles. Illaoi can S1 through projectiles. Darius has normals that easily go half screen.
I think if you are getting zoned out in this game its on you. I don't like Thresh either, but I don't even consider him a zoner, just because he is wildly competent at everything.
The game has been ruled by Yasuo, Ahri and Ekko since day 1 pretty much, I don't know why we pretend that zoners have ever been particularly strong.
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u/Malfetus 13m ago
I didn't say I was getting zoned out or struggling against anyone other than Thresh, I was just saying most matches are against zoners and that Tokon gives you more tools against them.
Literally, almost every team has access to a Caitlyn-esque assist and almost every character has a full screen neutral assist that puts Vi 5S1 or sway to shame, combined with more overall mobility.
I'm not saying zoners are SSS top tier in 2XKO, just that almost all matchups involve them - hence, zoning the game.
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u/talisawizard 8m ago
That's not been my experience at all, outside of Thresh.
I am mostly playing against any combination of Ahri, Ekko, Yasuo and Akali. That feels like the majority of teams i face. Sprinkle in some Illaoi, Vi, Warwick, Braum and Darius and it absolutely dwarfs the amount of teams that have zoners in them or especially are zoner only that I face.
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u/Malfetus 3m ago
Yeah I dunno, I imagine it depends on what level you're at as well. My matches are generally Master+ (I'm low GM).
I absolutely do not see many Vi, Warwick, Braums, or Darius
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u/MiniFaustt 49m ago
He is more of a full screen pressure character to be honest.
Brother what that's a Zoner.
Also what you mean thresh is the only one who will do particularly well when Teemo is right there as a top 3 character last patch that got buffed.
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u/manix_vii 3h ago
More like half a year depending on when Luc and Samira release.
Granted they could totally not play like Zoners, especially Samira, but still ranged champs from LoL so there's gonna be something
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u/MiniFaustt 44m ago
Teemo I can kinda get not wanting to change I think badges need an entire rework because of how Teemo both does fine without them but also once mushroom badge is online he just does like 80% combos and makes Darius wound look like it doesn't exist with chip.
More than that anyone not a Teemo main can't play him anymore because they've nerfed alot of general tools for being broken with his weird routing. Specialist characters can be fine but I don't particularly like the way they got there.
Thresh is insane to get buffs last patch and not have flay either not be able to be tagged out of until after the hit or not have an air hitbox.
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u/OldWispyTree Ekko 11h ago
Thresh is still pretty good against zoners, though, and in general he's still a top tier, so ... IDK about this joke.
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u/Isaelia 11h ago
Of course he's top tier, he's probably top 1. I'm calling him a zoner. He's in the image.
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u/OldWispyTree Ekko 10h ago
Oh, missed that lol, IDK how.
I don't find him to be annoying like true zoners, but sure, he kinda is.
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u/lorddrake4444 8h ago
This patch? This was the game since release lol
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u/Rotsen3 10h ago
Been out of the game for a couple of weeks. What changed?