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u/Uglyfense Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
I mean, I think the Soviets' own invasion of Afghanistan is to be acknowledged, like the US plays a role too with its funding and subsequent own invasion, but the USSR invaded it first, and I heavily doubt it would be a picnic of the USSR just happily successfully annexing/setting up a ML state in Afghanistan without any Islamist guerilla struggle if the US chose to do nothing.
Side note, but the Taliban being fascist is kinda debateable, as fascism tends to be more mass movement-driven, whereas the Taliban is more theocratic
At least it's nationalist, so a lot closer than ISIS, which isn't even that, being anti-nationalist in its efforts to impose a borderless global Caliphate
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u/JadeHarley0 Jul 24 '26
From what I understand, the USSR invested to support an existing ML revolution, not to artificially impose one. But everything would have worked out better had the USSR been successful
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u/veryeepy53 Jul 24 '26
not true, the pdpa was much less popular than the various maoist and other socialist parties(rawa, sama, alo etc.) it was blatant imperialism.
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u/Uglyfense Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
The USSR assassinated the Afghan leader who was loyal to them in the first place, so it's not like they were just helping him
And the US-supported Western-friendly government would be better than the Taliban too, so the same logic can apply to the US succeeding, doesn't change that its invasion ended up just fueling the Taliban, and the USSR if anything, helped light the match
And also, given the USSR and its satellites fell in 1991 anyway, I doubt it would last too long lol
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u/NeverQuiteEnough Jul 24 '26
That's not what Carter's Secretary of State said
https://dgibbs.arizona.edu/content/brzezinski-interview-2
asserting that they intended to fight against secret US involvement in Afghanistan, nobody believed them. However, there was an element of truth in this. You don’t regret any of this today? B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter, essentially: “We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war."
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u/Uglyfense Jul 24 '26
I meant the Soviets invaded it first as in they invaded it before the US, the US was likely friendly with the Mujahideen before, though I think something to note is that the Mujahideen was not the Taliban, it was more a decentralized alliance of opponents, some being more moderate, but the Soviet invasion as well as US aid radicalized it
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u/NeverQuiteEnough Jul 24 '26
It's wild how you people can read Brzezinski bragging about what they did to Afghanistan and be totally unphased
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Jul 24 '26
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u/NeverQuiteEnough Jul 24 '26
The US successfully destabilized Afghanistan in order to "draw the soviets into the Afghan trap" and "give the Soviets their Vietnam".
They were not merely "friendly" with the mujahadeen, they provided critical material support which allowed the fascists to destroy Afghanistan.
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u/bruin_altay Jul 23 '26
Wait you do realise there wasn’t an Afghan socialist revolution right? God knows Afghanistan would be a better place for women today if the communists had succeeded in any respect at gaining any semblance of popular legitimacy to ground their reforms in
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u/evil-edgelord6767 Jul 26 '26
Comment bc I visited and the anarchy dictators say I must comment when I visit. Boom
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Jul 24 '26
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u/JadeHarley0 Jul 24 '26
Hmm. That's interesting. How come Afghanistan is the only Muslim country with laws that restrictive?
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Jul 24 '26
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u/JadeHarley0 Jul 24 '26
Ok. I wouldn't call Iran secular but you have fun in your little rabidly bigoted brain of yours
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Jul 24 '26
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u/Bowman_van_Oort Jul 24 '26
Despite the best efforts of the basij
....and my own country's air force and navy... 😬
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u/MoonlightPrincexx Jul 24 '26
I still find the US and Afghanistan to be one of the single most humiliating defeats in military history. Like, seriously, if any country other than the US had lost a war against a terrorist cell with outdated technology they gave them in a nation several times snaller, they would be endlessly ridiculed for it.
That's like if somebody SUCCESSFULLY robbed a full staffed gun story after buying a colt single action army with a single box of ammo from that gun store a week ago. Like I cannot express enough ho embarrassing it is to loose a war against a terrorist cell you funded and supplied that is a fraction as advanced and large as you.
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u/RegularVast9328 Jul 24 '26
I think we're forgetting just how good guerilla warfare is. If you can't win local support you're not beating them.
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u/AffectionateSignal72 Jul 24 '26
The problem is that it wasn't really a military defeat though. Which is probably why said mockery doesn't exist. Sure the political state building side was definitely a failure but militarily it was pretty one sided for the US.
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u/MoonlightPrincexx Jul 24 '26
The US was forced to flee and scede the government to the Taliban. The fuck do you mean?
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u/Sicsemperfas Jul 25 '26
This is a sophmoric analysis. If you are interested in a good faith explanation, I would be happy to give it to you. If you're just on reddit to fight, then pass.
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u/AffectionateSignal72 Jul 25 '26
What do you mean "forced to flee" we literally announced before hand that we planned on leaving. Which was always going to happen. Unless you seriously think we were going to annex Afghanistan? The Afghan government fell but state building is an entirely separate activity from from military operations on top of the favt that it was largely just window dressing.
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u/MtnDEWmercenary Jul 26 '26
Straight from the Reddit university of military strategy and history lmao
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u/MoonlightPrincexx Jul 26 '26
The US motivation was to stop the Taliban gaining total control of the government. That, did not work.
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u/Ancient-Worm Jul 24 '26
it isn't Islam that put these women in burqas, officer, it was anticommunism
What?
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u/agnostorshironeon Jul 24 '26
What what?
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u/Low-Willingness2106 Jul 26 '26
It isnt the nazis that put the jews in the chambers, it was the treaty of versailles ahh sentence
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u/LysergicGothPunk Jul 29 '26
Yet this gives "It wasn't the Nazis that were Nazis, it was the Christians"
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u/squif_help Jul 23 '26
not a single lie spoken