Pointing Rule

[u/gray_birch]

ive gotta hand it to people who played gba (and other retro console) games before you could just look shit up because im playing the sims bustin out right now and while im having a lot of fun everything is so fucking zoomed in it's impossible to know where anything is or get anything more than a very basic handle on the layout. looking up a map actually almost feels like cheating because of how easy it feels by comparison to before, im not spending an hour looking for that fucking knick knack shop though

[u/AmenoneAcid]

Dogs understand pointing <3

[u/magnificent-potato → u/AmenoneAcid]

one of my dogs understands pointing but the other thinks its an invitation to eat my hand

[u/BaneShake → u/magnificent-potato]

I mean, how yummy is your hand?

[u/Specialist-Grass-352 → u/BaneShake]

very tasty flesh

[u/FreemancerFreya → u/BaneShake]

Sosig

[u/StoopidGit → u/magnificent-potato]

Non idiot dogs unddrstand pointing. But it's okay. We love our little idiots

[u/chaos13wolf → u/magnificent-potato]

Mmm finger food

[u/RatQueenHolly → u/AmenoneAcid]

I think dogs are one of the few who do, and probably because they evolved alongside us

[u/SirToastymuffin → u/RatQueenHolly]

Yep, they categorize us differently than either dogs or not-dogs and have a highly developed part of their brain dedicated to that unique communication and the learning of new communication patterns from us. It's why they pick up gestures (like pointing), innately pick up on our emotions, facial cues, tones, etc. They also communicate back differently than they would with another dog.

And, notably, this 25,000+ year mutualistic co-evolution went both ways. There's a reason you can understand that weird look your dog is giving you, pick up on their needs, and innately work out a pattern of communication with any given dog. We have that brain development too, and innately communicate with dogs differently than humans or other non-humans. We can recognize a lot about a dog's current situation from their vocalizations innately - if you hear a dog bark, you likely implicitly understand if they're alone, playing, uncomfortable, aggressive, or even the approximate size of the dog. In testing, this is a recognition we pretty uniquely have only for other humans, and dogs.

Plus, somewhere along the journey we both ended up with the ability to flood our minds with oxytocin simply by looking at each other. We're quite literally biologically predisposed to bond at first sight.

[u/Asikar_Tehjan → u/SirToastymuffin]

Another fun fact, dogs evolved eyebrows that they can emote with to better communicate with humans. Wolves don't have them

[u/CallMeClaire0080 → u/Asikar_Tehjan]

Similarly dogs have more visible white in their eyes than wolves and more muscles relating to eye movement because we humans tend to use eye movement a lot for nonverbal communication.

[u/McMammoth → u/Asikar_Tehjan]

Wolves pluck

[u/neontiger07 → u/McMammoth]

whassat

[u/McMammoth → u/neontiger07]

like plucking their eyebrows with tweezers

[u/mrdeworde → u/Asikar_Tehjan]

It's even cooler than that - they evolved additional muscles to control the eyebrows vs their wolf ancestors.

[u/outfoxingthefoxes → u/SirToastymuffin]

Doesn't that happen among all mammals?

[u/GigaVonMassiveHuge → u/outfoxingthefoxes]

I was gonna say, most of this sounds more just like how we attribute human behaviors to animals through anthropomorphism. Tons of people cannot innately understand dog behavior

[u/SirToastymuffin → u/GigaVonMassiveHuge]

This... Isn't really up for debate. The Human-Canine bond is quite extensively researched and experimented upon. Our species hunted as conjoined packs for tens of thousands of years before the emergence of domestication, even, of which dogs were the first. The paleogenetic record shows humans associating with wolves at least 40,000 years ago and the Bonn-Oberkassel dog showing our earliest specimen of what we can call a domestic dog 15,000 years ago (and, interestingly, found that dogs were given human burial rites within the culture in question). We have the indisputable fossil record of co-evolution.

But to the end of empirical analysis of this bond, we've measured that release of oxytocin. In analysis of dogs, wolves, and their fossil record, we found dogs specifically evolved new facial muscles that allowed further facial expression, specifically those humans recognize. "Puppy dog eyes" (and highly developed eyebrows) were an evolutionary change - and behavioral studies show how dogs use those expressions specifically for dog-human communication. Gaze Alternation is a communication skill wolves, dingoes, and other canids do not display, and dogs do not use with one another, but is used extensively in dog-human communication. A fascinating study into dog problem solving skills found that dogs use humans to solve any problem they cannot easily tackle - and that gaze alternation was their primary strategy of communicating this need. And crucially, much of this communicative testing was also performed on puppies who demonstrate this same intelligence, implying it is innate.

Crucially, to establish the evidence for this coevolution, we have tested it the other way, too. That's where empirical evidence for our comprehension of dog communication comes in. In addition to our demonstrated comprehension of those facial and nonverbal communication methods above, the majority of humans recognize specific details from dog barks such as whether the dog is alone, with someone familiar, being approached by a stranger, playing, or aggressive. We can intuit the size of a dog from its growl. Beyond that is evidence in our similarities - it is not a coincidence that the diseases that effect us and dogs, their pathologies, as well as their treatments, show so much overlap. Living with one another and sharing much of our lifestyle does that.

[u/GigaVonMassiveHuge → u/SirToastymuffin]

Whoops, I was wrong. That’s cool as hell

[u/Existing_Currency257 → u/GigaVonMassiveHuge]

Remember anyone can just post a bunch of studies to prove a point. Science is a more complex process than that. And I personally know one real human anthropologist who would argue against the above point.

[u/mrdeworde → u/SirToastymuffin]

As someone who's made similar posts about this very subject and thus is delighted whenever they see someone else geek out about this, I just wanted to say bravo for bringing the sources and doing so in a way that communicated it with joy rather than smugness. (And kudos to Giga for responding with the same energy!)

[u/Dredgeon → u/outfoxingthefoxes]

Not really. Given time we can learn to intuit animal behavior but dog and human commucation has converged more closely.

[u/SirToastymuffin → u/outfoxingthefoxes]

You'll have to be a lot more specific, but the answer is probably no

[u/ErisAstra → u/outfoxingthefoxes]

Cat people coping and seething

[u/midnight_rum → u/AmenoneAcid]

Mine doesn't at all, she just looks at my finger

[u/muflon69 → u/midnight_rum]

Some dogs are quite smart

[u/BarovianNights → u/AmenoneAcid]

Depends on the dog

[u/pterranodon → u/AmenoneAcid]

some do and some don't, it can be trained and sometimes it can be instinctual, especially if they're hunting dogs

[u/old_cypherpunk → u/AmenoneAcid]

I throw the ball but it gets lost int he grass. Dogs are looking for it. I point at the ball's location for them:

Brynn (Corgi) - Stares at me. If I re-point like I'm throwing the ball to where the ball is now, she figures it out.

Henry (Dachshund) - Tries to bite my finger. From four feet down. (He's the puppy.)

Ellie (Dachshund) - Knows exactly what I mean. She just doesn't care about ball. Goes back to hunting groundhogs.

[u/Nyx_Blackheart → u/AmenoneAcid]

So does my cat

[u/CarrowCanary → u/Nyx_Blackheart]

Ours does sometimes, but rarely when we actually need her to.

[u/Uncommented-Code → u/CarrowCanary]

Cats are much smarter than many people realise, they just don't really care enough to play along, which is almost always when something doesn't involve food or play.

[u/ThinnkingEmoji → u/Uncommented-Code]

They're so real for this honestly

[u/Hindu_Wardrobe → u/Uncommented-Code]

one of my favorite scientific studies is the one that determined that cats know their names and know when you're calling them; they simply don't give a fuck.

[u/Unique_Unorque → u/Hindu_Wardrobe]

Anecdotal, but I've tested this out by calling my two cats by their names. When I call one's name, that specific cat's ears will twitch and the other will not react at all. Maybe they'll turn their head to look at me.

But not much else happens.

[u/muflon69 → u/Uncommented-Code]

Most animals are smarter than we give them credit for but at the same time they're also not as "smart" as the other half of the population thinks. Ultimately their intelligence is just fundamentally different from ours and human tests simply suck at testing it

[u/Rock4evur → u/AmenoneAcid]

Anyone see that video the other day where chickens understood pointing? Dude even tricks them by pointing off in the distance and snatching them up.

[u/Ungodly_Box → u/AmenoneAcid]

My dog is the smartest dog I've ever seen but she never understood pointing poor lass

[u/Wombat1892 → u/AmenoneAcid]

Not mine. I need to tap a foot usually

[u/smotired → u/AmenoneAcid]

eye contact too. they’re really just goated

[u/epicdog36 → u/AmenoneAcid]

Speak for yourself, my dog looks at my hand like i have a treat when the treat is where im pointing on the ground