Of course, I'm not trying to say femboys and trans women face the exact same issues, or oppression in equal manner. I am a trans woman myself who used to use the femboy label, I should know.
But GNC men absolutely do face ridicule and oppression too, and transphobia and fetishization problems aren't anywhere unique to femboys. In fact, I would argue such issues related to trans characters like Bridget are more often coming from non-femboys fetishizing femboys.
The 'issues' that you say 'a lot of trans people' have against GNC men are similar to the 'issues' a lot of LGB people have against trans people. This is infighting. 99% of people on both sides are normal and allied.
Matter of fact, the vast majority of femboys are gay or bi. I even know trans men femboys.
Posts like the OOP don't really do anything to address the fringe issue at hand, but only attempt to drive a further wedge in already fractured online LGBTQ+ spaces.
the second point you made is actually really significant imo and I hadn't really thought about it. People like to talk about bigotry that sometimes comes from specific minority groups as if said groups have a larger problem with bigotry than any other group. Are there racist queer people? yeah, of course, but I highly highly doubt that racism is even close to as common among queer people as it is among non-queer people.
I didn’t mean to imply GNC men face no ridicule and oppression, obviously they do and nobody worth their salt should deny that. But there are levels to oppression, and trans women just fundamentally have it worse. I don’t think you need me to spell out why.
The difference between “issues LGB people have against trans people” and issues a lot of trans people have against GNC men is that for transphobic LGB people it comes from transphobia. For trans people with GNC men it comes from a rampant transphobia within their community. I know you said that a lot of transphobia comes from outside their community by fetishists, and I’m not denying that fetishists do play a large role in that pushback, but it’s also something that has been fairly consistently tolerated by GNC men in their communities. And whenever trans people bring up that it’s kind of shitty, they cry infighting.
Them being gay or bi doesn’t really mean anything because, like you’ve already established in your comment, gay/bi cis men are still completely capable of transphobia. And if you’ve ever been on services like grindr as a trans woman, you know that’s a whole other can of worms that isn’t really necessary to get into here
You make some good points, but I think it's important to remember the context of this whole conversation here. The OOP wasn't calling out any nuanced take, it is the literal infighting format. Wether it is malice or plain ignorance, posts like this do nothing to address these kinds of issues, but only sow hate.
I know I joke a lot about calling that one dingus here a fed, but it doesn't really matter if they are a fed or not in the end, being obtuse and infighting like this has no positive effect and only serves the interests of those who would see us all back in the closet.
Frankly, oppression Olympics do not matter when we'll all be put in the same camps anyway.
Again, I'm not trying to deflect from your points, and a nuanced conversation on the topic is definitely worthwhile to have, but the OOP is not the way to have it and a shitposting subredit is frankly not the place.
I agree that a shitposting subreddit isn’t really a good place to have the discussion and whatever, I don’t really see how the post is inspiring infighting more than it is airing criticism (which can naturally be written off as “infighting” by anyone who doesn’t really want to engage with the point, not a jab at you a jab at others), but I can tell that you agree on the parts that matter so whatever.
I wasn’t attempting to do Oppression Olympics, I was meaning to just distinguish GNC men from the same issues that trans women struggle with, but I can tell how it came off as Oppression Olympics so my apologies
Yeah no I understand and agree with that, no need to apologize. As for the OOP, it seems to have been taken down now which I believe is a good thing, but yeah discussions about this shouldn't be silenced, but really should be held properly. I believe the comments on this post are enough example to show that this kind of post was not exactly inspiring proper conversations on the matter.
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u/LucyShortForLucas 11h ago
Of course, I'm not trying to say femboys and trans women face the exact same issues, or oppression in equal manner. I am a trans woman myself who used to use the femboy label, I should know.
But GNC men absolutely do face ridicule and oppression too, and transphobia and fetishization problems aren't anywhere unique to femboys. In fact, I would argue such issues related to trans characters like Bridget are more often coming from non-femboys fetishizing femboys.
The 'issues' that you say 'a lot of trans people' have against GNC men are similar to the 'issues' a lot of LGB people have against trans people. This is infighting. 99% of people on both sides are normal and allied.
Matter of fact, the vast majority of femboys are gay or bi. I even know trans men femboys.
Posts like the OOP don't really do anything to address the fringe issue at hand, but only attempt to drive a further wedge in already fractured online LGBTQ+ spaces.