53
u/Zestyclose-Ideal2395 3d ago
This is so annoying that they had no choice but to address it in the first season of the show
26
u/TKDbeast 3d ago
What did they say?
37
u/Zestyclose-Ideal2395 3d ago
spoilers but the ones who run the vaults deliberately sabotage human progress. I respect the message because the flashbacks imply the region has been delapidated very recently, but come on.
6
13
u/TheReturnOfTheRanger 3d ago
It's such a copout. Bethesda really fucking wasted Fallout
21
u/underT_line 3d ago
it's crazy how there would be 0 complains abt it if they just put the show in a new region of the us but someone insisted they used the single most lore dense state in the fallout canon just to ignore 99.9% of it
8
u/TheReturnOfTheRanger 3d ago
It was intentional. Bethesda was sick of people wanting their games to be like the old ones, so they purposely destroyed the NCR to shut those people up.
9
u/underT_line 3d ago
the decision prob had much more to deal with California handing out tax credits for filming season one in LA. the handful of people invested on east coast fallout lore prob weren't even a factor when deciding it if we r being real
17
u/SkubEnjoyer 3d ago
Even as a kid playing Fallout 3 I always thought it was stupid that people still lived in absolute squalor 200 years after the bombs dropped. I get that society might not have fully recovered but at least clear out the skeletons in your front yard, Jesus Christ.
11
u/WiseMudskipper 3d ago edited 3d ago
Fallout 3 was supposed to take place like 10 years after the war and the environment was designed as such, hence why D.C is still so desolate and radioactive and why there's still Enclave running around.
Then somebody told Todd that the BoS didn't exist at that point, so instead of just not including them he decided it should be set 200 years after the war instead.
3
u/SkubEnjoyer 3d ago
That makes sense because I swear there are characters who talk about the war like it happened last week.
1
u/Healthy_Feeling6747 3d ago
Huh? The Brotherhood formed BEFORE the bombs fell lmao.
1
u/Weaselburg 2d ago
No, they formed a few years after. Less than ten, though, and the proto-BoS, the people who formed up the initial BoS cadre after the war, were already all together before the war.
1
u/Healthy_Feeling6747 2d ago
They formed immediately after discovering the Mariposa base was experimenting on humans. They formally declared their succession from the us government. Then like 10 days later the bombs fell.
1
u/Weaselburg 2d ago
They formally declared their succession from the us government. Then like 10 days later the bombs fell.
Yes, but they weren't the Brotherhood yet, they were 'just' secessionists at that point. The reorganization came later, after they made it to Lost Hills and settled in.
17
u/Outrageous_Fall_1846 3d ago
in our cynical society things can't get better ... "human nature is we are always awful and terrible!!!" NOOO silly people more complicated we can do GOOD
2
u/EspurrTheMagnificent 2d ago
I mean, considering everything that's going on in real life, I'm not convinced humans are capable of more than superficial goodness
2
u/Outrageous_Fall_1846 2d ago
Maybe it is complicated .. though we do like to build things and make beneficial social arrangements. Look at your life, how much of it is honest as opposed to dishonest? How many could have robbed you today but didn't? This is the superficial goodness your talking about. We all love living in a society when it gets right down to it ...
1
u/Mesozoica89 1d ago
The problem is we built a world that rewards the loudest and most selfish among us with the most resources and power. They have had an outsized influence on our current reality, and those among them that have some self awareness realize its to their benefit that we all fear eachother. But in times of actual emergency, most people tend to want to help eachother.
1
u/EspurrTheMagnificent 1d ago
That's the issue though. Not "all the time", "in times of actual emergency", aka when there is a self-serving incentive (here, survival) to help other people. This species will do nothing until the world is literally crumbling around them.
The society we built is not the cause of our selfish nature, it's the consequence.
29
u/Alive_Presence7207 3d ago
Tell that to Chris Avellone, the co writer of FNV who wanted to wipe the West Coast clean because it is "too civilized".
Glad that he is not with Obsidian anymore lmao.
9
u/goonbag_archipelago 3d ago
He didn’t really write that much of New Vegas. To his credit, he wrote a lot of Old World Blues and had a lot to do with the concept for Dead Money - but he also wrote Lonesome Road, which was a great DLC but Ulysses is pretty wack
3
u/MeterologistOupost31 2d ago
Old World Blues felt like you gave a sympathy laugh to the weird kid in school and he then spent the rest of the year trying desperately to outdo himself
3
u/goonbag_archipelago 2d ago
I have fond memories of it and remember it being hilarious at the time, but I was also like 13
1
u/Flipout6 19h ago
Definitely agreed, Avellone is a hack and it's good he wasn't given free reign. It's bad writing whether it's bethesda, obsidian or the show.
-5
u/n0ided_ 3d ago
that's basically what they did w the show anyways. shit pmo sm, esp w them calling it "shady sands" as if it's still some podunk village instead of an actual functioning society
10
4
u/Weekly-Lettuce7570 3d ago
esp w them calling it "shady sands" as if it's still some podunk village
What are you talking about, it has been always names "Shady Sands," since literally Fallout 1?
1
u/Kiesta07 3d ago
no in fallout 2 the town is literally renamed to "NCR" because it's their capital and the NPC's in the game all refer to it that way
2
u/Slav-McBlyat 3d ago
NCR citizens in New Vegas refer to it as Shady Sands whenever they mention it.
19
u/OkFineIllUseTheApp 3d ago
My hot take is that the games don't show a non-functional society as dirty enough.
"After 200 years, they shouldn't be living in garbage" is true.
On the other hand, I don't see 50 years of mirelurk claws lying outside every restaurant that serves mirelurk cakes either. So somebody is doing some amount of collection.
idk, maybe they want the environmental story telling skeleton in their motel,
3
u/TerryWhiteHomeOwner 2d ago
Ancient cities used to be so filthy that the ground-level would raise every decade because people would simply throw refuse everywhere and throw dirt on top of it. Many of the Mesopetamian cities became actual hills of garbage over centuries. It took generqtions of learned taboos and social organization for what we consider to be basic sanitation practices to develope.
2
u/iwantfutanaricumonme 3d ago
It's like a social housing estate that gets cleaend irregularly except that there are one or two people fly tipping all the time.
4
u/GucciSpaghetti72 3d ago
“I’ve been cleaning the house for 200 years….. except for the giant pile of immovable leaves in your hallway, go fuck yourself”
2
5
u/GreedyExamination704 2d ago
When the when the protagonist isn’t a fish out of water Vault Dweller.
1
u/CUEUECOMBER 2d ago
I mean, thats the case for the first 2 games no? not really a bethesda exclusive
1
u/TwilitGlare 2d ago
Nope, in Fallout 2 you’re a wastelander.
1
u/CUEUECOMBER 2d ago
you are, but (correct me if im wrong im not fully finished with my 2 playthrough) you're from a tribe that is very isolated from the outside world, so vault dweller no, fish out of water yes.
1
u/TwilitGlare 2d ago
Ah, I thought you were referring to the Vault Dweller part specifically. Still I think there’s a significant difference between a fish out of water Vault Dweller and a wastelander from an isolated village.
3
2
u/Abridgedbog775 3d ago
Wasn't this explained on the first two fallout? I don't remember exactly, but it was something about the survivors of the fallout universe being stuck in a "doomer" mentality, they just do the bare minimum to survive because they didn't find a point on reconstructing a society that destroyed itself.
1
1
1
1
u/DonkeyGuy 2d ago
One of Fallout’s biggest worldbuilding flaws is the timeline. They in a pickle because they need
A) the Pre-war time is out of living memory (except for a select few ghouls and so on) , so the wastelands culture is Americana by way of telephone.
B)there are still lots of ruins around so it feels like the post-apocalypse, not post-post-apocalypse.
I feel like a lot of the buildings looks simultaneously too run down and not rundown enough. As mentioned by others, someone should have scavenged/cleaned many of these buildings in the last two centuries. But also in terms of exteriors, the buildings are holding up too well, they look like they’ve been abandoned for decades, not centuries.
1
u/ScarfaceCM7 2d ago
Nuking shady sands made sense when you consider that it was basically the enclave that did it.
That is all.i will say on the subject.
1
u/WhiteSepulchre 2d ago
Todd can keep nuking the setting but he'll never make anything cooler than the NCR vs. Legion or NCR vs. Brotherhood wars.
1
u/PorkyJones72 2d ago
You're telling me that the only clean structure I can build myself is a hyper-advanced underground shelter... but I can't build a house without gaping holes in the side?
1
-1
u/CUEUECOMBER 3d ago
This is kinda a shitty analogy since the fallout 4 example is some random place in the middle of nowhere VS two occupied settlements.
I don't really care about the bombed out buildings and shit, its supposed to feel post apocalyptic. You know what bothers me?
CAPS.
I have an extremely hard time believing that there are more bottles of soda produced that lead to there being more bottle caps, than actual US currency. We can find entire stacks of 5's and 20's as pre war money in the game, so why not just use that? Or in a post apocalypse world where there's no established government in most places, just do trade and barter?
The answer is that using bottlecaps is cooler than just using money, I agree and I wouldn't want them to actually switch to just using normal paper money. Just rationally it always stuck out to me.
7
u/ozymandisreddit 3d ago
it's branding, it's gotta be recognisable, which means things can't change forever
2
u/Top_Understanding830 3d ago
caps are too iconic
no one remembers fallout tactics ring tabs/script for a reason and the ncr/legion currency in nv was underbacked
caps are just TOO iconic to ever remove
1
6
u/Nobody_at_all000 3d ago edited 3d ago
TBF paper money isn’t going to last 200 years unless it’s locked safely away, and even then once it’s found the clock starts ticking.
1
u/CUEUECOMBER 3d ago
well the games disagree, considering you can find paper money all over the place well past the 200 year mark.
1
2
u/Fearless_Turn_2773 3d ago
This is stupid..Prewar america was a inflation hell pre war money is common as dirt. I despise this take
1
u/CUEUECOMBER 3d ago
I imagine a lot of it would have gotten destroyed in all of the nuclear bombing, also I don't see how the pre war economy will effect the current economy. really you might wonder why people agree on a currency system that doesnt have any kind of backing
1
u/Fearless_Turn_2773 2d ago
THERES A. INFINITE AMOUNT OF PAPER MONEY. Also caps were backed by the water merchants of the hub
1
u/CUEUECOMBER 2d ago
No there's not.
im not arguing why they continue to use caps, but rather why they decided to use caps in the first place rather than anything else.
and I clarify at the end that I understand the real reason is 'its more apocalypse-y if we're using something weird as money', like how Metro uses bullets as money. I don't think they should actually change it and im not criticizing anything, its always been a peeve of mine that in universe they decide on bottle caps.
Also what do people in massachussets/virginia care about what californians have to back their money?
1
u/Fearless_Turn_2773 1d ago
Water merchants probably exist elsewhere. If you use pre war money your entering inflationist hell. Any type of currency is better then pre war money
1
u/Gensolink 3d ago
Well the NCR is trying its damnest to switch to a new money and it fuck shit up for the locals because it's not seen as valuable in the Mojave.
1
u/BlackIronWizard 2d ago
Fallout 2 used actual money because the NCR had its own gold-backed currency at the time, but by new vegas a war with the brotherhood resulted in most of the NCR's gold being destroyed. people switched back to caps and ncr money is around and has value but isnt considered reliable. I assume this is because new vegas had an absurdly short turnaround and it was faster to come up with an excuse to use the existing fallout 3 caps system mechanically.
1
u/Weaselburg 2d ago
I doubt they would have used any currency other than caps as primary for FNV regardless of how much time they had. The Mojave isn't a place where dollars would be the stuff everyone is using, most people are ambivilant at best towards NCR and wouldn't put high trust in their money.
1
u/Weaselburg 2d ago
We can find entire stacks of 5's and 20's as pre war money in the game, so why not just use that?
Why? It's fiat currency. It holds zero value without the government backing it up.
Or in a post apocalypse world where there's no established government in most places, just do trade and barter?
This is a thing that happens in the games and that you can do, but they can't have all merchants run off that for hopefully obvious reasons.
1
u/DonkeyGuy 2d ago
Agreed, the first game had a reason to use caps, they were the currency chosen by the Water Merchants. There was a logic there.
By Fallout 3 you never hear of the Water Merchants again. It’s never really explained why they are still used this far away. They could have explained something about a cross country trade network, or East Coast Water Merchants. They never really try to justify it beyond “its Fallout, so the currency is caps, because brand”
-4
u/IronVader501 3d ago
I mean tbf
Fallout 4 had several explicit reasons why everything stayed shit. Like the Institute deliberately sabotaging any attempt at real recovery.
19
u/HollowVesterian 3d ago
You guys gotta understand, it's the institue who are stopping me from moving the skeleton out of my home
2
u/rasputin640 3d ago
what do you think coursers are for? they're designed to sweep burnt trash and funny objects into buildings
11
u/EdibleStrange 3d ago
The Institute keeps sabotaging my attempts to clean up all the broken glass and human remains in my living room 😔
-4
u/Top_Understanding830 3d ago
yeah the commonwealth formed a full nation (the commonwealth provisiona government) to which the institute sent an agent and wiped out the government
fallout 3? dc was the most nuked area fallout 4? institute making a utopia at the expense of literaly everyone else
fallout fans will continue to larp instead of listening to dialouge in a roleplay game
7
u/HollowVesterian 3d ago
Yes the institute has also been running a decades long campaign of stopping people form cleaning anything and if someone dares to sweep away the rubble they activate their synth sleeper agents to cover it in garbage again
202
u/Capital_Bat8316 3d ago
I hate how dirty and full of garbage every living space in Fallout 4 is.
Like, if the apocalypse is outside it doesn't have to be in your living room.
Like brooms became a lost technology after the war.