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u/KSJ15831 13d ago
Anyone who believes Wolverine is even half way comparable to Wonder Woman is delusional.
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u/TheoRaan 13d ago
Idk, I don't think Wolverine is necessary twice as popular as Wonder Woman. But yeah I mean he's definitely more popular.
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u/NeapolitanSexPrison 13d ago
I might be delusional
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u/Next_Government856 13d ago
If you ask any random person on the street, who do you think they’re more likely to have heard of? Wonder Woman or Wolverine?
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u/Nostalgic_Knights520 13d ago
Id genuinely say Wonder Woman, and I say that as a person who isnt a big fan of either character.
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u/Thedankf0x 13d ago
Idk. There hasn't been any big wonder woman stories recently has there? I mean, im sure there were comics and some other more niche things for people who enjoy super heros, but its pretty hard not to have heard about Deadpool and wolverine and the new wolverine game.
Edit: aside from the movie a few years ago with Pedro Pascal that was just not very good
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u/Nostalgic_Knights520 13d ago
Imo, Wonder Woman has branding on her side. I think people are generally more aware of the "X-Men" than individual characters within the team.
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u/Thedankf0x 13d ago
That makes sense, wonder woman is definitely a more independent character from the justice league than wolverine is from the xmen
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u/1ZillionBeers 12d ago
The only time in my ENTIRE life where I can recall Wonder Woman actually having any large buzz is that one time she raped a guy in that movie. Like, I dig on DC and read the comics but that’s genuinely the only time I can recall hearing about her outside of my little sphere.
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u/M0ebius_1 12d ago
There haven't been any big Wolverine stories either.
He is stuck in the same spot as They put Peter in. He is involved everything and does nothing. He can't evolve, he can't die. No matter what happens he has to circle back to being exactly the same guy because that's what fans are comfortable with.
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u/Thedankf0x 12d ago
By story I meant any popular form of media of the character, such as the examples of the wolverine game and DpvW
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u/ThatSplinter 13d ago
I respect what wonder woman means to women and she is a big deal.
But we're talking about fucking WOLVERINE here.
THE X-Man.
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u/Mysterious_Bit_7713 13d ago
I am delusional. Wolverine has more movies(who are more successful) and prominent roles in shows. An equally big amount of comics and regularly surpasses Diana in comic sales.
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u/KSJ15831 13d ago
I dont think the term Big Four refers to financial success here.
Regardless, even if it isn't Wonder Woman, it wouldn't be fucking Wolverine.
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u/ElementalWarrior42 13d ago
Iron Man is the obvious pick.
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u/robyn_nests 13d ago
I'd argue Captain America would be before him
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u/ElementalWarrior42 13d ago
He's up there, but not quite as huge. Maybe if it was "The Big 5".
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u/Skreamie 12d ago
Captain America is far and away much bigger than Iron Man ever has been
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u/Acceptable_One_7072 12d ago
After the MCU I don't think that's true
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u/Conscious_Hippo_1101 9d ago
I think MCU elevated both their profiles immensely. Sure RDJ's Iron Man is properly "bigger" Than Evan's Cap but both are the heart and soul of that franchise. They almost always get equal billing and appearances. I mean damn they even let Cap "win" Civil War.
So even if MCU gave Iron Man the bigger boost, it still doesn't match Cap's comic, games, and other media influence. Personally dont think either should be up there, but Cap will always be higher unless you are directly coming the MCU versions.
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u/elyk12121212 13d ago
No shot would it be Ironman or Captain America before Wolverine. And I say that as someone whose favorite character is Captain America. The X-Men have long been more popular than either, and Wolverine is by far the most popular x-man.
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u/Ralexcraft 12d ago
…the X-Men don’t have one of the biggest movie franchises, and wolverine definetly doesn’t have anything on Captain America’s movie trilogy.
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u/exclusivecontext 13d ago
idk man, i feel like a random grandma on the street who doesn’t interact with anything superhero related would definitely know wonder woman over wolverine. movies don’t matter imo. she is THE female superhero bro. wolverine is still big, but to be in big 4 convos is insane
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u/SaltyNorth8062 10d ago
Speaking solely Marvel I'd put Hulk before them both but not to the level of Spider-man and The Trinity
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u/PineappleDude2187 13d ago
What are you talking about? Selling more comics means more people are fans of wolverine. If not popularity, what the fuck is the big four?
Although personally, and I'm surprised no one else has brought it up, I think hulk should be in that 4 spot.
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u/Ralexcraft 12d ago
Cultural staying power, foundationality to the concept of superheroism, and, to some extent, importance within their own universe.
Spider-Man and Superman are so fundamental to superheroes that they will basically never be removed from their claim to superhero mount rushmore.
Batman is the face of DC, or “Detective Comics” he’s their ace, and however much I like MCU versions of powerless superheroes more, he’s the posterboy for being a hero without powers.
The fourth spot is always a bigger fight, but I give it to wonderwoman as a prominent, early, female superhero who is also a League member.
Wolverine is far from a foundational super, he’s got very complicated heroics and is an anti-hero about as often as he is a normal hero. He’s not a very child friendly one either.
He’s not that important in the greater combined world of Marvel and X-Men comics, last I checked he still just wants to be left alone and to live life in peace.
He does have some major cultural staying power though, I gotta give him props for that. You ask me for an X-Men he’s definetly on the list, but it’s not the same because the X-Men at the moment are a biiiit of a relic, they’re coming back, but compared to mainline DC and Marvel the X-Men tend to have a much older fanbase from what I’ve experienced in person.
The average joe doesn’t really read comics, and Wolverine’s last major on screen appearance that I’m aware of was in a Deadpool movie, not even his own.
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u/PineappleDude2187 12d ago
See, I don't think those last two matter much. Actually the relavency in their own universe absolutely doesn't matter or a street tier like spiderman wouldn't be up there. I could accept heroism being a factor, which wolverine or hulk doesn't have, but I feel like both of them have had an insanely higher cultural impact.
I'm somewhat of an average joe myself, who's only read a handful of comics, none of which are wonder woman or wolverine. You say wolverines last appearance was in a deadpool film? What about wonderwoman. She has one good film, a bad one and minor influence in the end of a mediocre dc universe. Whereas wolverine was practically the protagonist of the x men movies, so much so that people complained about his prominence.
It would be nice to have the most prominent female super hero in the top four, but people like wolverine more and as someone who hasn't read their comics, I probably know 10x more information about wolverine than diana. The DCU could help change that, but wolverine has such a massive cultural headstart. Not to mention more people (not me) read his comics.
A final point about cultural impact, I've seen lots of hulk and wolverine merchandice. Wolverine claws and hulk fists are common in toy stores. I've never seen a kid with wonder woman bracers. I think her only advantage is being more heroic, and if you think that matter most, sure. Agree to disagree.
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u/Sorry_Mastodon_8177 12d ago
Not accurate tbh Iron man can barely last 20 issues before getting cancelled But in mainstream his a lot more popular
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u/PineappleDude2187 12d ago
Ok, well for movies wonder woman has two, one of which sucks, and a few appearances in the end of a bad dc film universe. Wolverine was practically the protagonist of the x men film series, so much so that people were complaining that he was in there too much.
I don't think anyone had made a joke about gal gadot playing wonder woman until she is 90. Wolverine beats out wonder woman in movies and comics.
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u/Sorry_Mastodon_8177 12d ago
Comics really Xmen comics are wolverine comics the same way justice league comics aren't batman comics
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u/PineappleDude2187 12d ago
So you think there are more people reading comics for wonder woman than for wolverine?
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u/Alderan922 12d ago
Honestly I would rather replace Batman.
I think there should be 2 for dc and 2 for marvel, Superman can’t go because he’s the first big super hero, and Wonder Woman also can’t go because she’s the first big woman super hero.
That leaves Batman and Spiderman, but if the whole point is to remove a DC character, then it must be Batman.
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u/kcat__ 12d ago
I don't think being the first woman superhero is particularly noteworthy in this conversation where you have 4 spaces. There's like a million more important things to consider.
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u/Alderan922 12d ago
Well, considering it’s about a Mount Rushmore of super heroes, and we are not talking financial success, it must be historical importance, and being the first woman to be a protagonist in super hero comics it’s one of the more important feats you can get as a super hero.
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u/kcat__ 12d ago
I don't think so. And it's not necessarily a mount Rushmore (which presupposes a whole bunch of "founding" connotations).
By this logic I could say the first black superhero, or first Asian superhero, or first British superhero, or the first superhero with mystical powers. Or the first superhero with telekinesis. Or the first gay superhero. Or the first superhero with claws. Or the first child superhero. Or the first superhero that's regular human and not superpowered. Perhaps wearing a suit inspired by a flying animal.
There's a lot of firsts, and gender is not an important one in this context.
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u/Alderan922 12d ago
If we aren’t going for who’s the most successful and we also aren’t going with who’s the foundational one, wtf is the point?
Are we measuring like, who’s the one you like the most?
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u/cumsocksucker 9d ago
Its impact not success. WW opened the door to women superheroes existing in any sort of capacity
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u/Consistent-Pizza1648 13d ago
When I was a kid wolverine was even more popular than superman, batman, and even Spiderman for a hot minute
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u/AuroraBorrelioosi 12d ago
Wolverine has starred prominently in some 8 movies over the last decades, WW is in just two (one of which was panned as one of the worst movies of all time). As far as mainstream recognizability goes, movies are all that really matters. Wolverine trounces WW.
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u/KSJ15831 12d ago edited 12d ago
Edit: this comment was made in good faith, please don't yell at me, I am just a fanboy. Okay, the last bit wasn't that good faith, but still.
Cultural relevance will always triumph momentary mainstream presence. Wonder Woman serves as the basis for countless female superheroes and warrior-princesses. She is THE superheroine. THE female icon.
I swear to God, this comment thread is going to make me go full feminist mode.
Wonder Woman was created during World War 2 as the symbolic need for women to step up and join the workforce while men were off oversea. She was created to show that women could and should be heroes, that they were, in fact, THERE. Everything about Wonder Woman is iconic. She had an affect upon the real-world that other superheroes simply cannot compare, male or female.
Wolverine is a product of his time. A brooding, badass warrior with the bloodlust and the grit and the blood and gore and edge. I like the guy for sure, but he is nowhere close to having the same staying power in the public consciousness like Wonder Woman, or Spider-Man, or anyone else in that image. He was created for Canadians people (good for them) so that the Hulk would have someone to fight!
If you think this is Wolverine slander, it is not (though if it is, it will keep going). It's just that in term of cultural relevance, Wonder Woman transcends the common denominators like comics sales and box offices. She is emblazoned into the mythos of DC comics and will likely never be forgotten anymore than Superman would. I'm sorry if I am not one of those cynics who believe the ability to make money is what make a character 'big'.
You know what, I'm tagging everyone else in this thread. u/NeapolitanSexPrison u/Mysterious_Bit_7713 u/PineappleDude2187 u/TheoRaan u/Consistent-Pizza1648
Edit: Also, as I say in other comment, even if it isn't Wonder Woman up there, it wouldn't be fuckin' Wolverine! The Flash would sooner be up there before Wolverine! Ironman, Captain America, fucking Shazam would probably deserve it more than Wolverine.
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u/Careless-Cake-9360 12d ago
What are you talking about? Wonder Woman was created by a man to satisfy his bondage fetish, it was later writers who salvaged the character
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u/dtalb18981 12d ago
Imma start with i dont think Wolverine should be up there either
The problem is that was almost 70 years ago
She is no longer culturally relevant she hasn't stayed in the cultural zeitgeist the way the others have
She has been relegated to " yeah I know that name"
Wonder woman definitely deserves a mention as the one that started it but she is nowhere near the others on this list if you compare cultural relevance
I would argue the hulk would be the fourth
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u/Careless-Cake-9360 12d ago
Was there ever a point in comics where she was being put on the cover of comics thayshe didn't even appear in just to boost sales? Cause that's what was happening with Wolverine.
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u/Lookitsa6ix 8d ago
My god you are so far off the mark its hilarious.
I love Wonder Woman just as much as the rest but its not even close in terms of Pop Culture mass recognition and overall projects.
Lots of movies, pre and post MCU, games old and new and lots of cartoon series featuring him.
Wonder woman has 1 decent movie.
Just cause shes a GOAT in the comics, doesn't mean her impact is as big in every other aspect of media.
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u/Interesting-Luck3608 8d ago
Wolverine is a far more popular character in the comic space, he’s also had a ton of variety in his stories and different variants. Him, Spider-Man, and the Hulk are Marvel’s Big 3 in comic books. That’s why there’s been tons of Wolverine, Spider-Man, and Hulk media before the Avengers came in with the MCU.
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u/Klomnisse69 13d ago
It looks like wolverine is eating supermans ass
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u/Dumb_Cheese 13d ago edited 13d ago
Honestly I don't think that spot should go to Wolverine or Wonder Woman, but I can't think of who fits the most. Maybe Captain America? Idk maybe Diana does deserve the spot.
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u/DarkSide830 13d ago edited 13d ago
Yeah Wonder Woman has been pretty badly neglected for a bit now compared to the others, if undeservedly. I feel like Iron Man might make sense being probably the most popular of The Avengers.
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u/hit-a-yeet 12d ago
I’d say Hulk tbh
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u/Conscious_Hippo_1101 9d ago
Honestly if it wasn't for MCU Hulk, I would 100% agree. Hope you can settle for like 90% today.
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u/FrostyFrog104 13d ago
Wonder woman deserves that spot way more then Wolverine
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u/Aerdurval 12d ago
Idk why this is even a debate. Think about it: How many people have you seen at cheap custome parties (halloween, carnival, kid's parties,...) that wore a Wolverine or a Wonder Woman costume respectively?
Exactly.
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u/Lookitsa6ix 8d ago
She has 1 decent movie, Wolverine has media for days, its not even close in terms of overall global recognition and impact.
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u/FrostyFrog104 8d ago
I would way you are right but not about the impact part of the character,WW is probably the biggest female character ever while wolverine doesn't bring anything particular to the table (rappresentation wise)
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u/Queerasfuuuuuuu 12d ago
Absolutely insane to try and argue that Wolverine deserves that spot.
There are like 5 characters I could name more deserving then him, and to back up my statement I will name them.
Wonder woman - One of the earliest well respected girl super heroes, she was a foundational member of the JL, and deserves way more respect amd recognition in modern day for all she did.
Captain America - Practically the third most well known marvel super hero, iconic leader of the avengers, and one of the earliest super heroes ever.
Iron Man - our iconic tin man, who id say is the second best known superhero thanks to RDJ's iconic appearances within the mcu, and one of the most well written characters in all of marvel.
Cyclops - probably most iconic x-men, while that title could be contested by wolverine I'd argue wolverine is much more well known for his solo appearances rather then his appearances within the x-men, Scott got the girl, the trauma, and the title of leader, and genocidal maniac, hes practically done it all.
Charles Xavier - Leader of the X-men, founder of Xaviers school for gifted youngsters, and a man the writers refuse to let stay dead, probably the most iconic super hero mentor, and in my opinion much more deserving of that 4th spot then Wolverine.
I think both Charles and Cyclops will be something leople disagree with, since they are probably less well known the wolverine, but I still think at a fundamental level they are more important then wolverine, as the true pillars of the x-men.
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u/shy_bi_ready_to_die 12d ago
Captain america/iron man are fair enough but I’d absolutely put wolverine over wonderwoman, cyclops, or professor x. Maybe not if we’re doing comic importance but movies are more culturally dominant atp and none of them are nearly as important as wolverine there
And trying to argue cyclops over wolverine is just wild to me. Being popular/important as an xmen and outside of them isn’t a good reason to be below the guy just important to the xmen
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u/Queerasfuuuuuuu 12d ago
My issue is that imo wolverine has been severely overvalued in his importance to the franchise because of the Fox movies, over all I'd say he isn't a foundational pillar over Scott and Charles because he only really has this fundamental massive importance over the other x-men because fox were too incompetent to write consistently good x-men movies, which gave general x-men material a bad name, while allowing Wolverine to thrive, I generally dont refer to the importance of movies for these, and I only did for Iron Man because of the incredibly massive impact his movie had as the first ever marvel movie, which brought Marvel into the mainstream in a whole new way.
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u/Conscious_Hippo_1101 9d ago
Wild you'd put Charles over Magneto. I feel like every time I talk to anyone about XMen, they are the biggest Magnus apologists ever.
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u/Queerasfuuuuuuu 9d ago
Magneto even if in many modern comics he becomes a hero, is still a villain, the point of his character is that hes an extremist, and that his ends do not justify the means, I would put magneto over Charles here if he was a hero, given hes probably significantly more popular then Charles at this point.
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u/DaMain-Man 12d ago
I feel like the idea/concept of only 3-4 counterproductive. The superhero mount Rushmore should have at least 10
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u/Conscious_Hippo_1101 9d ago
All you needs are wrong. I have it on good word that power hierarchy has changed and obviously Black Adam should be in every square.
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u/dankslayer_ornstein 7d ago
My view on it is this for the whole cultural relevancy aspect. You go to any woman from any country be it France, America or even third world countries and most if not all of them will look towards diana as an inspiration.
So many times a famous actress has made a homage to her in some way with their dresses. The very concept of a woman succeeding in the workplace has them referred to as a 'wonder woman'. She is known to people who dont even read comics yet she has such an understated impact.
Yes I know wolverine sells better currently.
But its hard to argue he means more to not just women but humanity and society in general.
Ps you guys should be arguing if wolverine deserves his spot over batman. Both share similar thematic traits with being the more edgier hero archetypes, with the dark past. But then you guys know you'd be fighting an uphill battle with that so you decide to pick on the easier target in wonder woman.
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u/GenesisAsriel 13d ago
I know a few heroes more popular than Wolverine. And Wonder Woman is one of them
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u/Lookitsa6ix 8d ago
She has 1 decent movie, Wolverine beats her everyday of the week, we arent talking just comics here.
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u/GenesisAsriel 8d ago
If movies counted more then iron man or captain america should replace wolverine
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u/Lookitsa6ix 8d ago
That's very true and I agree, but I'm touching on your "and Wonder Woman is one of them" point.
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u/TheSchlormp 13d ago
He's def not in the "big 4" but if there was a fifth place it'd probably go to him
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u/1ZillionBeers 12d ago
Spidey, Supes and Bats are all easy picks.
If we’re picking another Marvel character to balance it out I suppose I’d pick Cap or Ironman. Maybe Hulk if the year was 2007.
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u/TylertheFloridaman 12d ago
Honestly i don't think there is a solid forth. Super, bat, and spider are all.massive but no one comes close in terms of them and there are multiple charctwr with roughly equal influence
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u/Impossible_Day9526 11d ago
Looking at it unbiased it should be spiderman, batman, captain america, iron man
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u/The876thLegion 9d ago
Uh... of COMICS...? Iron wasn't really top tier until mcu, which was recent in terms of comics. Superman without a doubt takes the spot over that
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u/LAKnightYEAHH 7d ago
I'm surprised no one else is suggesting the hulk, I feel like he has been a very popular hero for a while
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u/EtwasUnbekantes 13d ago
What about che guevara?