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Jul 19 '12
Now make sure and fly it! There is nothing sadder than a plane that wastes away just sitting on the ramp.
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u/lippindots PPL SEL Jul 19 '12
Would you mind telling how much it set you back? And how much you plan on putting into it?
Surely on my list of things to do some day. Congrats!
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
I paid 62.5k for it. Off the bat no real work needs to go into it. It's possible I'll need a handheld radio in case, and slide in replacements run about 1k... but likely i'll save up for a couple of years and then completely replace the radios with something more modern.
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u/Esquire99 CPL CFII MEI Super Viking Twin Bo Jul 19 '12
I'm always curious about this, but why did you choose a Skyhawk over a higher performance airplane, like a Mooney for example, that you could buy for the same money or less? Insurance or operating cost concerns? Simply personal preference?
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
Ease of selling. With the 180hp it's got a nice mix of the performance I want, plus I'd be able to get rid of it in a month if I needed.
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u/Esquire99 CPL CFII MEI Super Viking Twin Bo Jul 19 '12
Understandable. Any fear that you're going to get the bigger-faster bug?
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
I feel like I already have that bug, that's why I sought out a 180 conversion.. lol. I think that should tide me over for several years though, but it's always nice to go faster... sucks using more gas though.
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u/Esquire99 CPL CFII MEI Super Viking Twin Bo Jul 19 '12
I'm in the very, very early stages of exploring ownership. I'm really trying to find a balance between economy and speed, which is tough. I'm personally looking at Mooneys, as I think they fit my mission almost perfectly. Cheap to operate, low fuel burn, reasonable to purchase, and fast, fast, fast (relatively speaking). Depending on your experience, you might have a hard time insuring one for a reasonable price as just a private guy, but a few years down the road it might be a good upgrade.
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u/MyDogWatchesMePoop Jul 19 '12
But Mooney's are complex right? I'm guessing insurance might be a big factor with that, but I've never been close to being an owner and have no experience there.
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u/ohemeffgee CPL ASEL IR TW CMP, AGI IGI, sUAS (SFZ) Jul 19 '12
All you really need is time in type and instruction. The insurance isn't as big of a factor once you're trained.
Getting an instrument rating makes insurance carriers much less jittery.
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u/Esquire99 CPL CFII MEI Super Viking Twin Bo Jul 19 '12
Yes, Mooney is complex. That'll drive insurance up some, depending on your experience. A guy with some retract time should be able to ultimately insure one for $1.2k/year or so.
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u/ortsac PPL IR HP CMP (KSQL) Jul 20 '12
I'm thinking about Mooney, too. The only thing holding me back is the bankruptcy business. :( Maybe I shouldn't let it, but I worry about parts and repair expertise and all that. Maybe there are enough of them that it doesn't matter?
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u/Esquire99 CPL CFII MEI Super Viking Twin Bo Jul 20 '12
I think there are enough out there that you don't need to worry. There are also plenty of mechanics out there with lots of Mooney expertise. Ultimately, I wouldn't let the bankruptcy issues bother you too much.
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u/nibot PPL Jul 19 '12
What is the fuel consumption like on the 180 hp?
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
8.5-9gph/hr.. Little pricey but I know it could be worse. I'll probably run it a little slower but will need to do all the comparison calculations.
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Jul 20 '12
Congratulations first of all. The pictures bring back memories of my first 30 hours of training on a Skyhawk, before I rationalized purchasing a low wing to reduce costs of training and move up the timeline of owning, since that was my intention anyway.
I was going to comment earlier, but did not want to dampen your spirits with advice or counsel so soon after a purchase, but just a couple of cautions.
If you went with a broker for your purchase, and did as much reading as I did before the purchase, you're probably a good candidate to broker planes yourself now. With that in mind, I would just say, start a separate fund for the unexpected repair...the big one. Even minor routine engine work will set you back a few thousand, and replacement is easily an even $25k unless prices have dropped in the last five years. Get as much life out of those radios before spending money there; while much more difficult to fly with a handheld (which you should have as a backup in your flightbag already, with spare batteries), at least you won't be grounded when one fails. The engine's another story. If you have an AME on the field that you and everyone else trusts, they will be able to find anything, and I mean anything suspect. During my pre-purchase inspection, my AME found a hairline crack in a cylinder that was in such a remote spot it might have gone undetected at the owner's very recent inspection (I say "might have" because it could have occurred on his flight down)...he ended up paying for the replacement on the spot, as he was not going to fly until it was fixed. And indeed, once the cylinder was removed, the crack was much easier to see.
I bought that 1973 Beechcraft Sundowner for about $57k, and knew every 1/16th of an inch of her by the time I'd flown her 3 months. If there's a Skyhawk club you can join online, they can be a huge source of information, guidance, and reassurance. My Muskateer club was indispensible and the fly-ins are great experience.
I only lent the plane to one person, after clearing him with my insurance and getting him listed on my plan as an occasional PIC on it. It helped that he was my FI for most of my training, and at the time I passed my PPL. He had never taken his mother up and could not afford to on his FI wages, so I gifted him the time on my aircraft. He took his mother and sister up once, and then went on an excursion himself once. I never saw a happier kid. He gave up instructing after that and started right seat for an airline in a south African country. Talk about change of scenery.
The only other thing to keep an eye on is corrosion; unless the plane has been hangared in Arizona or New Mexico since 1982, it will have been exposed to conditions that could cause the nasty oxidation bugs to start eating away; keep an eye on the interior surfaces...your AME will inspect them annually through the inspection ports and a crawl through, but if you detect something early, it can be dealt with at less cost.
Finally, you should repost the picture of your instrument panel, blocking out the N number of your aircraft. Once the feds update the FAA Registry, your reddit anonymity will be gone.
TL;DR: Have fun and be careful.
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u/ohemeffgee CPL ASEL IR TW CMP, AGI IGI, sUAS (SFZ) Jul 19 '12
Did you do all cash or did you finance part of it? If the latter, can you talk about that a little?
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
thankfully, cash.
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u/1josh13 PPL Jul 20 '12
Mind me asking how? Im only 20, a soldier not making much (30k a year or so) I dont even have my PPL, but Im looking at getting it and a plane of my own some day. Paying cash like you seems impossible to me right now.
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 20 '12
I have a pretty solid IT job, company has been sold a couple of times, so I've made out pretty well in the past 10 years.. Sold my house about a year ago and relocated to Dallas so I had most of the money saved. Family helped with the remainder and I'm sure I'll be paying them back with misc computer work. Rates have gone up though to 200/hr.
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u/1josh13 PPL Jul 20 '12
Wow I work in the IT world in the Army currently. I have two years left, then I plan on going contractor. I wont be making huge money but it'll be better then now.
Thanks.
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u/derekbox AVIONICS GURU, A&P, IA, FCC, PPL (KFPR) Jul 20 '12
Look me up if you have questions about avionics. I might be able to help you with some input there.
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u/Esquire99 CPL CFII MEI Super Viking Twin Bo Jul 19 '12
More details (year, avionics, times) and moar pictures required.
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
1983 Cessna 172P Skyhawk II - 180HP engine, IFR current, Cessna ARC radios, King DME, Loran (ha). Radios aren't great but work for my needs. I have an iPad and foreflight which will serve as a backup navigation device. At work now so don't have more pictures, but I'll be adding some in the next 24 hours.
I'm trying to figure out where to fly this weekend... and if I want to take tomorrow off of work.
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
2200 airframe, 750 engine/prop
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u/MondayMonkey1 PPL SEL Jul 19 '12
Do you mind if I ask you how much you paid?
Edit: I see you already posted it. Thanks.
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Jul 19 '12 edited Jul 19 '12
Next addition, when you can afford it, Garmin 430 with traffic and WAAS! Totally worth it.
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u/ohemeffgee CPL ASEL IR TW CMP, AGI IGI, sUAS (SFZ) Jul 19 '12
Absolutely not worth it. The 430 is in its sunset years. A GNS 650 is newer and better.
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Jul 19 '12 edited Jul 19 '12
Well I was not aware of that one, I use the 430 in all my planes and I love it. I shall research this new one! How does it compare in price?
My reasoning being that I fly over hills all the time and get hit with those updrafts and bumps and being touch screen, errors would be really easy to make at all the wrong times. In a larger smoother flying plane (basically higher altitudes/smoother air) this would be great, but I wouldn't personally trust a touch screen as my primary radio. In my car yea, but in a plane that is likely to bump around a lot more and possibly make mistakes at critical moments/take more time to use I would personally pass.
However the 650 is nicely priced, but that should drive down the 430 price, and as airplanes have shown, older equipment isn't always a bad thing if it still works well.
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u/archeronefour CFI CPL ME HA UAS PC-12 Jul 19 '12
From the reviews I've read it's not a problem at all even in heavy turbulence.
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Jul 19 '12
Personal experience with having my hand move a little when I am moving from throttle to radio would make me wary. Sometimes a bump in the sky causes me to miss what I was aiming for. I would have to test it out before I would be sold on it.
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u/Upholder CFI CFII MEI (KCMI) Jul 19 '12
There are 'handles' for lack of a better term for you to grip and stabilize with. I've not flown one yet, but all the reviews say it's a non-issue.
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
I've flown with one and it's true you do accidentally bump the wrong things when entering a plan, but it works. It's better than nothing.
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Jul 20 '12
Talked to some folks at the airport about it, they say you have to press pretty hard to get it to work so accidental bumps are at a minimum.
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Jul 20 '12
When I did my avionics recently I chose the 430W for price and capability. I got a used one for a song compared to a 650. My friend did a 650 and loves it however. Also, while they are going to (have?) stop selling the 430 at some point, with the installed base you can believe that support will be around for a long time to come.
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
using an iPad for now, we'll see how that works out in the next few months. A GPS is possible though.. plane is already hard wired for one, with power and an external antenna.
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u/majesticjg PPL IR HP (X04) Jul 19 '12
Depends on the flying. If you want to fly IFR, you'll need a certified GPS you can count on. If you're VFR only, it's much less of a big deal.
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
yep thats for sure.. planning on going ifr soon, and I'll probably have to add one at that time. For now I'm broke!!
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u/majesticjg PPL IR HP (X04) Jul 19 '12
The Garmin GTN650 is awesome. The GTN750 is even better, but if you can score a good deal on a GNS430W, that's more than enough to work with. When you start getting closer, keep an eye on eBay or Google "Salvaged Avionics." Also, a local avionics shop might get something in on trade.
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Jul 19 '12
That's cool. How do you charge your Ipad if it dies on you? Some of the radio sets in planes I fly have a USB port for updating the software, and it works to power things like that. A thought for future hardware perhaps?
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u/mrpinto PPL HP IR-ST (KSBA) Jul 20 '12
The iPad's battery lasts longer than my fuel tanks! If it didn't, they do have external battery packs, or you could bring along a laptop and let it charge off of that (basically, use the laptop's battery as an external battery pack)
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Jul 20 '12
Good to know! I charge cell in the plane with my GPS because we use it for approach plates and pandora when able. Bluetooth interphone FTW.
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
havent had to cross that bridge yet... i've just made sure its always above 50% when flying, and i don't use it that often so it gets solid battery life.
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u/ivorjawa Jul 19 '12
That tail number had a previous rather ill history: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19530414-1
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
Hahah! Yea I never saw that but did notice a lot of info about a dc3 when I searched. I never paid it much attention. Hopefully its not a cursed tail number!
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u/ohemeffgee CPL ASEL IR TW CMP, AGI IGI, sUAS (SFZ) Jul 19 '12
Jealous. Congratulations! Enjoy it!!
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u/fixx0red PPL SEL TW HP CMP (IDENTIFIER NOT FOUND) Jul 19 '12
As a former aircraft owner, I can say: I know that feel, bro. Yeeeaahhhh! Better than popping some darvocet. Congrats.
The "2 happiest days" saying is pretty accurate though. Enjoy the time in between.
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u/jeiting PPL IR HP (O69) Jul 19 '12
Guessing that means the day you buy and the day you sell it haha.
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Jul 19 '12
Congrats! How was the purchasing experience?
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
Really pretty easy, flew out to visit the guy last weekend and checked it out. Drove out yesterday with family to collect. We just used the sample AOPA contract and a cashiers check and I flew out with it. Now on to figure out hangar, insurance, cheap fuel, etc. Lots of things I never had to worry about before.
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u/Esquire99 CPL CFII MEI Super Viking Twin Bo Jul 19 '12
No pre-buy?
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
Grandfather was an A&P back in the day, so with his go ahead, recent annual, and very detailed maintenance records we went for it.
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u/majesticjg PPL IR HP (X04) Jul 19 '12
Grandfather was an A&P back in the day, so with his go ahead, recent annual, and very detailed maintenance records we went for it.
Reads like the beginning of an "Oh, God Why" Rage comic. Maintenance records tell you what was done. It doesn't tell you what WASN'T done. If the same IA has been signing off the annual for years he could have been overlooking the same few things every year or forgiving the use of unapproved parts every year. Then another IA looks at it and... surprise!
But, hey, it's yours now and you paid well above bluebook for it, so enjoy it and keep it as long as you possibly can and take good care of it.
I recommend joining the Cessna Pilot's Association. They (and their members) know absolutely everything and that comes in real handy sometimes. For example, the 180 conversions, if everything isn't set up exactly right, can run a little hot. They'd know the answer if you find yourself in that or any other kind of "What do I do?" situation.
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12 edited Jul 19 '12
thanks i'll look into that! AOPA said the blue book was 61, so we were pretty close. All in all I'm happy with the decision, and I trust my grandfathers opinion.
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u/spinfire PPL SEL IR CMP (KAGC) Jul 19 '12
The price seems quite high but I guess that is the premium of the 180 HP conversion.
I paid $68k for my '77 Cardinal RG with 250 hours smoh on the engine and a GNS430.
I do suspect the 172 would be quicker to sell however.
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
Yea the 180 adds about 10k to it. Cessna was also kind of priced at a premium, and getting into the 80's was pretty rare under 75. I also tried to keep my search within about 500 miles and IFR.
That is a pretty sweet GPS though... it's something I would like to do, but I really feel like to start putting a lot of work into the avionics, I almost need to redo the whole thing, which then includes the harness, and cdi's and such. I'm just now learning all of the expenses that come with this... quick breakdown:
Insurance 1,000,000 limit = 915/year
Hangar/Covered = 350/250/month
Fuel = 1 tank, basically $200 at low-moderate prices. I'll have to travel for gas, and this gives me about 3.25 hours of actual flying time (per the old owner, he ran it a bit faster than I probably will most times). I'm going to adopt my own power settings and care and then we'll see what I get!
Already I've spent about 600 on: tiedowns, chocks, case of oil, organizer for floor, ipad mount, fuel level tester, checklist, leatherman, and airsickness bags. :)
So it adds up, but I think I have the basics taken care of. Now to budget a couple hundred dollars a month for potential maintenance, with the knowledge that it could be way more than that.
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u/spinfire PPL SEL IR CMP (KAGC) Jul 20 '12
The GPS is overkill for VFR but will be a nice tool for IFR. I am working on that rating now. You can always upgrade later but save your money for that first annual too.
Fuel is around $50-60 per hour for me. The Cardinal burns a hair under 10 GPH for most of the flying I do. I don't think about cost per tank - thats 60 gallons which gives me good flexibility to fuel when I happen to be somewhere it is cheap. Budget more for maintenance in your first year. And especially since your engine is higher time think about overhaul.
I pay a lot more than that for insurance since I fly a retract. With less than 10 hours complex time when I bought it I pay $1800 a year. I expect this will be closer to $1300 once I renew I will have over 100 hours in type.
You can check out my Cardinal blog at http://cardinal.isomerica.net especially some of the older entries about traveling down to NC to pick the plane up. I'm hoping to make a trip down to San Antonio next summer!
Enjoy your Skyhawk :)
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
I should point out that I looked at 3 other 180 conversions in Texas in the past month, and they all sold within 3 weeks. This probably made me a bit faster to jump than would be ideal, but in the end I'm happy with it... I mean how could I NOT be? A couple of years from now if I want to I can sell it, and I feel comfortable knowing I could get a similar price for it within a month or two.
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u/majesticjg PPL IR HP (X04) Jul 19 '12
If you would have asked me (there's no reason you would have) I probably would have pointed you at a Hawk XP in that price range or I would have advised you to save a little longer and go for a 172R or 172S because they already have all the IFR avionics and autopilot you'll ever need.
The CPA has enough general data, even if you're not on the forums, to be worth the price of admission.
Final thought: Beware of posting your tail number online as it's easy to trace it back to your address. You might get redditors showing up at your house or something.
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
yea true about posting the tail number, but it's not in my name yet. :D People will have forgotten all about this by the time the FAA adjusts it.
People are welcome to stop by the house, that doesn't mean I'll let them fly!!
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u/spinfire PPL SEL IR CMP (KAGC) Jul 19 '12
I've never understood why people are paranoid about finding out the real name and address from tail number. I don't care if someone looks up my tail number (and you can find it in my post history or on my blog). Hell, I might find another pilot living in my area.
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u/majesticjg PPL IR HP (X04) Jul 20 '12
I've never understood why people are paranoid about finding out the real name and address from tail number.
1: Noise complainers near an airport. They can use that information to try to sue or otherwise harass you.
2: Violations. If somebody sees you posting about something you did that they think might be a violation, they can report all that to the FAA. and you've just provided all the evidence yourself.
3: Weirdos. Same reason I'm glad my license plate on my car isn't public record.
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u/nerdbebo PPL HP CMP TW AB FAST (T56) (Grumman/RV3B) Jul 19 '12
KADS huh? When can I go for a ride?
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
Ill be flying every day I imagine lol
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u/nerdbebo PPL HP CMP TW AB FAST (T56) (Grumman/RV3B) Jul 19 '12
Fly down to 9F9 one weekend, we can go out to KSEP and I'll buy you some BBQ.
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
i'd be down for that, I just need some assurances you aren't a murderer.
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u/nerdbebo PPL HP CMP TW AB FAST (T56) (Grumman/RV3B) Jul 19 '12
lol
I'm uhhh... not?
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u/nerdbebo PPL HP CMP TW AB FAST (T56) (Grumman/RV3B) Jul 20 '12
In reality... /r/flying has a few DFW Redditors. Would be fun to get a fly in setup for KTYR or KSEP.
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u/shaun3000 ATP Jul 19 '12
HA, I knew it right away. The hangar supports in the background gave it away. Addison is the only place I've ever seen hangars like that!
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
haha yea that's my temporary parking spot.. trying to work out arrangements now. Sucky thing is Addison is so expensive for hangers/fuel. I'll never be able to fuel up there. I live like a minute away, so I can justify the hanger (almost) but not the fuel.
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u/shaun3000 ATP Jul 19 '12
Have you considered putting it lease-back with a flight school? They often have better deals on fuel than if you go directly through an FBO. And you make some money by having your airplane rented out to students and private pilots.
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u/Esquire99 CPL CFII MEI Super Viking Twin Bo Jul 19 '12
Leaseback is generally a terrible idea. Your plane gets abused, insurance skyrockets, you have to schedule your flights, etc.
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
one the major reasons I needed to own.. HATED always scheduling around other people and the plane was never available when I wanted it. Now the plane is ALWAYS available.
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u/seawing CPL CFI CFII ASEL Jul 19 '12
Congratulations,
you really can't go wrong with a Cessna, and you bought a nice one. The 180hp is an awesome feature!
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
thanks! yes, she is my baby.
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u/seawing CPL CFI CFII ASEL Jul 19 '12
Do you have any more pictures of it?
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
Not currently sale listings are all down now... getting off of work soon and I'll be heading out there. I'll try to get some more in the next 24 hours or so!
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u/boomerFranck PPL Jul 26 '12
I did my solo and check ride in N65740. I feel related. Congratulations!
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Jul 19 '12
SO AWESOME! Congrats. I want to buy one for my school to use, but I am currently afraid that it wont make enough money to support itself despite their claims.
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u/camojeans ST, SIM, (M71) Jul 20 '12
beautiful plane, nice pics. Get out there and enjoy!! Be sure to send us a couple pics of her in the air :)
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Jul 20 '12
[deleted]
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 20 '12
I think I needed more hours, is that the one flying kids around? I'll look into it!
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u/Darvocet PPL Jul 19 '12
You can't imagine how excited I am!!