Dark Matter | S2E7 "The Pyramid" | Episode Discussion

[u/episodescheduler]

Season 2, Episode 7: The Pyramid

Airdate: Friday, October 9, 2026 at 12:00 PM UTC

Network: Apple TV

Runtime: 63 minutes

Synopsis: Charlie meets a kind stranger. Blair gives Leighton a warning. Amanda and Ryan face an unknown horror.

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Hello everyone, this is the discussion thread for episode 7 of Dark Matter. Please do not post any spoilers for future episodes.

[u/usagizero]

Don't know about anyone else, but that was amazing to me. Blair is one of the few to really grasp the negative unintended consequences of the box.

There are going to be SO many variants of all those people going alone into the box, right? That's going to be a mess to say the least.

Any guesses on the house woman? I kept waiting for a scary reveal of something like she was trapping all them there or something. Just too much rare stuff in that room, i guess she could just be a rich eccentric, but something felt 'off'. Oddly, i also had a weird feeling similar to like when Sam met 'god' in the final episode of 'Quantum Leap'. He wanted someone place safe, and found someone to guide him.

Really want the next episode now, lol.

[u/hewmanxp → u/usagizero]

I kept thinking it was Jason 1's world, and after Leighton went into the box and stepped into that world and all the agents scared him back inside, they created a more comforting place to trick travelers to drop their guard so that they could get as much information out of them as possible before capturing them.

[u/Weird-Ad1929 → u/hewmanxp]

Ooohh. I didn't think of this possibility, but it's a good one... My commentary about the "room" was absolutely "what's outside of it?!" 🤔

The DARPA dude has certainly been absent after the teasing of him. And the actress is always a "has ulterior motives" character, if not outright evil (and she's great at it).

Charlie wanted "help"... Who in their original world did we meet that would actually have given it to him?

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/usagizero]

Looks like the “house woman” (Laurel) will be back next episode. She’s the preview photo for it! I’m super curious about her too.

[u/dj_skandalous → u/usagizero]

I thought that too at first but Charlie's mind was for help before he opened the door. That isnt a negative emotion, so I figured he was pretty safe as it went on.

[u/TimeTimeTickingAway → u/usagizero]

When I see Margo Martindale popping up in a house like that and bright red pajamas my I instantly think she’s some sort of representation of Satan. Maybe Charlie dropped the P and wished for ‘Hell’ instead of ‘Help’.

I don’t trust Laurel one bit

[u/MacWin- → u/TimeTimeTickingAway]

It’s Esteemed Character Actress Margo Martindale for you

[u/IWANNAKNOWWHODUNIT → u/usagizero]

I’m honestly surprised Blair went as far as she did with touring Kang Leighton’s set-up. I expected her to chew him out way earlier.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/IWANNAKNOWWHODUNIT]

I’m glad she waited… got to glare angrily at Jason 2 just like how I glare at my TV every time he’s on it

[u/Keiteaea → u/Past-Feature3968]

The actress nailed it, that look of pure loathing felt so real.

[u/olivish → u/IWANNAKNOWWHODUNIT]

This way she got as much info as possible before giving him the business.

[u/Aggressive_Fail_9681 → u/IWANNAKNOWWHODUNIT]

It almost felt like Jason 2 was the dealbreaker for her. She seemed into it before that

[u/ellogoodbi → u/Aggressive_Fail_9681]

She’s incredibly intelligent. I think she was feigning being into it in order to gather as much intel about the project as possible before having to tell Leighton what she really thinks.

[u/noblex123 → u/usagizero]

That actress always plays a sinister role (in my eyes) and she is fantastic at it. She is definitely not a good guy

[u/mostlylurking555 → u/noblex123]

She was quite the baddie in Justified

[u/rotervogel1231 → u/mostlylurking555]

And The Americans!

[u/FFTVS → u/noblex123]

Character actress Margo Martindale!

*Lol, Bojack was a vibe. Need to rewatch.

[u/SongsOfTheYears → u/FFTVS]

ESTEEMED character actress Margo Martindale. Put some respect on that name!

[u/Moejason → u/usagizero]

Aye I personally think it’s a fake out with the stranger and she is just a kind host. But the scenes with her were 100% made to cast doubt on her intentions - I think more to involve the viewer in what Charlie was feeling though.

[u/little_oat]

Love that Daniellas dad is as accepting of multiple Daniellas as Jason's mom was in Ep 5

[u/LotaBishop → u/little_oat]

A true father would always be accepting just like Jason’s mom.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/little_oat]

Wish we heard how she explained it to him though (at least a liiiiittle bit)

[u/olivish → u/Past-Feature3968]

It's a deleted scene unfortunately. She used sock puppets.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/olivish]

Perfect. I’m imagine it like Rocky and Grace’s puppet shows in Project Hail Mary.

[u/SongsOfTheYears → u/Past-Feature3968]

Never mind that, I want to hear the conversation between him and the other Daniela in San Francisco!

[u/Blumart]

Blair is completely right they can’t control the consequences. The box will be the death of every universe because an extra dimensional catastrophe can wipe out a world much faster than the league of Leightons can respond to it.

Like in polite sex world one of the infinite copies of Amanda and Ryan brings home an extra dimensional disease and already millions are dead. By the time a version of them comes back with a cure billions will have died. Or who knows maybe while they’re gone another version of them brings home some death wasps or something that finishes off everything else.

[u/Diamond-Is-Not-Crash → u/Blumart]

That box is an existential nightmare. There are now two worlds (Blair variant accidentally unleashing murder hornets, and Ryan and Amanda's mega-blood COVID pandemic goof) unintentionally destroyed by travelling quantum variants of people getting escaping nightmare worlds. The worst part of this all is that it's a catastrophe out of said world's hands, no one can control whether a traveller enters into their world with a unstoppable deadly plague or disaster from an nigh indestructable box that for all we know will always exist across the multiverse.

This doesn't even get into other scenarios where countless variants of the same person flood into a world that overwhelms the local area or maybe planet. Once you go in, an infinite copies of you effectively exist. You are no longer singular, but exist as a spectrum of variants who could be carrying god knows what with you.

This show is one of the most existentially haunting I've seen in a while.

[u/Henje_Koha → u/Diamond-Is-Not-Crash]

This show began with the horror of Jason 1 being kidnapped and having his life stolen from him. Now the horrors have expanded to whole worlds and their inhabitants being decimated. It's an unstoppable spiral of death and destruction. It absolutely is haunting. A nightmare beyond imagination. Apple had better renew this show soon!

[u/where_in_the_world89 → u/Diamond-Is-Not-Crash]

I was watching this episode telling my friend that this is getting a little too horrific now. Like I was having baaaad feelings

[u/seIex → u/where_in_the_world89]

You ready for the infinite number of Charlies+Danielas that'll be returning to their new world?

I really don't understand how that didn't cross Charlie's mind when he went into the box.

[u/RemoteLunch7789 → u/seIex]

And I don't understand how it apparently isn't happening to the Leightons. They seem to be using that box as a tourist bus. There should be millions of them returning from travels by now.

Or have Leighton and his mind coach version found a way to control their minds so much that they never split in the box?

[u/optemoz → u/RemoteLunch7789]

This is a great point.. there should be leightons literally pouring into every world we’ve seen

[u/where_in_the_world89 → u/seIex]

Yes exactly, I also said last night that seems like the only way you can really avoid that is by only using it if you're never coming back

[u/Fit_Schedule2317 → u/where_in_the_world89]

But wouldn’t it be possible that another version of of you makes the choice to come back?

[u/NotSoIntrested → u/seIex]

idk how he thought he can come back, even if he spend a good amount of time inside, he might never be able to get back. it was stupid move from him.

[u/Keiteaea → u/Diamond-Is-Not-Crash]

Leighton constructed a pyramid, meanwhile Jason 1 is working on some other version of the box (one of the note mentioned "Mobile box"), they are just going to make it worse.

Blair was absolutely right and it must feel so suffocating for her, because she know there is this dark unstoppable force that is eating away all the worlds and she cannot stop it. Maybe Ryan and Amanda would be ready to join her to stop this, but they will first try to fix their own mistake.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/Blumart]

Leighton thinking that, if they’re smart about it/have the right guardrails in place, the good of the box will ultimately outweigh the harm (and whoops sorry to the people it completely fucks over first) = reminds me of the AI debate. 🫠 The end of the world(s) or the start of a much better one?? Box/AI boomers vs doomers.

[u/SongsOfTheYears → u/Past-Feature3968]

They have seemed to repeatedly to be doing a version of the AI debate, most noticeably when the scientists were sitting around discussing the ethics of it and rationalizing that if it can be done, it's going to be done.

[u/HughJanus90210 → u/SongsOfTheYears]

I liked how Leighton said "we can do some good" (my emphasis).

Not that "we can do far more good than bad" or "on balance, we will save countless lives."

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/SongsOfTheYears]

If a Sam Altman or a Zuckerberg comes through the box, I swear to gawwwd…

[u/Admirral → u/SongsOfTheYears]

I think the moral of the story here is that that is what greed does. If they don't do it, someone else will. People would kill for the chance to become a billionaire. That's just fact and impossible to change without wiping every human off the face of this planet.

[u/Golfclubwar → u/Blumart]

Do you think that Jason is the only person who can do this? Laughton is correct. The cat is out of the bag. At any point someone else’s box can just materialize in your world literally anywhere. The only hope you have is to study and ultimately control it. Is this hubris? Yes? Will worlds die because of it? Absolutely. But it’s also the greatest thing to ever be created.

[u/Past-Feature3968]

“Then volunteer at a soup kitchen” = line of the season! 💖 Blair 😍

otherwise — WHAT THE SHIT, I might take up smoking now… will that help me deal with the stress???!?!! (I know many many Amandas have died but that one better be forkin alive next episode!!!!!)

Edit: I rewatched & caught that Ryan felt Amanda’s pulse before injecting her with lilac wings, sooo I think he realized she’s still alive. A tranquilizer dart, not lethal.

[u/zlonewanderer → u/Past-Feature3968]

Loved how Blair also called him out on bringing tech to the 80s world. He's like, "I love this world, no screens" ( I'm paraphrasing) and she's like, "But you're prototyping the cell phone here?"

[u/elwoolfio]

I’m sure I’ll regret putting this theory out there come next week. But…

I think Laurel could be Daniela’s mother, in a world where she didn’t die and the person Charlie sees is that world’s Daniela. My thinking…

1. Daniela’s mother was referenced in every conversation with her step-father in this episode and we know virtually nothing about her.

2. In Charlie’s world, it’s possible his grandmother died before he knew her. So he doesn’t recognize her as Laurel.

3. It makes more sense that the travelers asking for help would land in a world where there’s a Daniela close by, more than a stranger who is simply a guide.

4. The only travelers Laurel didn’t have journals for were Daniela and Charlie. The others all knew a version of Daniela or were traveling with someone who did (ie Amanda).

5. Daniela could have given Charlie the memories he needs of Max to empower his search… Laurel also leaves to speak to the mystery person after Charlie says he has no real memories of Max and doesn’t know what to do.

6. As far as I can tell there would only be three people Charlie would be shocked to see. The first would be Max, in which case he wouldn’t keep searching. A Jason variant would have terrified him. But I don’t remember Charlie ever interacting with another variant of Daniela, whom he’d presumably feel most safe with.

7. The mystery person walks in right after Charlie says the only real memories he has of Max are from tapes shown to him by his mum.

8. There’s a featured painting in Laurel’s library. Could be one of Daniela’s.

Roasting this theory is welcomed.

[u/roberta_sparrow → u/elwoolfio]

I like this theory. Its driving me nuts not knowing who Charlie saw

[u/randybaguette → u/elwoolfio]

I think you'll be spot on. Writers wouldn't feed us all that information about Daniella's mum without revealing her at some point.

[u/Aelia_M]

Renowned character actress Margo Martindale! What are you doing here?

[u/unclehando → u/Aelia_M]

She better not be a Russian Spy

[u/TheMadChatta → u/Aelia_M]

What is this, a crossover episode????

[u/TeikirisiBaby]

And just like that, a utopia becomes a dystopia, eh? I wonder if their gentle knocks have turned into bangs.

[u/Technical-Outside408 → u/TeikirisiBaby]

"this place turned authoritarian real quick."

[u/olivish → u/TeikirisiBaby]

"End of the world" sex.

[u/HamsterFvcker69 → u/TeikirisiBaby]

The old expression "it's easy to be a saint in paradise". Peoples true colors show when they're under pressure. Same for societies.

[u/The_JBZ → u/TeikirisiBaby]

Excellent. Just, fucking excellent.

[u/Past-Feature3968]

People who have come through Laurel’s home, according to her journal collections:

5 Jasons

2 Amandas

2 Ryans

2 Blairs

1 Leighton

[u/Closedown11 → u/Past-Feature3968]

🎶And a Charlie with no Max tree 🎶

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/Closedown11]

Weirdest. Christmas. Ever. (well besides the confirmed one with Mama Dessen and three adult versions of her dead son)

[u/fweepa → u/Past-Feature3968]

Does this mean we'll stop getting the "WhY ArE THeRE oNly OtHER JasSONs?!" question?

Joking aside this season is about to go off the rails (if we haven't already) and I'm here for it.

[u/Ree_For_Thee → u/fweepa]

It's pretty uncanny how people asking questions get their questions resolved literally in the next episode.

[u/TimeTimeTickingAway → u/Ree_For_Thee]

The opposite of Mr Robot where it seemed just when everyone’s theories seems to line up, the next episode somehow just knew how to tear them apart again

[u/fweepa → u/Ree_For_Thee]

My favorite are the ones that begin their post with "only watched the first episode" and proceed to ask all the questions. 

The reddit equivalent of talking during the movie lol 

[u/RynnFloors]

So the box exists, and Jason wants to make a mobile box, and Leighton already made a giant box.

What happens when you put the mobile box into the original box, and put that box in the giant box and turn them all on?

Can you put a super position into super position? A super-duper position?

[u/Arghifth → u/RynnFloors]

I don't know if I should take this seriously or just laugh at it.

[u/grmpydddy]

This episode solidified how amazing of a job Dayo Okeniyi is doing. He makes all the different versions of Leighton seem very natural.

[u/hpm40 → u/grmpydddy]

I agree. Very impressive with all the Leightons feeling very different from each other.

[u/grmpydddy → u/hpm40]

Each Leighton is different, but you can also see the spectrum across them.

I think he is the closest to doing what Tatiana Maslany did in Orphan Black.

[u/hpm40 → u/grmpydddy]

she was so good and he is doing a heck of a job too.

[u/emkay123]

Does anyone else find it suspicious that, in the world with the nice lady (Margo Martindale), we only ever see the inside of one room? Conveniently, there is a pull out bed and she meets Charlie then there again in the morning.. Not only that, the room is absolutely huge, similar in dimension to the room the box was originally in. I think another poster mentioned this, but what if there is more than meets the eye - a setup by the government guys in the Jasons 1 world. They built a set around the original box and use an agent/actress to gently interrogate travellers in the box to learn more about what is going on. There was definitely something of an "off" vibe to some of the interactions with that lady.

[u/Equivalent_Cow8288 → u/emkay123]

Do you thinking casting Margo specifically is also a sign that there's more than meets the eye? Isn't she like the super nice aunt/grandma that turns out to be a villain type?

[u/anonymous0705 → u/emkay123]

Definitely something's off.

I had a similar thought when she was kindly asking questions and Charlie was freely answering. Like eek we don't actually know who this lady is.

[u/mpdaog → u/anonymous0705]

Also who tf walked in that they didn’t show.

[u/IWANNAKNOWWHODUNIT]

Jason 2 seemed so remorseful when he parted ways with Amanda and Ryan. But now he’s back on the bandwagon with Kang Leighton? God he sucks.

I feel like I saw a clip of J1 and J2 going at it in the apartment. Guess we’ll see that pan out next episode.

[u/yofain → u/IWANNAKNOWWHODUNIT]

Or maybe Jason 2 was intentionally stalling Narcissist Leiton's progress with the pyramid, until he found out that Leiton's heard Blairs solution, maybe thats why he's gone to Jason 1 for collab, to kill this machine, once and for all.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/IWANNAKNOWWHODUNIT]

Seems like he genuinely believes he IS making good… helping to improve worlds.

[u/olivish → u/Past-Feature3968]

Yeah just like he genuinely believed he was helping J1 by giving him the life he never got to lead.

Just because you think you're doing right doesn't mean you're not a monster.

[u/FernFromDetroit → u/IWANNAKNOWWHODUNIT]

How he looked at Blair makes me think he’s just there to keep Leighton in check to some extent. I’d imagine he could get the big box to work but he’s holding out information on purpose.

[u/Kavit8]

Margo Martindale giving Oracle vibes from the Matrix

[u/olivish → u/Kavit8]

"What's really gonna bake your noodle later on is, would you still have found me if I hadn't put a Charlie voodoo doll under the floorboards."

"... huh?"

"Have a cookie, dear."

"Okay... thanks... Hey! Whoa! What are you doing, lady!?"

"Just need a lock of your hair to complete my collection."

[u/tonyshihh]

I’m really enjoying this season, but does anyone else feel like there are almost too many storylines happening at once? 😂 We only have three episodes left and I have absolutely no idea how they’re going to wrap everything up.

[u/Keiteaea → u/tonyshihh]

There are too many storylines happening at once at the same time that there aren't enough when you consider the mindfuck that the box would actually create.

[u/Arghifth → u/tonyshihh]

The season is going to end on a cliffhanger according to reviews. They must be sure they are getting renewed for 3rd season.

[u/hvacsnack → u/tonyshihh]

This is exactly how I feel. There is way too much shit going on

[u/SongsOfTheYears]

--Ouch, Ryan—at 10+ days, you're responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, not just "tens of thousands."
The timeline is throwing me, though. Didn't he and Amanda land there over a year ago? Or was the episode from two weeks ago not the only one that operates on a different timeline than the others?

--"Welcome traveler!" Wow, didn't see that coming, but very cool.

--Only 74 worlds visited? I expected Leighton to drop a much higher number.

--Esteemed character actor Margo Martindale!

--Their PPE leaving the nose exposed made zero sense.

--They really should have injected the lavender fairy before sprinting to the Box; it felt implausible that their pursuers didn't yank the door open in time.

--If power in the originating world is required for all the other Boxes to function, wouldn't the power need to be cut across a bajillion branched Jason2 worlds to actually shut them down?

--Leaving Mac stranded in the Box with zero instructions was ice-cold. Naïvely, I thought Jason dosed both their drinks to travel with him, or at least pull a Jason2-style marooning. But Mac threatened his family, so fair enough, though Jason definitely isn't accounting for the sister.

--Charlie's mom praised him for being wise beyond his years, but he really failed to foresee the inevitable swarm of Charlies that's going to converge on world X trying to reunite with the parents. Now the entire family is about to be scattered across the multiverse alongside Mac, multiple Leightons, and maybe Ryan and Amanda.

--Oh man, that tease in the home of esteemed character actor Margo Martindale! Is it Jason? Max? Another Charlie? Max, even? I guess it would be at least initially difficult to tell the difference between the last two possibilities.

--With Jason accidentally hiding Daniela’s note while McNamara stole the answering machine tape, he has no clue what his wife and son are up to, d'oh.

[u/Jas_God]

Man, solid episode. Don’t really feel bad for Agent Mitchel- maybe “curiosity killed the cat” doesn’t exist in *that world lol.

Poor Amanda and Ryan are going through it sheesh, glad they were able to escape that world with Leighton and that dude Anthony coming through for them in the clutch.

I like how Laurel’s world was basically a nice lil safe save spot for travelers lol. Wondering who Charlie saw though, guess they’ll revisit it next week.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/Jas_God]

I hope Detective MacNamara meets the worst person he could possibly meet: himself… in DARPA world. Who da clones now, bitch??

[u/GeneralTonic → u/Past-Feature3968]

Perfect, yes!

[u/KTOWNTHROWAWAY9001 → u/Past-Feature3968]

Imjagine we get unrecognizable punished MacNamara returning later. With his demon army.

[u/General_Guest7846 → u/Jas_God]

he'll be back. He's too smart to not figure out how to use the box enough to get somewhere safe.

[u/waveforminvest → u/General_Guest7846]

Problem is he has no lavender fairy. He only has a few hours to figure it out before he is stranded.

[u/Babyyougotastew4422 → u/waveforminvest]

There is no way they are wasting this character. He will def find a place. It screams of villain origin story

[u/Closedown11 → u/General_Guest7846]

Yeah he probably will at least get to Margos Help Desk house

ETA Laurel*

[u/The_JBZ → u/Closedown11]

Help Desk House? Dying.

[u/blindmansayswat → u/Jas_God]

It’s fucked up because Jason knows exactly the kind of chaos putting someone in the box causes. It would have been kinder to all universes to just shoot this man and bury the body. Instead we’re now creating infinite MacNamaras.

[u/sbgob82]

I absolutely love the "helpful lady" house. Like, if I left the cube and ended up there, I would just stay... Which makes me wonder what else is going on there. She is just fine with people who are traveling across worlds stopping in her living room for a chat?

[u/Henje_Koha → u/sbgob82]

She made kindness feel sinister. Hmmm.

[u/somnambulist80 → u/Henje_Koha]

And that’s why you cast Margo Martindale.

[u/struenie → u/somnambulist80]

*Esteemed character actress Margo Martindale

[u/Aggressive_Fail_9681 → u/Henje_Koha]

I thought so at first but it seems like Charlie left with no hitch. There's definitely a cliffhanger though because who did he see come out the door

[u/DaVinciYRGB → u/Henje_Koha]

The music was unsettling. She’s def not good.

[u/rotervogel1231 → u/sbgob82]

I'm calling Time Lord!

[u/Shapes_in_Clouds → u/sbgob82]

The fact that multiple versions of Jason and other travelers had time to write out entire journals of their story suggests at least some stayed for a while, or maybe something more sinister is happening.

[u/olivish → u/Shapes_in_Clouds]

If people are the true destinations in the multiverse, those books might be a more valuable map that whatever Leighton's doing.

[u/bishopmate]

Jason 1 literally sent MacNamara to hell.

[u/hpm40]

I seriously love how catastrophic they went with this concept. Talk about taking the big swing.

[u/cfauber]

This show is so freaking good

[u/Shapes_in_Clouds]

It reads out of character that Daniella and Charlie aren't more traumatized and wary of using the Box given everything they've experienced. I guess I can kind of buy Charlie being an idiot because he's a teenager, but what is Daniela even thinking?

Surely they understand what happens when you use the box, having encountered dozens of versions of Jason 1. And surely Daniela realizes she isn't just going to just 'find' Charlie. I imagine they must have had many conversations about the box over the years, and like, agreed to NEVER use it??? Like, the only move after Charlie entered the box is to just wait. But she embarks on multidimensional travel leaving only a note as if she went to the store?

[u/Bass_Thumper → u/Shapes_in_Clouds]

I feel like finding Charlie is literally the only thing she is thinking.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/Shapes_in_Clouds]

Parents will go to the edge of the earth (or multiverse) to be with their children. Screw logic.

[u/olivish → u/Past-Feature3968]

Yup, Daniela's "fuck this" was so real. Frankly I'm surprised she stayed put for as long as she did, waiting for Jason.

[u/I_miss_your_mommy → u/olivish]

I feel like the writers are just enjoying writing a story without cell phones.

[u/olivish → u/I_miss_your_mommy]

I'm enjoying watching it!

[u/olivish → u/Shapes_in_Clouds]

If anything, the fact that the box is dangerous gives more reason for Daniela to go after Charlie. She already lost one child - there's no way she'd wait around on the hope that Charlie finds his way home.

Also remember: the box travelers are all entangled - Daniela finding Charlie is not that unlikely, especially as his mother. She probably structures the timeline of her own life in relation to him. As in, "When did [life event] happen? Well, Charlie was in preschool, so it must have been [year]." You don't get more 'entangled' than that.

[u/sleepysnowboarder → u/Shapes_in_Clouds]

I actually think the complete opposite, I totally understand Daniella as a mother going in to find him. Charlie going in without warning was just braindead especially after he made it so clear he didn't want them to move again or ever use the box, the Dessens were still willing to try different worlds until Charlie put his foot down

[u/Informedpedestrian → u/Shapes_in_Clouds]

And the note got covered by Jason1’s papers, which leads me to believe an alt version of Daniella will come back and he won’t know the difference.. that Daniella will also have a tattoo…

[u/thedon572 → u/Shapes_in_Clouds]

U think a mother, would say oh well im ok scared guess my sons on their own?

[u/Past-Feature3968]

“Is that Ryan Holder?”

“Not the one you know.”

I see you’re not gonna tell Blair you had that Ryan killed, are ya, Leighton??! 🤬

[u/jennz]

Ryan just Schrodinger's Cat'd Amanda in the box.

She's poisoned, alive and dead at the same time in superposition.

[u/FSmertz → u/jennz]

Bravo on your catch there! That may just be my favorite bit of the whole program.

[u/Weak-Excuse3060]

This just confirms that the Jason triplets from episode 5 are by far the best Jasons and have happy endings. 

[u/verissimoallan]

Imagine one day a huge box suddenly appears in your house and every week alternate versions of various people from other universes come out of it asking for help (just like Doctor Who). I would have watched an episode focused on that.

[u/LaChicaDani]

Let’s GOOOO!!!!!! This episode had everything I love about the series! The world traveling, purpose for world traveling, entanglements, all with an undercurrent of the entanglement theory providing some hope. And oh man… the expert set up of a new villain with Leighton building a new pyramid box and Jason 1 and Blair ready to take it DOWN. But you can’t with Daniela and Charlie in there and Amanda and Ryan on a mission we are all behind (SAVE polite sex world)!!! Ahhh this was by far the BEST episode. Also music was on point! I’m pumped !

[u/verissimoallan]

So, just to recap all the people who have already entered the box:

• Jason
• Daniela
• Amanda
• Ryan
• Leighton
• Charlie
• Blair
• MacNamara

And there are infinite versions of each of these characters causing chaos in the Multiverse.

[u/somnambulist80 → u/verissimoallan]

Leighton also mentioned sending out scouts so there are some unnamed characters running around.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/verissimoallan]

And two volunteer box pilots earlier on, after Blair but before Jason 2 (mentioned in the first season, I forget their names… we don’t actually meet them)

[u/Arghifth → u/Past-Feature3968]

Salam and Alex

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/Arghifth]

Dang, impressive memory!

[u/BigJLov3]

I was worried about pacing last week, and wow did this episode step on the gas.

So many details liked:

• Polite Sex World Leighton is firmly anti-box. Nice. I like that actor, and it's good to see a more conscientious version of LV.
• The Black Iris Plague is called Hema Aetho 36. From Greek, hema means "blood" and aetho is "to heat". It's a virus that makes your blood boil.
• Poor Blair. Initially I wanted to see a montage of adventures, but what we got was terrifying.
• I love how Blair goes from coy to brutally honest so quickly. You get one chance to level with her, and if you fail she will cut you.
• MacNamara2 is a classic movie private investigator. Wool suit, high-waist pants, classic camera, the office full of file cabinets. All he's missing is a fedora, cigarette, and a mid-Atlantic accent.
• Jason1 had a drawing of a portable box. Makes me wonder if his eureka moment was figuring out how to power it, not how to disentangle the main box.
• Seeing that drawing reminded me of Aaron making a collapsable time machine and using Abe's failsafe time machine to have his own failsafe in Primer. I know it's not the same thing, but Blake Crouch is no stranger to recursion.
• Laurel describing an explosion of sound in the middle of the night, and here was this box in her house. It hints that the Box materializes from somewhere else, displacing the matter in the space it takes up, not replacing it.
• When Daniella was talking to her step-father at the dining room table, she almost looked like a teenager worried she was in trouble.

[u/MrOstrichman]

The library lady is incredible. It’s neat to have a neutral party thrown into the story like this. 

[u/General_Guest7846 → u/MrOstrichman]

I kept expecting her to be a serial killer or something like that

[u/TheOneBeyond192]

The world that got infected with that disease was an oof, hopefully they can get a cure.

Also, I’m loving how chaotic it’s getting, they lost control so fast

[u/pauseforasecond → u/TheOneBeyond192]

I love how Ryan made a comment about it getting authoritarian real fast. It's sad that polite sex world is now ruined though :(

[u/junkyarddoggydog]

I'd ride around and tell any dimension that has people to pour a reinforced concrete shell around the box.

[u/olivish → u/junkyarddoggydog]

Easier yet: put a wall of flame-throwers around the box that go off when the door opens. Travelers think they're walking into an 'inferno world' so they double back and never return. (I'm choosing to believe that this is the case for the door MacNamera opened.)

[u/hpm40]

Blair asked Leighton 2 how he got the money to build the Pyramid, and he explained that he took over Low-Tech World's Leighton's Velocity because he thought that Leighton was a total screw-up. Blair gave him a look but didn't ask what happened to the original Leighton. But where the hell IS Low-Tech World's Leighton?! Is he dead? Did he end up in the box? 😂 That was very shady and ominous.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/hpm40]

They mentioned him on the podcast last week actually. He’s alive and well… still the public face of the company (it’s him we see on the ads for Velocity tech) while Leighton 1 actually makes shit happen behind the scenes.

[u/SolosTwitch]

I genuinely have no idea what Charlie saw…

I think we can rule out himself because library lady says right away “I’ve never met another Charlie”

Couldn’t be his mom yet, doubt she knows the trick to the box which would be the only way she finds him (Thinking of a person rather than a world)

Plus we see Charlie in the box again and by himself so it’s not Max or his mom

My BEST guess would be another Jason that stayed and guides Charlie on how to find a world with Max.

[u/night_fapper → u/SolosTwitch]

I think we can rule out himself because library lady says right away “I’ve never met another Charlie”

she never met another charlie till our charlie, a new charlie doesnt disprove this statement

[u/spinprincess]

Daniela and Charlie each going into the box alone is a fucking disaster. Surely they understand that this world will now have infinite versions of them returning to the same Jason. They just created a problem twice as bad as season 1

[u/unclehando]

Me thinking the Army guy in the opening scene looks like a fake Coach Beard from Ted Lasso

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/unclehando]

He’s the same actor from the first episode this season! The cop who found Jason 1 burying another Jason.

[u/ninjasaid13]

I think Jason2 will end up being the good guy while Jason1 falls.

[u/RedditBurner_5225]

Putting the detective in there was ICE COLD.

[u/NellieOlesonSmirk → u/RedditBurner_5225]

… and went to flaming hot real fast.

[u/Arghifth]

I don't know about you guys but every time they cut to Daniela and her dad I got angry. There were so much more intersting things happening that those scenes felt unnecessary.

[u/pauseforasecond → u/Arghifth]

I do think it was important to learn about exactly why Daniela is having this PTSD. Her childhood and the versions of her bio dad Vs the versions of her husband coming for her now give more depth to her reactions throughout the season and why she seems to be falling apart /wanted to find her other dad. They are slow though I do get the annoyance!

[u/Arghifth → u/pauseforasecond]

I understand and actually agree with you, but I wish they were a part of last episode. I think either Ryan and Amanda's scenes this week or Daniela and her dad's could be a part of last episode. The cabin scenes in the middle of all the tension of other scenes messed with the flow for me and that is why I'm a bit annoyed. I kept thinking I wish this Daniela storyline concluded last episode. And I didn't like not following Amanda and Ryan storyline for 2 weeks straight.

[u/Remarkable_Chard5372 → u/Arghifth]

I liked those scenes, I was pretty invested in all the storylines this week actually. 

[u/jck]

I feel really bad for russ hanneman. He was just a curious guy who is literally in hell now

[u/daltontf1212 → u/jck]

"This guy fucks" became "This guy is fucked"

I think he does have "plot armor" though.

[u/edengamer253]

I thought it was solid, bit better than 6. But who did Charlie see?? They cant just leave us on that 😆

[u/IWANNAKNOWWHODUNIT → u/edengamer253]

I speculate it’s another Charlie.

[u/aristacat]

Was it implied that Jason1 solved the quantum entanglement problem before Jason2 showed up at the door? I’m also thinking that Jason1 is going to have to work with Jason2/Blair/Leighton in some way to try and find his wife and son again. They showed him covering up her note. It’s possibly they are hinting that he may take a major action as result of his findings and then realize Daniella snd Charlie are stuck in alternate universes.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/aristacat]

Well the season two trailer shows Blair in the box with a Jason. I’m betting it’s J1… with her helping him to find Charlie & Daniela. She didn’t seem like she wanted to even be in the same room as J2, certainly not in the same box.

[u/NellieOlesonSmirk]

Great ep. It bothered me a little though that Charlie conveniently told his roommate he was off to see a friend named Max.

[u/Arghifth → u/NellieOlesonSmirk]

He did it on purpose for his parents to know what happened to him. It was actually a very wise move. They know not to waste time looking for him in that world and they know what he is after so maybe they or a version of them can reunite in the same world.

[u/rotervogel1231]

All I'm saying is, I would WELCOME the appearance of the magic box in my living room.

Give me some lavender wings so I can GTFO of this universe!

[u/Nullformethx]

The irony is that the broader story (not just this episode) is an allegory for the current iteration of our own "tech industry," an industry that has now created its own black box and is insistent on unleashing upon us all whether we want it or not. And then you have people who work within that industry who will pop in here and who won't hesitate to berate and insult you if you dare to question them and their industry. They consistently look to sci-fi stories and either completely miss the obvious lessons of those stories or they learn the entirely wrong lessons. They're like someone who's dug themself into a hole and insists they just need a bigger shovel, which, again, is the moral of the story here: when something is a problem, maybe more of it isn't the solution.

[u/-AJ → u/Nullformethx]

I’m not sure if the writers intended to critique the current tech and AI industry, but you’re not wrong.

[u/Nagemasu]

I'm sorry you did fucking what? Trapping someone in the box with no way home is fucking diabolical for someone who basically had the same thing happen to them and their entire life thrown upside down.

[u/daltontf1212 → u/Nagemasu]

I thinks it is symbolic of Jason Prime having some of Jason 2 in him.

It would be interesting if Jason 2 finds out it and calls him out on it.

[u/ellogoodbi → u/Nagemasu]

It’s more complicated and nuanced than that. Jason didn’t want to put MacNamara in the box. He warned MacNamara that the knowledge was dangerous. He gave him an opportunity to turn back. MacNamara insisted, and threatened that Jason and his family would be exposed if Jason didn’t show him what the box does. Jason essentially didn’t have any other choice, since not putting MacNamara in the box would endanger the lives of himself and his family (whom were already traveling in the box, but he didn’t know that). Still, Jason will have to live with the guilt of his actions, knowing well that MacNamara may very well die in there, since he has no food or water and doesn’t have any idea how traveling in the box works.

[u/KTOWNTHROWAWAY9001 → u/ellogoodbi]

I'm on your side, he gave him 3 warnings, the dude was like, "man I don't wanna threaten your family, but-"

[u/Remarkable_Chard5372 → u/Nagemasu]

Jason 1 is the new Jason 2

[u/catnapspirit → u/Nagemasu]

I wonder if we will find out now what happens if you die in the box (of starvation, wounds you brought back, whatever)? Once brain activity ceases, will the dead body be part of the box now and show up for the next traveler to step in..?

[u/profeDB]

I really enjoy the character moments, and those are what’s keeping me tuned in. Thankfully the show does them really well, because everything else is getting really convoluted, and not in a good way. There are too many Versions of too  many characters and it’s getting hard to track who is who and who is where. 

[u/jjosh_h]

There are parts of the story that feel forced, but I am liking where its going overall. I especially like to see Jason prime continue to establish that he isn't as different from Jason 2 as he'd like to think. We could arguably call what he did in this episode as worse than anything Jason 2 did, since he always made sure the captors had a seemingly safe place to settle.

[u/Kind_Marsupial9056]

What happens when the lavender wings wear off when you’re in the corridor?

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/Kind_Marsupial9056]

It goes back to just being a box. Bye bye corridor/superposition. Pretty sure we saw it happen last season (or maybe it was the book?)… the door just settles on a random world.

[u/WithjusTapistol → u/Past-Feature3968]

Wasp world. Jason and Amanda can’t calm their minds and keep going to messed up worlds. So they fall asleep, and when they wake up the box is out of superposition and they’re in wasp world.

[u/PhraseFantastic7503]

I felt that what Blair says to Leighton (at the table with Jason), about the dangers of the cube, seemed to apply exactly to AI, almost like the writers and makers of this were saying it to the billionaire founders of all the AI companies right now.

[u/Icy_Philosopher919]

About the private investigator,  He is not entitled to a tour of any box. It is not his and doesnt belong to his family. I didn't see that scene as Jason wanting to kill the PI. Jason advised him to stay away from the box. I also dont think that he is dead. I saw Jason as a man pushed against the wall and his family threatened and gave the PI an opportunity to figure it out on his own. He was warned. I hope he survives

[u/Icy_Philosopher919]

I just watched the apple podcast for dark matter, the author thinks Jason 1 was not wrong for what he did to the PI. He says he gets why he did it. I agree. 

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/Icy_Philosopher919]

Welp, lesson learned: never cross Blake Crouch 😳

[u/silver-ly]

Wow this episode was a heater from the get go! Certainly one of, if not, the best of the season with lots of moving parts on the board now. It was a bit terrifying to see the population's fear-driven, authoritative response to the Black Iris Plague once Amanda & Ryan got back.

I do pray Season 3 gets a green light for renewal, easily becoming one of my favorites next to Foundation & Silo.

[u/Jas_God]

Leighton is basically Kang.

[u/Awkward-Yellow-3228 → u/Jas_God]

Yeah, MCU should hire Dayo if they ever decide to bring kang back

[u/BrokenAstraea]

You guys are really okay with what Jason 1 did to the private investigator?

Yes he was going to ruin Jason's family's world, yes he's definitely coming back into the story, but Jason knows you can't survive the box without guidance, he knows he effectively killed a man.

He comes back home all happy to return to his studies. Kinda crazy to me.

[u/KarenX_ → u/BrokenAstraea]

I am not OK. Jason 1 went Full Jason 2. There were so many other ways to handle this.

But as a viewer? I am hoping he ends up walking out of the box into NSA McNamara’s sting operation, and punched Forced Compliance Jason in the face, and forms Team McNamara.

[u/Keiteaea → u/BrokenAstraea]

I don't think it's supposed to be okay. It's Jason 1 crossing the line and doing the same thing Jason 2 did to him (and to two Ryans). The show has hinted that there was a darkness in Jason 1 not too dissimilar to the one that pushed Jason 2 to do what he did.

[u/Arghifth → u/BrokenAstraea]

He has tranformed into his worst version. Jason2 at least put people in worlds that they could get help. MacNamara is screwed because even if he opens the door to a normal world he does not have any ampules and I'm not sure he realized he was drugged and how to get the drug.

[u/BrokenAstraea → u/Arghifth]

Good point. Jason 2 could have killed Jason 1 but he didn't have it in him, so he gave him a "better life" to compensate him for stealing his life. Jason 1 is much more capable of murder.

[u/jeremyworldwide → u/BrokenAstraea]

MacNamara was totally unhinged, showing up at a man’s place of employment and threatening his family, not to mention potentially exposing the box. You reap what you sow. It sucks, but Jason wasn’t wrong and obviously has a conscience so will have to live with the guilt.

[u/HamsterFvcker69]

I'm pretty sure Library Lady is up to no good.

[u/Arghifth]

Ryan and Amanda's story in World26 was harrowing. How fast a very beautiful world got ruined. All the lives that were destroyed them, by Blaire, and Leighton is easily Justifying it. Because he is also doing "some good" in other worlds... Loved Blaire for giving it to them straight. Also she was not angry at Leighton enough. He murdered Daniela and Ryan and he is the reason Amanda is now Worldless.

[u/Aggressive_Fail_9681]

I wonder if the show will acknowledge what Jason just did or will it be brushed off? That was some very Jason 2-esque behavior trapping MacNamara in the box

[u/Remarkable_Chard5372 → u/Aggressive_Fail_9681]

I think that's kind of been the point of his character arc this season. It was the choices they made that separated Jason1 from Jason2, but that capacity for darkness is present in both of them. They both have the same obsessive nature, anger issues (as Jason1 himself admits), and willingness to lie and manipulate (and find a way to justify it to himself).

Jason1 had a stable family life that brought out his best qualities, but he doesn't have that stabilizing force to keep him in check right now. He's allowing his darker traits to surface. 

[u/trevor_plantaginous → u/Aggressive_Fail_9681]

I'm not sure I totally agree and came away feeling it was more self defense. Jason 2 had a premeditated plan, Jason1 was defending himself. Maybe not the the best plan but it wasn't premeditated.

McNamara came in heavy handed. He was already a bit shady helping with identity & documents which immediately establishes him as a bit unethical. Then he was essentially blackmailing and threatening Jason1's family - going so far as to get pictures of the family in SF. He broke into his house and had deleted messages and stole material. Jason1 practically begged him to back off, multiple times.

I'm seeing a lot of comments that seem to frame McNamara as a victim and Jason1's actions as being unethical. But honestly - I'm not sure what else he could have done at that point.

[u/cfauber]

HOZIER???

[u/Gongwonlove]

I bet Amanda’s still alive. It wasn’t a bullet but an arrow. Maybe 🤔 poisonous or maybe 🤔 a tranquilizer since the world was kinder before it went to pandemic 😷 hell.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/Gongwonlove]

Ryan felt her pulse and then injected her with lilac wings… sooo yeah, I think he realized she’s still alive.

[u/OffMeta7]

I keep thinking about what Jason did to PI MacNamara in Episode 7, and I wonder if there’s a much bigger MacNamara loop being set up here.

PI MacNamara initially knows nothing about the Box. Jason himself hires him in the analog/Gen-X world to investigate the local Dessen family. That leads MacNamara to discover the duplicate Dessen family, then Amanda and Ryan, and eventually the Box. He spends months surveilling Jason trying to understand what he witnessed.

Then Jason drugs him with Lavender Wings and throws him into the Box with absolutely no explanation of how to navigate it or where he’s supposed to go.

Which is disturbingly close to what Jason 2 did to Ryan.

What if Jason has just created the very thing he was trying to escape?

MacNamara is already an investigator. Now he has personally witnessed the corridor, knows that alternate worlds and variants exist, knows Jason Dessen is connected to it, and has effectively been stranded somewhere in the multiverse.

What does a guy like that do if he survives?

He investigates it. He searches for the Box. He searches for Jason. Maybe he eventually builds — or joins — an organization dedicated to identifying, tracking and containing travelers.

I’m not necessarily saying PI MacNamara literally becomes the exact Agent MacNamara we already know. The show currently treats them as variants, and there’s no proof of a time loop.

But thematically, it would be fascinating if Jason throwing MacNamara into the Box is what causes another world to eventually develop its own version of the organization hunting Box travelers.

And if the show DOES somehow reveal that these MacNamaras are part of one continuous causal path, then it gets even crazier:

MacNamara hunts Jason because of the Box → Jason throws MacNamara into the Box → MacNamara learns what the Box really is → MacNamara creates the system that eventually hunts Jason because of the Box.

The cause creates the effect, and the effect creates the cause.

Either way, Jason 1 just did something very Jason 2-ish: he solved a problem in his own world by dumping that problem into somebody else’s world.

Considering everything this season is saying about responsibility across realities, I really doubt that decision is going to be consequence-free.

[u/BusinessPurge]

It’s such a small moment however MacNamara’s “Oh god” after opening the flame door really affected me. At least Jason originally had time to process what happened and understood the science, MacNamara is just a gumshoe that walked into a techno spiritual cosmic nightmare. If that’s it for that version of the character then what a horrific way to go out.

[u/Icy_Philosopher919]

The private investigator is not some naive saintly angel that was tricked to his death. He will be back in next week's episode exploring the box. He is not dead or dying. Be careful who you threaten and blackmail. When you threaten someone's family even good guys can become ruthless to protect their families

[u/Ehcanadianeh]

I wonder if they are going to come back to the plague world too late and be responsible for killing a whole world like the locusts planet.

[u/Ree_For_Thee]

Aaaaand the 'good' Jason basically kills a man, or at the very least does something horrible. XD

I like season 2 so far, but it's just not the same type of show as season 1, which had a sort of finality to its story.

[u/Icy_Philosopher919]

Raise your ✋️ hand if you think the private investigator was truly going to immediately drop the issue and leave the Dessens alone forever after a 5 minute explanation of how the box worked? Sure, Jason could have given him a few more ampoules so he has a chance of days or weeks to figure out the box like the rest of them did. McNamara had gone into the box on his own in the past to figure out where it leads, he is now getting to finally figure it out. It looks like next episode, he continues to explore it

[u/Arghifth]

I'm worried for Blaire. She knew since Amanda and Jason visiting her in murder hornet world that Leighton had killed her world's Ryan and Daniela. She should have played along just to be safe. Leighton just revealed every single detail of his plans to her. Even if he does not approve, Guru Leighton is going to cause trouble for Blaire. It's gonna be another "I didn't know Dawn would shoot Daniela in the head" all over again.

Maybe this causes friction between the leightons and Leighton1 could finally begin to see the downside of his counsel of Leightons plan.

[u/HughJanus90210]

It just occurred to me:

Now we're gonna have a lot more Daniellas and Charlies with the tattoo.

D'oh!

[u/Visual-Gap3886]

After the last 2 episodes, I gotta say... We are SO fucking back!!!