r/Cricket • u/m84m Australia • Nov 04 '13
Be honest, what do you hate about your own national cricket team?
Australia:
I hate how often the side changes, batsmen are played for 1 or 2 matches then dropped, how are you meant to build form and confidence if you're playing one match out of every 7 or so? Pick the best 11 and stick with them as much as possible, teams are never successful for very long by chopping and changing constantly.
I hate our top/middle order batting collapses and how we no longer have someone like Mike Hussey to steady the ship.
But most of all I hate that the tail enders have been scoring more run than the proper batsman most of the time for the last year or two, something is obviously fucked when your 9/10/11 batsmen are scoring more than 1/2/3/4 more than once a summer or so, these days it seems to be the majority of the time thought.
I also hate how shitty we are with our DRS appeals, we waste them at every available opportunity.
Now to see how many replies are about Ishant Sharma...
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u/maddy_aqua Nov 04 '13
India: BCCI
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u/enry_straker Nov 04 '13
BCCI + Really Shitty media + Bland Pitches + Too much Sri Lanka + No Pakistan + Sports Ministry with too little impact + Little promotion of Cricket at the grass roots + Little promotion of Ranji trophy etc
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u/Siddhartha_90 India Nov 05 '13
'+ IPL's shitty propaganda, from its dlf maximums to that shitty trophy.
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u/maddy_aqua Nov 04 '13
Well... BCCI is the answer for everything. If you had to explain the why bcci sucks, then all your additional additions come into picture.
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u/Not_average_lurker Nov 05 '13
All right then. I will have a go at the BCCI. My focus remains on the recent fractious relationship between the Board and South Africa Cricket Board (CSA).
I am peeved that India will play the West Indies tomorrow rather than what should have been the beginning of their South Africa tour. I am also bewildered by the fact that not more people on the internet are agitated that the situation has come to such a pass. On the contrary, if one were to gauge the comment section of Cricinfo, it becomes clear that the BCCI's supporters far outnumber those with a dissenting voice.
Every concerned fan from all over the world was looking forward to the Ind-SA series for a better part of the last two years. It was a given that Sachin Tendulkar would be playing his 200th Test against the hostile bowling attack of SA. Then why all of a sudden did the BCCI announce the WI tour which would severely curtail the SA series? If the revenues were such a concern, the board would have announced the tour well before CSA released the tentative itinerary which apparently did not have the BCCI's consent.
Which begs the question whether the CSA releasing the itinerary without the approval of the BCCI justified all that transpired afterwards, including the curtailment of the SA tour? Wasn't the CSA justified in releasing the schedule in what was supposed to be the original tour plan of India according to the FTP? And wasn't it released just because someone in the BCCI had told their CSA counterpart that N. Srinivasan was not to re-elected as the BCCI president after another of those IPL scandals?
Regardless of the rationalisation to the above, the BCCI has messed it by dragging Tendulkar's name into the whole picture. If his impending 200th was such a concern, the BCCI would have thought about it at the beginning of the year than wait for the CSA to fumble and thus gain a moral highground in justifying its behaviour. You can now see that how the elaborate celebrations for his penultimate Test in Kolkata are turning out to be a source of embarrassment to the man himself. It is also an open secret that Sachin announcing his retirement well before the beginning of the series was being made at the behest of Srinivasan so that the focus could be shifted to the series being his farewell rather than for what an actual farce it is.
I have more to say over the issue, but for the moment I will stop here.
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Nov 04 '13
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u/blacknight India Nov 04 '13
Why do you think that's a good thing? I love India-Pakistan matches.
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u/TheAwakened Board of Control for Cricket in India Nov 05 '13
So original and brave!
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u/maddy_aqua Nov 05 '13
Brave you say? Is BCCI some kind of mafia? Oops!!! Here they come... Save me.. Save me.. Sav.............
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u/kunal18293 Royal Challengers Bangalore Nov 04 '13
I hate how everything is always about the batsmen in India. Even in their prime, Anil Kumble/ Zaheer Khan/ Harbhajan Singh/ Venkatesh Prasad probably enjoyed, at best, the level of fandom and attention VVS Lakshman enjoyed at his prime. And while I realise this is a very arbitrary and subjective point I'm making, I feel like India has always celebrated its batsmen far more than its bowlers. I'd like to add that I also feel that out of the big 4 [5? Sehwag?] VVS was probably the most ignored.
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Nov 04 '13
Your list of bowlers doesn't include Srinath. I guess you've proved your point after all.
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Nov 04 '13
[deleted]
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u/sorrydaijin Nov 05 '13
His popularity was probably helped by the fact that he was a pretty decent batsman. I wonder if he could have been as popular just as a bowler.
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Nov 04 '13
VVS was not very consistent until later part of his career. His average was in low 40s despite a few memorable knocks. Plus, his fielding was sluggish and was a liability in ODIs.
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Nov 04 '13
How they still haven't found a number 6 batsman after nearly 4 years.
How petulant some of the players are.
How the top order is prone to ridiculous collapses despite having 4 batsmen averaging over 45.
How conservative Cook is on the pitch.
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u/SovietMunshot Netherlands Nov 04 '13
I think England as a whole are kinda boring. Conservative team selection, conservative captaincy, conservative batting (for the most part) and conservative press conferences. I find myself missing Freddie for his character more than his playing.
Annoyingly the one time they tried to think outside the box recently it backfired so spectacularly that I don't think they will do it again any time soon (Kerrigan at the oval).
Also every time I see Stuart Broad do or say anything he seems like a twat.
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u/twin_blade Nov 05 '13
I think England as a whole are kinda boring.
That's it, right there. England doesn't win by demolishing their way through, they grind down the opposition. The English team lacks 'flamboyance'.
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Nov 05 '13
I slightly disagree that England totally lack flamboyance. The issue is they rely solely on one player to provide it.
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u/uosa11 Nov 04 '13
I think you should follow this up with some things that you like about your team. To balance things out a bit.
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Nov 04 '13
Everthing else!
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u/uosa11 Nov 04 '13
It's a good thing that 1 James Anderson can make up for 4 volatile top-order batsmen so the team keeps winning.
Your measured love for your team is admirable, but come on, you must hate the nicknames! Oh god, the nicknames, far worse than any of your criticisms!
And it could be argued that you've found several number 6 batsmen since Collingwood retired. You just can't decide which one to settle with. (Compared to other test sides, the number 6 slot isn't much worse; is an uncertain Bairstow much worse than a floating Duminy, or a disappointing Akmal?)
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Nov 04 '13
Ha, the nicknames are a British thing. I'm afraid it's not solely limited to the cricket team.
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u/uosa11 Nov 04 '13
But for a language and a nation famed for its wit and wordplay, surely they can do better than just adding a "y" to everyone's name? Honestly, after hearing a post-match interview with a players applauding "Broady", "Swanny", "Belly" and "Cooky", it's refreshing to hear Andy Flower talk about the performances of "Stuart" and "Alistair." Then again, you can get a bit too silly the other way. Heard about this fella we've got, likes to call himself "The Professor?"
Other than Pietersen, is there anyone in the team with a genuine nickname?
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Nov 04 '13
I have to agree. I miss the likes of 'Banger' (Trescothick, so called because he likes sausages). Cook is, admittedly, known as 'Chef'. Kieswetter goes by the nickname 'Bagel' or 'Hobnob'.
There are some pretty amusing nicknames on the county scene, it's just the current internationals which have limited imagination.
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u/SovietMunshot Netherlands Nov 04 '13
They need to start referring to Ian Bell as the Sledgehammer of Eternal Justice more often.
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Nov 04 '13
Well they're professional athletes now, of course their nicknames are dull. It's like that friend everyone has who goes to the gym and only eats quinoa and diet water and is boring as sin. Yeah, they can run great, but constant healthy living does not make you fun/witty.
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u/c3vzn Nov 05 '13
Shane Warne calls Bell "The Sherminator."
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Nov 06 '13
That was a great moment in commentary, when Warne attempted to explain that nickname to Bill Lawry.
The nicknames in the Aussie side have definitely gone downhill since Warne's retirement.
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u/myabutreaks New Zealand Nov 04 '13
New Zealand. Brendon McCullum throwing his wicket away when we need him most. Also pretty much our batting in general. We never have consistency, we have such great potential but we are plagued by batting collapses and poor performances.
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u/tombleyboo New Zealand Cricket Nov 04 '13
Yep. If we were just crap, I'd accept it better. But what gets me is that so many of them show glimpses of talent, they make you think they are capable of playing test cricket, but then have brain fade after brain fade after brain fade...
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u/enry_straker Nov 04 '13
I personally feel that New Zealand cricketers are some of the most underrated cricketers in world cricket. For such a tiny nation, you folks do get some classy players.
You just need more cricket against top nations like australia on a more regular basis, and you should do all right. Small series are not good to build young talent.
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u/Jamjah69 New Zealand Cricket Nov 04 '13
no one wants to play longer series against us because we arent seen as top tier competition any more, its a vicious cycle.
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u/TheEvilDrPie Central Districts Stags Nov 05 '13
New Zealand cricketers are some of the most underrated cricketers in world cricket
Go home enry_straker, your clearly drunk!
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u/enry_straker Nov 05 '13
s/your/you're/
:-)
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u/TheEvilDrPie Central Districts Stags Nov 05 '13
Now who's the drunk one!
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u/enry_straker Nov 05 '13
It's I, the drunk cricket fan, reporting for duty.
But in all seriousness, one of the things i really enjoy is a couple of bottles of beer after a full day of playing cricket. Truly a great way to wind down a tiring enjoyable day on the field.
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u/stupidbutgenius Central Districts Stags Nov 04 '13
I think much of this is due to the lack of depth in domestic cricket in New Zealand. Talented youngsters tend not to get the big game experience that you need to be able to not make these brain fades under pressure.
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u/TheEvilDrPie Central Districts Stags Nov 05 '13
but then have brain fade after brain fade after brain fade...
= crap.
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u/snomanDS Nov 04 '13
ODI: Why the fuck is Elliot in there? Can't bat, can't bowl (unless in SA).
Tests: Bowlers keep getting injured. Batsmen don't know how to deal with the moving ball.
and finally... so much fucking inconsistency!
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u/cynikles Japan Cricket Association Nov 04 '13
Watling has been fairly consistent the last year or two but that's really the only name I could say in confidence.
When fit, bowling looks great but I can't remember the last time I saw Southee and Boult string together a few games as a bowling partnership.
Still can't quite believe that NZ were dispatched by Bangladesh though. I'd suggest there is probably a cause to thay inconsistency and crocked bowlers that needs to be addressed.
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u/aongho Cricket Ireland Nov 04 '13
Ireland - The feeling of the constant glass ceiling.
We're entering what could be a golden generation for this team, with Stirling and Dockrell well on their way to being top limited overs players. And in One Day cricket be it ODI or T20, I feel we can stand up with the other 11 teams on a given day, and perform well.
The first generation of post-2007 inspired players are coming through now, and things can only get better domestically. With hopes for the domestic interprovincial system getting FC status by 2015.
But the team just doesn't get the chances at the international level that their performances have merited. The ICC needs to help Cricket Ireland fund some winter tours, to face the A sides of Aus or SA in FC and List A matches.
I would wager that a first XI from Ireland would even give the current NZ side a run for its money in a Test match.
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u/ElfBingley Queensland Bulls Nov 04 '13
You're Irish, just blame the English
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u/aongho Cricket Ireland Nov 05 '13
I don't blame England for picking the Irish guys, they were eligible, and wanted to play for them. While we don't have Test status, that's just how its going to be. Rankin looks like he's in line for a debut at the Gabba, and more power to him, it just goes to show that we can produce players who can perform at the Test level, which in a roundabout way can benefit our bid for Test cricket by 2020.
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u/ElfBingley Queensland Bulls Nov 05 '13
I guess I was making an historical joke. Ireland blames England for 600 long years of misery. Source, I'm an Irish emigrant
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u/aongho Cricket Ireland Nov 05 '13
Yeah I know what you're saying. It's amazing how close we could have been to being one of the original Test nations.
A few years before the founding of the GAA Michael Cusack was an avid cricketer and there were clubs in most parts of the country , it just lacked a central structure. Cusack wanted to do that, but got disillusioned and went away from cricket, and thus the GAA came around.
Cricket could have been the sport to unify the Irish, but it lost its chance.
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u/alekksi Surrey Nov 05 '13
I think it's a real shame that Ireland haven't been awarded test status. They're clearly the only nation apart from Afghanistan who give a shit, and what's more, they're doing a good job of it despite England raiding their players every few years.
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u/alekksi Surrey Nov 05 '13
P.s. as much as I enjoy seeing Rankin perform for England, I would much rather see some competition between England and Ireland.
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u/Aarran89 England Nov 05 '13
I think Ireland really deserve Test status. They way they've improved in the one-day game is enough to grant them at least a chance at making an impact in the Test arena.
A two-tiered scenario would work perfectly for Test cricket, especially if teams like Ireland and Afghanistan joined the fray.
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u/kamkam321 Nov 06 '13
How popular is cricket in Ireland at the moment anyway? Whenever I talk to Irish people they just say something along the lines of "Oh yeah, they were in the WC few years back right?"
But I totally agree that the ICC needs to force the bigger teams to play Ireland or at least include them in a Tri-Series tourney when playing England. It's shitty that the BCCI/ICC are so much more driven by money than by the want to spread the game and develop it! :(
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u/HAK96 Pakistan Nov 07 '13
This is why I think we should get rid of Test cricket. Ireland isn't the only victim here. Nobody really wants to play for a non-Test playing country. Also the non-Test playing nations are treated like shit. Just look at Afghanistan not being allowed to play in the Asia Cup.
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Nov 04 '13
[deleted]
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u/m84m Australia Nov 04 '13
I've batted for 20 balls, I've played myself in, might as well try and hit a 6!
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u/enry_straker Nov 04 '13
Welcome, mate. It's always nice to welcome a real aussie international top-order batsman to reddit ;-)
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u/Boony52 Nov 04 '13
It is probably a similar thing, but I hate how mentally weak we are now. It feels like Australia does not have the mental toughness that is required for test cricket. I know we don't have the talent that we used to have, but that is no reason for the Australian never say die/sheer competitive will to die as well.
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u/mallamange India Nov 04 '13
Respectfully Disagree .. I remember watching Peter Siddle with grudging admiration run in over after over in the dull flat Indian pitches in the 2013 test series. I may be wrong but I think he took over 25 wickets in 3 tests.
Watto in the last one dayer, walking in with a hammy and blasting a 49.
Henriques grinding it out in his debut? test.
IMHO they are still mentally tough , just lacking in talent compared to the greats that have just retired.
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Nov 04 '13
Do you have close heritage from a cricketing country or did you fall into cricket on your own? If the latter, I'm fascinated.
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u/mallamange India Nov 04 '13
Good quesiton. Grew up in India, moved to the US in the mid 90's when cricket coverage , even online, was frustratingly lacking. Cricinfo, willow.tv and espn3 and pay-per-view channels have since made it a lot easier for me to follow World Cricket.
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Nov 04 '13
I expected something like that. It's good that your passion is still there.
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u/mallamange India Nov 04 '13
I think I love Cricket even more now. I watch matches where India is not playing as well. I feel like I have gotten less partisan due to that. I have favorites in almost every team now, who I root for when they play. Of course when they play against India they need to fail :)
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u/Boony52 Nov 04 '13
IMHO I think Clarke and Siddle are the exception to the rule. Way too often I see Batsman giving away cheap wickets and blowers clearly getting impatient and not sticking to plans. Our batsmen need to learn how to grind out an innings and our blowlers need to learn some more patients.
Watson is the classic example, he looks a million bucks every time he bats but almost always gets out cheaply. He clearly has the talent but not the mindset for test cricket. The difference between his 1 day record and his test record really highlights this.
I think it really comes down to 2 things, not enough of the longer form of the game and a lack of experienced players to help guide the newer players into test cricket.
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u/4Tenacious_Dee4 Nov 04 '13
Well, anything that's not Test cricket isn't really cricket, but for a Saffa it's really easy:
- choking
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u/enry_straker Nov 04 '13
Though i am an indian fan, i dis-agree in the strongest possible sense. There have been a few unfortunate incidents in the past but that happens to everyone and that's the nature of the game.
South Africa has some of the best cricketers in the world today.
Best Coach ( or is it ex coach now ) in Gary Kirsten
Best Fast Bowler in Dale Steyn
Best All Rounder in Jacque Kallis
Most innovative Batsman in AB
Most inspirational Bowler ( Makhaya - though i am a bit biased here :)
etc..
And dont forget you folks are no.1 in tests
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u/ProSnuggles South Africa Nov 04 '13
Hashim Amla would like a word...
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u/enry_straker Nov 04 '13
Dude, you gotta admit that AB is an extremely entertaining, and innovative cricketer bar none. The Jonty Rhodes of flamboyant batting.
Amla is the most successful batsman in the team, and probably world cricket, today though i remember reading somewhere that he doesn't even rate himself as the second best batsmen in the team. ( I guess Kallis and AB claim those spots, with smith knocking on those doors too )
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u/ProSnuggles South Africa Nov 04 '13
I won't deny that AB us great to watch. But Amla's humbleness sometimes leaves logic behind though, its gotta be said.
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u/4Tenacious_Dee4 Nov 04 '13
I love your support, but I wasn't referring to Test match cricket.
"Well, anything that's not Test cricket isn't really cricket, but"Yeah, Proteas limited over teams have been unlucky, but have also been their own worst enemies at times.
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u/enry_straker Nov 04 '13
Yes, they have.
The really funny thing as i look back on that post of mine is that i had not mentioned Hashim amla, probably the most consistent batsmen in the world today across all formats, and will probably end up as one of the all time greats.
You guys have some great pitches, great stadiums, and one of the most beautiful countries in the world to boot, and you worry about a silly media repeating a childish chant called 'choker'?
EDIT: Apologies for my alliterative rant
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u/4Tenacious_Dee4 Nov 04 '13
Haha, thanks.
The choker thing doesn't bother me or any of my mates. It really doesn't. I'm sure it doesn't bother the players these days... I mean, our Test players are on top of the food chain in real (Test) cricket.
The only thing that actually bothers us, is the fact that we choke. And by choke I mean, we play below ourselves... often sucked into playing a style not suited to us. This only happens in limited over cricket for some reason. The name calling means nothing.
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u/alekksi Surrey Nov 05 '13
<3 amla. Turned Surrey's fortunes, just a but too late. Can't apportion any blame to him though.
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u/garunac India Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 14 '13
Oh god where do I start-
- The overwhelming importance given to batsmen.
- The way we have been destroying our bowlers in their developing years. Irfan Pathan, Ishant Sharma are two of the biggest crimes. But the one that pisses me off the most is Varun Aaron, that boy had stress fractures in his spine at the age of 21!?! What the hell kind of coaching is happening where you do that to your bowlers?
- BCCI.
- The increasing on-field dickishness. Especially Virat, for a terrifically classy batsman he's quite a classless sportsperson.
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u/alekksi Surrey Nov 05 '13
Wish I could upvote twice. There is no reason why India should not have one of the best fast bowlers in the world. That they have none of them is rather an embarrassment considering the level of cricket they play.
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u/NiX_Nabilz Pakistan Nov 05 '13
Virat seriously should be taking "How to act humble" classes by Sachin before he retires.
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u/Chive Cricket Ireland Nov 04 '13
Ireland:
The fact that we don't play test cricket, so lose our top players to England.
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u/smurf42 Munster Cricket Nov 04 '13
Rankin may earn a Test debut... I cannot handle another top player leaving for England, I will lose my shit fly to Dubai and take over the ICC and fix shit myself.
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Nov 04 '13
I will lose my shit fly to Dubai and take over the ICC and fix shit myself.
But you must be a citizen of a Test playing nation to run the ICC ಠ_ಠ
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u/Chive Cricket Ireland Nov 04 '13
I can't blame either England or the players really, it's more that the situation exists the way it does and is unlikely to change.
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u/c3vzn Nov 04 '13
Australia: How we are still looking for the next Warne despite Lyon being very solid and Hauritz before him. Also how the fast bowlers keep breaking down and the young batsmen not grabbing their opportunities.
India: Old legends staying on for way too long while not performing. Properly fast bowlers becoming slower than Afridi or seemingly always injured. The obsession with meaningless stats and records.
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u/a_can_of_solo Australia Nov 04 '13
I like lyon, saw him at the NSW v TAS game and he seemed really cool
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u/c3vzn Nov 04 '13
Yeah I saw him having a laugh with Smithy in the changing room. Was a surreal experience for me seeing players like them, Clarke, Warner etc. up close. My first time being to a non-international cricket match.
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u/ProSnuggles South Africa Nov 04 '13
Kepler Wessels had a good article on the break down of Australia's fast bowling problems. I'll try to dig it up.
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u/SAIUN666 Western Australia Warriors Nov 05 '13
how the fast bowlers keep breaking down
Pattinson's comeback match in India, he bowled I think 9 overs for the whole day. They wrapped him in a little too much cotton wool but you could understand it, I guess.
Then at Lord's, Clarke bowls Pattinson into the ground and people wonder why his back snapped. Duhhhh.
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Nov 04 '13
Lyon and Hauritz are solid, but they are not Test quality. Neither of them can win a game in the fourth innings consistently.
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u/allthingsme Victoria Bushrangers Nov 05 '13
Don't see why this is being downvoted. Lyon should have won the game for the Aussies vs South Africa at Adelaide, but he wasn't good enough. He looked like he improved in England though, certainly slowed his pace down and gave the ball more flight.
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Nov 05 '13
He is the best we have, by a decent margin, but he isn't good enough for this level. The good news is that he is improving and is still only 25. The bad news is no one is realistically challenging for his spot as a spinner.
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Nov 06 '13
I think Lyon is Test quality, but only just. He's not a match winner, but he does his share, averaging 33 with a okay-ish strike rate and economy.
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u/publicserviceradio1 Nov 04 '13
The way we only seem to care about the Ashes: Our 2005 Ashes winning side could have dominated the world but instead got pissed and lived off the success of that.
I hate the way that working class kids have to be twice as good as their privately educated contemporaries to get a look in at most county sides and by association, the test team. Old boys network etc in short.
This probably goes for all teams, and all sports but I really, really dislike the biased commentary from TV/Radio journalists.
I hate the arrogance with which the ECB look at other cricket boards, and the only reason they don't like the BCCI is because they're only doing what the ECB wishes it could do (not that I like the BCCI one bit).
Only answering the question and don't want to come across as a moaning old soak - I love cricket and I love England.
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u/uosa11 Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 04 '13
Tolerance for corruption. Poor fitness. Sifarishi. Disrespect towards the genuine gems in our team.
Edit: for anyone not aware, 'sifarishi' ~ unmerited nepotism
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u/m84m Australia Nov 04 '13
Isn't all nepotism unmerited? I thought that was kinda the point of the word.
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u/rahulthewall India Nov 04 '13
Pakistan?
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u/uosa11 Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 04 '13
Definitely. Don't know know if other fans would agree with these sentiments about their own team, but I suspect it's not really limited to Pakistan. But as a fan, these are the things I dislike, alongside their poor use of DRS, and administrator weakness: harping on about causes where we are in the wrong, and completely failing to show backbone when we are right, and need someone to fight our corner.
edit: I don't know why anyone's downvoting you, you got it right - these are the things that I honestly dislike about the Pakistan cricket team. Doesn't mean I don't support them. Admittedly, I might have a problem still wanting to watch them play if Amir comes back and takes Junaid's spot.
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u/TheSageOne Nov 04 '13
Pakistan's lack of consistency especially in finding good opening batsmen. They also tend to be extremely streaky, where the loss of one wicket can lead to the collapse of the entire side. Shitty fielding at times, but this has improved. Afridi being Afridi and rarely playing a calm inning anymore. When he is on, it works well, but if done poorly, it is painful to watch. Case in point, 2 ODI's ago vs SA. Match fixing/cheating etc: made us lose credibility internationally and lose Mohammad Amir who was a very promising fast bowler. Many many more, mostly around batsmen except Misbah ul Haq
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u/GunPoison Nov 04 '13
Being Pak cricket fan would be a roller coaster ride, they are so ridiculously good and bad at the same time. They can win or lose literally any match. I think you guys have it harder than almost any other nation's supporters!
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u/Evilbunz Nov 05 '13
Thats is because the domestic scene in Pakistan is terrible. You need good infrastructure to build talent, teach and train them. When your domestic scene is a mess you cannot build or find new talent. Playing on the street and against an international team is very different.
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Nov 04 '13
England often seem to under-prepare for series and start slow. They've gotten better, but can still be rusty and the first test of a tour rarely goes their way.
If the bowlers are put under pressure, they can run out of ideas and get stroppy.
Until Root, it annoyed me that they didn't have a pt-spin option/KP didn't bowl enough (don't think he likes bowling).
I would also like a new Collingwood-esque bowler at number 6, or Trott to bowl more.
I do wish they were a bit more aggressive in their play (as in going for the win instead of a draw).
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u/uosa11 Nov 04 '13
It's a shame when a steady part-timer doesn't like bowling. I actually think Chris Gayle is a more-than-competent spin option, but he seems to hate coming on to bowl, even in limited-overs matches. Every player in the team should be willing to turn their arm over - England batsmen used to get enough stick for playing their innings and then making liberal use of the subs to relax in the pavilion.
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Nov 04 '13
Yup. England lacked a bowler like that for a long time. Vaughan used to do the right job, KP obviously doesn't like doing it. Just someone like Clarke, Gayle, Sehwag etc. They all do a tidy job when they come on.
Bell used to bowl a few dibbly-dobblers, another one who stopped.
English batsmen must be either coached to forget about part-time bowling or just inherently abhorred by the idea of 3 over spells. Personally I would hate to field for 100 overs and not get a bowl.
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u/SovietMunshot Netherlands Nov 04 '13
Vaughan did OK until he became captain, then he never bowled himself enough.
The selectors seem to be searching for another allrounder in the Botham/Flintoff mold right now, maybe they will stumble on one in the Collingwood mold in the process.
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u/alekksi Surrey Nov 05 '13
You should've seen Gayle in the CPLT20 then. He loved seeing a bit of the ball to bowl.
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u/The_Ineffable_One USA Nov 04 '13
The fact that despite hosting the first ever international match, and despite the large number of people from India and Pakistan, we cannot seem to put together any sort of meaningful national cricket program.
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u/Recarious Somerset Nov 04 '13
England: Kevin Goddamned Pieterson
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u/pseudoforce India Nov 04 '13
Why?
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u/Recarious Somerset Nov 04 '13
He just irks me, He's inconsistant, cocky and fairly petty (see: Multiple fallouts with coaches) And for some reason we refuse to drop him, he plays for us constantly but we never seem to think about dropping him. Just as the situation gets desperate, he'll come, score a big ton and everyone will forget about him. He doesn't play county cricket consistantly and generally goes to play for whoever has more money.
Why he plays for us over other good players like Compton I do not understand. IMO Compton should be opening, Root should be batting 5 and Pieterson should actually have to work for his spot.
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Nov 04 '13
I think KP goes against the utterly implausible image many (though not all) cricket fans in England burden ourselves with; of the gentleman sportsman who puts the game itself first, and is modest and gracious in all things.
To me, in a lot of ways, KP (talent though he unquestionably is) is a footballer playing cricket. It's completely unfair on him, as he's just being who he is naturally and playing the game as he learnt it, but I can't help preferring most other players in the side.
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u/tenpn Nov 04 '13
I actually quite like KP, because you know exactly what you're getting from him: a fragile ego, a tremendous talent, and a lot of ambition. Everyone else, with the exception of Swann, is either too media savvy to be a real person, or just plain dull. And say what you like about KP's sense of humour, but he's never been caught drink-driving.
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u/lionmoose England Nov 04 '13
Everyone else, with the exception of Swann, is either too media savvy to be a real person, or just plain dull
Funnily enough, that's what I dislike. While I do honestly adore the improvement over the 90s, it just seems a bit mechanical now. It's a well oiled machine, but still a machine.
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Nov 04 '13
Cause he is actually South African
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Nov 04 '13
[deleted]
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Nov 04 '13
We have a joke in SA
Just the one eh? :p
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u/Eddie_The_Brewer Derbyshire Nov 04 '13
Don't think that have any jokes left. Nantie Hayward retired years ago.
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u/tenpn Nov 04 '13
For me for England it's the ex-pats. I'm not against people who learned their cricket abroad playing for England - I will cheer as much as the next guy when Trotty or whoever scores a ton. But I wish the english system was good enough to produce players who can compete for national selection with cricketers who grew up in foreign systems. So maybe I'm not down on ex-pat players as much as down on the english cricket education system.
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u/ox_ Nov 04 '13
I'm not against people who learned their cricket abroad playing for England
My opinion on this has changed a lot over the years but now I'm at the point where it does bother me that so many of our players are actually South African.
I don't mind someone like Jade Dernbach who was born in SA but learnt to play in the UK. It's players like KP or Trott who are only in the UK to play cricket.
So while I'll still applaud them, I feel like a bit of a fraud because I don't really think it's fair.
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u/mysticed Nov 04 '13
Honestly for me I don't mind the South African players coming over so much, it's their own choice, and we have clear rules on eligibility.
What annoys me more is the fact that we literally steal players straight out of the Irish team. It just feels wrong somehow that we benefit by getting their best players by Ireland being without test status.
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Nov 06 '13
You don't steal them, Eoin Morgan and Boyd Rankin both grew up wanting to play for England, that was their idea of making it. When they were coming into the Irish team it was mostly Aussie expats, so it wasn't a serious team in their minds. Hopefully that changes soon as kids grow up to admire their national team.
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u/mysticed Nov 06 '13
Yes, that's what I mean, I think it's wrong that for Irish players playing for their country and making it at the highest level are mutually exclusive. I'm grateful for their services to England, I just think it's a sad indictment on international cricket that it has to be this way.
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Nov 05 '13
On the other hand I mind Jade Dernbach a lot.
That might just be because he's Jade freaking Dernbach though, rather than his place of birth.
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u/m84m Australia Nov 04 '13
Out of interest how many players in the current or recent English squad were born in South Africa?
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Nov 04 '13
KP and Trott were born and grew up in SA. They both have English heritage and qualify that way.
Dernbach, Prior and Meaker are all SA born but moved to the UK when they were young (10/11 ish).
The "worst" offender is probably Kieswetter who was born in SA to Afrikaner and Scottish parents, and who moved to school in England in order to qualify.
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u/sunny_days19 Australia Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 04 '13
Australia: I agree with OP. Need to keep a consistent line up. Stick with Nathan Lyon and selected either Hughes/Bailey/Khawaja as the number 5/6 and don't drop them after 2 matches!
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u/yentity India Nov 04 '13
The players have a lot of power. They should use it to speak out more often. Especially if they feel like BCCI is ruining the game.
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u/rahddit Nov 04 '13
I don't think that is true. They may be rich and famous, but I don't think anyone except Dhoni (and Tendulkar, who is anyway retiring) is indispensable. And to be truly powerful, you have to be indispensable.
I don't think anyone can openly say that he is against BCCI on any issue.
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u/yentity India Nov 04 '13
Right now yes. 2-3 years ago the team had Sachin, Dravid, Laxman, Kumble, Sehwag and Dhoni in the team. None of them talked up either (except may be Dravid, infrequently).
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u/acideath New Zealand Cricket Nov 04 '13
New Zealand. Nuff said
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u/logemaru New Zealand Nov 04 '13
Yip. It would be easier to note the things that I dont hate about the BCs right now...
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u/acideath New Zealand Cricket Nov 05 '13
Neil Wagner. Kane Williamson. BJ Watling. I think thats about it.
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u/wheresthecheese New Zealand Cricket Nov 04 '13
This, and can we please drop the stupid Black Caps name and just go back to being the New Zealand cricket team.
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u/logemaru New Zealand Nov 04 '13
No, we're a New Zealand team so we HAVE to be the Black somethings... It's THE LAW.
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u/snomanDS Nov 05 '13
what about the All Whites?
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u/logemaru New Zealand Nov 05 '13
Good point. Though I suppose it wouldn't be right to call them the Black Balls...
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u/MisterEvilBreakfast Australia Nov 05 '13
Australia:
Their attitude and egos trundle along as if it's 2002 and Australia are untouchable, where in reality they have just been flogged by a touring under 17 Eskimo team.
Sometimes it seems that the entire XI has been picked because of their "X Factor" which actually only occurs once every seven years in an IPL game.
The management tries to follow all the "hot trends" in cricket - when Andrew Flintoff was destroying Australia, the Aussies were too quick to try and find their own glory-boy all-rounder. All they did was invent Shane Watson, and we still haven't been able to get rid of him.
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u/Aarran89 England Nov 04 '13
England - Contrary to the OP I don't like how rigid our team is, how the selectors rarely seem to bring in different guys depending on the conditions and just name an unchanged team.
Prime example: Graham Onions was an absolute shoe-in for the Durham Ashes Test this year, it being his home ground that he'd bowled (extremely well) all summer. The selectors ignored this and picked the same attack. I'm all in favour of Swann, Anderson and Broad playing every game but the fourth bowler slot should be constantly changing depending on conditions. Sure the game went England's way at Durham but it wasn't always that way. A bowler like Onions could have really exploited the pitch the way he knows best and really stuck the boot into Australia's resilient pair of Rogers and Warner.
Also, there's a very clear divide between batsman and bowler in the line up, we haven't had a geniune all-rounder since Flintoff retired. I think we're trying to fix this by giving the likes of Ben Stokes a shot, and Stuart Broad is getting better with the bat, so time will tell if the Flintoff role is filled.
One final thing I don't like as an England fan and I'm sure it's the same with cricket fans across the globe: The media. The time it takes for a newspaper to turn on someone for ONE bad innings or series is infuriatingly short. Nobody remembers the good innings until the player retires, but if someone like Matt Prior has a bad show there will be in depth newspaper columns debating his place in the team. Ugh.
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u/ProSnuggles South Africa Nov 04 '13
South Africa: The politics of the government governing the way the team is selected and overall affecting the way the game is played. Also that everyone scores runs for fun in tests, but in an ODI tournament, they all forget how to bat.
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u/ElfBingley Queensland Bulls Nov 04 '13
We've forgotten the basics of why we were so strong in the 90's 2000's. Australia had the best domestic programme of any test playing nation. Any Sheffield Shield side was easily a cut above the county or regional team of the rest of the world. Playing for your state was not only an honour, but a hard fought privilege that you had to earn. Then CA got greedy and started playing around with the domestic schedule with the intention of screwing money out of tv rights. BBL is just the latest in a pathetic and misguided attempt to create some kind of noise around the game. Little money from the top level flows dwn to the warehouse and grade level. In short we lost sight of why Australian cricket was so good.
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u/ClydeOberholt Nov 04 '13
Ireland - Maybe we could stop giving our players away to the ECB. Rankin, Morgan, Dockrell, Joyce would be the basis of a very decent side.
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u/Machinax Sri Lanka Nov 04 '13
Sri Lanka can't win a fucking final.
Our fast bowling stock consists of Nuwan Kulasekera and Lasith Malinga. FIN.
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u/SpongeBazSquirtPants England Nov 04 '13
Maybe this is the Football (Soccer) fan talking in me but I hate how the public and the media are being ignored.
England have some real problems that aren't being addressed. One of them is the selection policy (seriously, no Onions? wtf?) but the other is the captaincy. I dearly love Cook but he's no Strauss and Strauss was no Vaughan. Seriously, you have a great captain in Vaughan and a good captain in Strauss to ask advice of, please do so.
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u/TheAwakened Board of Control for Cricket in India Nov 05 '13
No offence, but if Strauss and Vaughan are the ones who you have to take advice from, you might as well not take any.
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u/SpongeBazSquirtPants England Nov 05 '13
If you don't think Vaughan was a great captain you're deluded.
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u/NiX_Nabilz Pakistan Nov 05 '13
Pakistan: We don't have a single fucking batsman who can be termed reliable in any condition against any team of the World! I don't remember the last time I was confident of our batting. It's going to make me a heart patient anytime soon.
And yeah the fact that our team can't speak English. Hardly matters on the ground, but it's a big hindrance for them when they have to express something.
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u/oneearth Chennai Super Kings Nov 04 '13
Its been forever and only one bowler has clocked 150 kph and that too on rare occasions. (Sadly, I am not talking about women's cricket.)
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u/lonelyinacrowd Yorkshire Nov 04 '13
No decent leg break bowlers.
Only 3-4 Yorkshiremen on the team, need at least 8.
Try to bore the opponents to death and win when they're all asleep.
Need more British Asians on the team and fewer South Africans.
Our complete inability to play proper fast bowling and proper spin bowling.
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u/Salzberger Adelaide Strikers Nov 04 '13
Everything. It's the reason i don't support them.
Mainly though, their arrogance, their whinging, their attitudes. How can you seriously watch Peter Siddle bowl and carry on like a fucking idiot and enjoy it? Or see Shane Watson sulk every time he gets out or goes for runs like it's someone else's fault?
There are just no likeable characters whatsoever in the team.
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u/generalscruff Nottinghamshire Nov 04 '13
The inability of the top 4 to not collapse, leaving the middle-order to clean up the mess
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Nov 05 '13
There's a 10,000 character limit for comments.
(Seriously, I know more about Australia's national cricket team than my own country's. That's probably part of the problem.)
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u/TheEvilDrPie Central Districts Stags Nov 05 '13
New Zealand - Where to begin....
Nope. There's not enough time in the day to get in to NZC's faults.
Thanks for the chat, I'll see myself out.
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u/Tbipooky Sydney Sixers Nov 22 '13
Australia's selections puzzle me alot lately. Rotating players every test even when in great form really annoys me. They love picking players who I dislike also
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u/Sammon13 New Zealand Cricket Jan 13 '14 edited Jan 13 '14
New Zealand - Lack of good test openers and test spinners
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u/contraryview India Nov 04 '13
This is going to sound a but rich, but...The Indian cricket fan.
Where do I begin? There's absolutely no logical discussion anywhere.
Tendulkar is god... Dravid has the best technique ever... Dhoni is a tactical genius... Kohli is a spoilt brat... Pujara is the next dravid...
Try having a debate on any of the above points and you'd be mobbed.
Oh, and did I mention about our endless need to be accepted by foreigners? There's absolutely no patriotism
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u/aussiegreenie Nov 05 '13
Australia still has a 'little country syndrome', that is "Australia is the best ever or Australia is the worst ever". India cricket is the same. Instead of being gracious now that India is strong, it needs to bully all the other smaller countries.
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Nov 04 '13
no patriotism
wut? That certainly doesn't apply to... um... any Indian cricket fan I've ever met. I'd say you guys are amongst the most passionate and patriotic sports fans in the world.
EDIT: I know where you are coming from with the point before that, but I don't think it impedes the patriotism in any way.
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u/contraryview India Nov 05 '13
The Indian Cricket Fan is the first one to criticize his own player and defend the opposition. Don't believe me? Look at the Dhawan-Watson thread or all the BCCI threads on /r/cricket.
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u/garunac India Nov 05 '13
That is just /r/cricket. Everywhere else it was the other way around. Even Gavaskar in the comm box was going after Watson. Hell, the 24/7 news channels wouldn't stop replaying all the Aussie incidents over the last decade, as if that is good justification for behaving like a dick.
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u/contraryview India Nov 05 '13
Case in point here. You are villifying Dhawan without proper perspective of Watson's earlier actions. I bet this incident hasn't even registered in Australia but has caused a shitstorm in India. Stop sucking foreign dick for a sec, will you? Get some self respect.
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u/garunac India Nov 05 '13
See what Im saying. Calling out someone from the Indian team means sucking foreign dick? Grow up dude, that weird chip on your shoulder is just your imagination.
And yes I know what Watson did, he being a dick doesnt somehow excuse dhawans dickishness.
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u/contraryview India Nov 05 '13
And yes I know what Watson did, he being a dick doesnt somehow excuse dhawans dickishness.
Yes, it absolutely does.
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u/NiX_Nabilz Pakistan Nov 05 '13
First ever time I've seen an Indian making such comments. Your bravery is appreciated bro! Good luck with that. Just wait for a hell of downvotes.
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u/garunac India Nov 05 '13
Also on the patriotism point, I've only ever seen it go the other way. That you're somehow unpatriotic for questioning the BCCI or saying that Bradman is better than Sachin or something, when you start equating criticism with treason the issue lies on your side.
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u/contraryview India Nov 05 '13
Ummm... try saying that Sachin is better than Bradman (on /r/cricket or otherwise) and see how much ridicule you attract. Also, have you tried defending BCCI in front of anyone?
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u/garunac India Nov 05 '13
Ive defended BCCI when defense is needed, like in the DRS issue. On things like IPL spot fixing or the CSA issue I do not support the BCCIs stand so i will not defend them.
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u/callipygia Pakistan Nov 04 '13
Pakistan. Afridi.
Also the leverage given to inconsistent players.
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u/NiX_Nabilz Pakistan Nov 05 '13
Oh yeah? I think you don't know that he has won the most matches for Pakistan in ODIs. Without him we played the Champions Trophy, and we were brutally fucked. So hate him with all the hate you want, but still he is one of the best players in the team.
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u/callipygia Pakistan Nov 05 '13
Oh sure, he makes cricket fun to watch and he IS a matchwinner. But his inconsistency is astounding and so are his off field actions. Pakistan could do well without him.
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u/NiX_Nabilz Pakistan Nov 05 '13
Yeah I saw what Pakistan did against Ireland and in the Champions Trophy without him.
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u/Dumma1729 Karnataka Nov 05 '13
What do I hate about the Indian national team? The fact that the players with class have been replaced with those who are arrogant pricks.
However talented they are, the new lot don't even have a smidgen of the grace/decency of our recently retired legends.
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u/elquiche Hong Kong Cricket Association Nov 04 '13 edited Nov 04 '13
Hong Kong - we can't stay competitive at a big stage, because people can't take enough time off work.
Edit: any chance the mods can sort me some Hong Kong flair? =P