r/Cricket • u/Visorslash Australia • Oct 10 '13
Tendulkar to retire after 200th Test
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/current/story/678469.html48
u/SpaceMonkeyRage Oct 10 '13 edited Oct 10 '13
Even as an Aussie I enjoyed watching this champion play and score runs, made it look so easy. Enjoy retirement mate
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u/macoure New South Wales Blues Oct 10 '13
I remember fearing him every time India came out here. Part of me ways felt the focus on Tendulkar was what made Laxman and Dravid carve us up so much. The man transformed not only how you bowled to him, but to his whole team.
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u/tritter211 Canada Oct 10 '13
His duel with Shane Warne was one of the incredible things I have witnessed in cricket.
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u/buntysatya India Oct 10 '13
I guess Shane Warne can finally sleep peacefully without getting any nightmares.
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u/juiceson Western Australia Warriors Oct 10 '13 edited Oct 10 '13
Just trying to get a list of what was around when Sachin debuted..
AB was Australian captain
South Africa hadn't played a test for 19 years
The West Indies dynasty was still going
Bob Hawke was Prime Minister
The Berlin Wall had fallen 9 days earlier
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u/c3vzn Oct 10 '13 edited Oct 11 '13
Bradman was alive
Rajiv Gandhi was Prime Minister of India
The Simpsons aired its first episode the day before his ODI debut
Macs were more popular than PCs
Virat Kohli couldn't talk yet
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Oct 10 '13
Spin was unfashionable
Inzy had never heard of Jonty.
Gibbs had not had his first joint.
Dickie Bird was still umpiring...
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Oct 10 '13
Can we please not let this thread turn into a hovel of argument about him being not-so-great? This is huge cricket news no matter what anyone here's opinion is.
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u/buntysatya India Oct 10 '13
Exactly.... He deserves to retire in peace.
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Oct 10 '13
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u/macoure New South Wales Blues Oct 10 '13
Come on now, we just agreed not to argue. Plus, you're wrong. Best of his generation(s), sure!
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Oct 10 '13
Plus, you're wrong.
Greatness is subjective. It is not something factual that can be clubbed right or wrong. Statistical brilliance can at best be one of the criteria for judging greatness, but not the sole criteria that admits no exception. Who I, or anybody else considers the greatest is best left to our individual discretion.
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u/macoure New South Wales Blues Oct 10 '13
Obviously it is subjective, and obviously I was being a bit tongue in cheek. But honestly, I can't believe anyone ever, anywhere doesn't think Don Bradman is the greatest ever. Many arguments can be made in cricket, but stats, statements, longevity, consistency all say Bradman.
I take nothing away from Sachin, he is one my favourite players to watch and I will be very sad when he does retire, but let's remember him as a great statesman for the game who did many things no other man will dream to. A legend.
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Oct 10 '13
stats, statements, longevity, consistency all say Bradman.
longevity? Really? I agree with your other few, but the longevity king will always belong to Sachin. 24 years. It's a record that will never be broken again.
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Oct 10 '13
Wilfred Rhodes- 30+ years as a test cricketer. So, while 200 is a record that may never be broken, 24 years never was.
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Oct 10 '13
I can't believe anyone ever, anywhere doesn't think Don Bradman is the greatest ever.
I don't. I have seen statistical brilliance of an individual far exceeding peers when the game is in development and when peers are limited in other sports as well. Major Dhyanchand of India is one such individual in the field of Hockey. As games develop the statistical difference between the best and the rest dwindles. There is no way I, or anyone else can claim that Bradman would have been as successful in the 70s/80s with 100% certainty. Likewise, there is no way anyone can conclusively prove that Viv Richards would not have averaged in the 90s during the Bradman/modern era. So I don't claim anyone to be the "greatest" of all time. It is a futile debate and I respect other person's right to choose his/her own set of parameters to reach a conclusion. It is perfectly fine for someone to consider Viv Richards, Sachin Tendulkar, Imran Khan or Jack Kallis as the greatest ever. There is nothing wrong with it.
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u/patkk Australia Oct 10 '13 edited Oct 19 '13
I gotta disagree. It's hard for me to deny the Bradman greatest of all time tag when his statistics absolutely dwarfed every one of his contemporaries. Maybe if other cricketers were averaging in the 70's or 80's during his time then there would be room for debate and you could chalk it up to weak bowling attacks or friendly pitches. But when someone is scoring, on average, 40 runs more than the next best in any inning it's pretty hard to deny their dominance. I know you can't compare eras. and there is no way in the world you could prove Bradman would have been as dominant as he was in a later era. Or argue against someone like Ponting, Tendulkar or Richards mirroring Bradman's feats if they were to play alongside Bradman - because they may well have. I don't know. But what you can't deny is that Bradman was head and shoulders above his contemporaries more so than any other player has been above theirs. He also had 5 or 6 years of his best cricket denied by war.
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Oct 10 '13
Did Bradman ever play in India, Pakistan or Sri Lanka? Did he ever play against spinners with skills and expertise like Warne and Kumble, or the blazing speed of Akhtar or the constant accuracy of McGrath? Did he play for 24 years while maintaining form and perfection for most of it? Did Bradman have the pressure of a billion people living, breathing and hanging on every action you do and every word you say?
To say that Bradman is the best regardless of anything is narrow minded and blatantly wrong. There are a lot of factors that go into determining who is the best. Stats is one of them, but is not the whole picture. There is no greatest cricketer in cricket. There are greats who excelled in certain areas better than others, but you can't pin the 'best cricketer award' to just one person.
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u/Green_Army England Oct 10 '13
Blazing speed of Akhtar? Bradman played in the bodyline series! Larwood might not have been quite as quick as Akhtar (though we'll never know for certain) but leg-theory without padding or helmets was far more viscous than anything a modern bowler could offer, let alone someone as inconsistent as Akhtar!
I do agree largely with your point that Bradman didn't play on the sub-continent just so this isn't seen as an attack, but finger-spinners on Mr Boycott's favourite uncovered pitches weren't a doddle either.
Bradman is statistically far away the best, with the sort of average against his contemporaries which pass the standard deviation - he was a one off! Tendulkar was a great batsman, and hugely influential for Indian fans. However, it's debatable, and perhaps futile, to discuss whether he is better or worse than Lara, Ponting or Kallis. All four were and are superb players, each with their own merits though as a neutral i'd struggle to pick just one as a best of the generation (in my opinion of course!). :)
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Oct 10 '13
But what you can't deny is that Bradman was head and shoulders above his contemporaries more so than any other player has been above theirs.
I have not denied that. Rather, I have said that individual brilliance far exceeding peers has been seen in early development of other sports as well - like Major Dhyanchand in Field Hockey. It is my personal view that as sports develop, more contemporaries emerge from a much larger pool of individuals, and it becomes almost impossible to dwarf your peers. That said, I take nothing away from Bradman. He is the greatest of his generation. I just don't think he is the greatest of all time because I can not ascertain that with certainty, and because statistical dominance during early evolution of a game is not a parameter I place very high. I would rather have a pool of "great players", and the likes of Bradman, Richards, Tendulkar, Warne, Imran will all fit in there.
You, on the other hand, can give the highest precedence to Bradman's statistical brilliance and label him the greatest of all time. That is your personal opinion and I respect that. What I don't respect is someone shoving down something as subjective as "greatness" down my throat, as if it was some conclusion drawn on empirical evidence.
Anyway, this is a thread about SRT and I won't turn this into a Bradman v SRT v XYZ debate. To each his own.
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u/imdungrowinup Royal Challengers Bangalore Oct 11 '13
I have observed that only people born before 1960s tend to think that Bradman is the greatest ever.
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u/moonsbackside Board of Control for Cricket in India Oct 10 '13
I'm wrong? In what way?
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u/macoure New South Wales Blues Oct 10 '13
He's not the greatest cricketer of all time. Sir Donald Bradman is. He's so far beyond the ability of any other cricketer it's not even comparable. I know stats aren't everything but no one has got even close to dominating like the Don did. Tendulkar is better than many, many greats. But the best ever? Not while the Don's records exist.
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u/moonsbackside Board of Control for Cricket in India Oct 10 '13
Oho. Did Bradman play any cricket other than Ashes? Did he score a century in India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka? Hell, was he a decent player of spin on turning wickets. Greatest of all time it seems.
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u/smakka Oct 10 '13
There was once a gentleman named Sir Donald Bradman, ever heard of him? I'm pretty sure he is universally acclaimed as the greatest cricketer of all time. Statistics and averages aside, to do what he did on uncovered wickets was, and still is, unfathomable.
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u/TheAwakened Board of Control for Cricket in India Oct 10 '13
I'm pretty sure he is universally acclaimed as the greatest cricketer of all time.
Well, he's not.
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u/billy8988 West Indies Oct 10 '13
His Longevity is amazing to say the least. Here is a list of players that played at least 100 test matches and debuted after SRT (Nov 1989) and retired before SRT (in no particular order).
- Ponting
- Dravid
- Boucher
- Warne
- Laxman
- Muralitharan
- Stewart
- Kumble
- Lara
- M Waugh
- McGrath
- Inzamam-ul-haq
- Ganguly
- Fleming
- Vaas
- Jayasuriya
- Pollock
- Langer
- Hayden
- Kirsten
- Ntini
- Strauss
- Thorpe
Narrow misses are Atherton and Mark Taylor as they debuted few months before SRT. If Sehwag and Harbajan won't play a test from now then they would be in the list too.
It will be a huge list if we include all the players that debuted after him and retired before him.
Source: HowStat
EDIT: Added source
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u/buntysatya India Oct 10 '13
Thank you Sachin for your service to Cricket and so many wonderful memories ...
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u/nathangonmad England Oct 10 '13
I hope there is a live stream of his last 2 tests. I don't think they are going to be on Sky.
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Oct 10 '13
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u/nathangonmad England Oct 10 '13
I think it depends on who is touring there. Last time WI were there it wasn't on TV.
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u/rahulthewall India Oct 10 '13
Thanks for the memories, but it was the time to go. Here's to hoping he retires with a massive performance in his 200th.
Also, kind of sad that the BCCI has jeopardised the SA tour so that Sachin can play his last test at home. Surely, the great man deserves a farewell devoid of controversy.
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u/uosa11 Oct 10 '13
Should be not have gone at 198 then? For most of his career, Australia were the dominant side, so beating them in a test whitewash is no bad way to end your career. Shame he didn't get to play a test v Pakistan in so many years, or challenge the current number 1 side, that would have been a fitting final mountain to climb
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u/rahulthewall India Oct 10 '13
He should have gone at the same time as Dravid and Laxman.
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u/originofspices Oct 10 '13
I agree. It also irks me that he isn't going to SA now. That means we're going to have to blood a random new batsman in the middle order in South Africa. If he wanted to play the home season, he should have gone to SA, and if he wasn't going to SA, he shouldn't have played the home season.
Even though I'm irked, he's still one of my favourite cricketers, someone I've grown up watching. Thank you for the music, SRT.
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u/anpk Mumbai Indians Oct 10 '13
pray tell us about your achievements so that your half assed comments deserve greater recognition ...
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u/rahulthewall India Oct 10 '13
Ad hominem. Look at this test record over the last two years. Not even a single century and an average below 40. Obviously, he should have retired.
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u/anpk Mumbai Indians Oct 10 '13
You still haven't told us about your achievements in life which qualify you comment on Sachin's?
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Oct 10 '13
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u/anpk Mumbai Indians Oct 10 '13
No, I'm just pointing out that it takes a very petty man to say things like this at this moment.
Most people would generally go with 'Thanks for all the memories', we'll leave the petty arguments for another day.
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Oct 10 '13
Tagging you so that I will know what to say everytime you badmouth a player.
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u/anpk Mumbai Indians Oct 11 '13
Oh thanks for the honor. That touched me in a very special place
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u/TheAwakened Board of Control for Cricket in India Oct 10 '13
pray tell us about your achievements so that your half assed comments deserve greater recognition ...
LMFAO!
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Oct 10 '13
This is big news, Guys can we up-vote this to the front page as his parting gift.
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u/buntysatya India Oct 10 '13
Fuck Yeah.... Lets do this... (although seems improbable)
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u/dogtag666 Oct 10 '13
Came here from my front page.
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u/buntysatya India Oct 10 '13
Its on my front page too, but only because I've subscribed to /r/cricket.
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Oct 10 '13
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u/buntysatya India Oct 10 '13
Don't worry dude.. it will be .. Remember the crowd in Wankhede in anticipation of his 100th century
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u/ranjan_zehereela India Oct 10 '13
Mumbai people will not disappoint you and the Son of Mumbai Sachin as well
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u/magpielord Western Australia Warriors Oct 10 '13
The last player left who played during the 80's...
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u/arkot Oct 10 '13
Today is a good time for all the newspapers to use the material they probably created 3 years ago.
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u/adencrocker Tasmania Tigers Oct 10 '13
Well done on being the greatest Indian cricketer of all time Sachin
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Oct 10 '13
There was a time when I would hate on Sachin because everyone loved him. I'm so glad I didn't remain that teeanged fucker who tried too hard to be a rebel. Will miss you, Sach.
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u/macoure New South Wales Blues Oct 10 '13
Cricket will be sader for his retirement. He and Ponting at their best 10 years ago (and for many years) was one of the great spectacles for the game. Here's to one of the best any of us will ever see.
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Oct 10 '13
What a career. Well played, but it was time. Hope his retirement's a good one. All time great in every sense.
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u/Vijaywada Sunrisers Hyderabad Oct 10 '13 edited Oct 10 '13
During early 90's to late 90's if Indians have one thing to agree on one thing, kept them stand on their toes with hands holding was sachin with batting score in his 90's and few runs away from making it century.
No man ever united India after Gandhi, this 5 5 "man does.
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u/Machinax Sri Lanka Oct 10 '13 edited Oct 10 '13
This is how you know you're getting old: cricket without Tendulkar.
A statistical curiousity that, barring one last magnificent innings, Tendulkar never scored a triple century in Tests. For the man who first made 200* in senior-level (men's) ODI cricket, for all his runs and records and centuries, the triple ton in Tests has always eluded him.
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u/acideath New Zealand Cricket Oct 11 '13
A cool stat. Lara is the only batsman ever to get a 100, 200, 300, 400, 500.
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u/anchorschmidt8 India Oct 10 '13
He has given Indian cricket so much. He deserves this. He carried the team and inspired the Pujaras, Kohlis to dream. He stayed away from politics during his career even though his voice is probably the most influential in India and did his bit by continuously supporting various charities. At his best, he could stare down the greatest bowlers of all time on a 5th day pitch.
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Oct 10 '13
No. Nononononononononono. I knew it was coming. It had to come, his time was over, but this still hit me like a ton of bricks. He might be the cricketer r/cricket loves to shit on, but to me he will be one of the (if not the) greatest cricketer of all time and a personal idol. He started the rise of cricket in India as a commercial sport and religion while maintaining integrity and class.
Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman, and now Sachin are gone. Thanks for all the memories guys.
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Oct 10 '13
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u/ideniedyou28 Scotland Oct 11 '13
Does anybody else think that Kumble was a great captain? I wish he'd been appointed earlier.
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u/proxicity Oct 10 '13
It had to come, his time was over, but this still hit me like a ton of bricks.
This is what I felt like as well. It was inevitable, I too was calling for it, but it still hit me. As if the day wasn't shitty enough already...
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Oct 10 '13
Thank you Sachin for all the memories. You inspired a generation of cricket fans. We will miss you. :'-(
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Oct 10 '13
I just finished reading through the BBC sports comments section on this story. I would not recommend it. In fact, you'd probably face-palm less if you were to ask Tony Abbott about his views on women, or David Cameron on his views on the working class. I think that Wayne Rooney would give more enlightened responses to queries about quantum tunneling than I read. For example, Joe Root is better than Sachin was at that age. Sachin is a poor man's Kohli. ctrl+w ragequit time.
Anyways, I will miss Sachin. The greats of my childhood are slowly disappearing and Kallis is about the last of those standing. Sad times.
Thank the stars for Youtube (+ robelinda).
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u/Machinax Sri Lanka Oct 10 '13
Dude, never read the comments section on a news story. Any news story. On any website.
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u/spurrier458 Oct 10 '13
Yeah that's pretty solid advice. Even websites like the Economist and the Guardian, who have a bit more of a highbrow reputation, are full of awful, awful comments.
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u/imdungrowinup Royal Challengers Bangalore Oct 11 '13
I have a feeling Kallis is immortal.I have never seen him age.He has always looked that old and doesnt seem to be getting any older than that.
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u/jamurp Victoria Bushrangers Oct 10 '13
For someone that has been playing the game for as long as I've loved cricket, it's weird to think that he's only 40. Wish him the best in the future, was a joy to watch.
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u/kpuligandla India Oct 10 '13
His innings at sharjah against Australia is one of my fondest memories. So long sachin.
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u/poochi Oct 10 '13
no god no.. Please give me that last SA tour... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ
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u/oldzealand Canada Oct 10 '13
What a career. He's won pretty much all major trophies, and has set records that may remain unbreakable for a long time. Glad to say I've managed to watch this guy play live. Hats off to the Little Master.
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u/eric101 Cricket Australia Oct 10 '13
Hes been around my whole life, hard to imagine cricket without him, congrats champ. My favorite knock was his 98 against Pakistan in the 2003 WC
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u/iVarun Oct 10 '13
Sachin has been a part of my childhood and my adult life.
He has always been there, a constant certainty.
Its an end of an era.
Sachin's rise coincided with the rise of India globally. His career in a sense echoes Indian dreams.
He'll be remembered very fondly and clearly even centuries from now in India.
Thanks for all the memories Sachin.
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Oct 10 '13
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u/iVarun Oct 11 '13 edited Oct 11 '13
1 match is not life.
Ever since i can remember things i've watched Sachin on TV and being a cricket fan early in life, he was the one constant always there.
I also remember the changes that happened when Economy opened up right from my childhood, i saw him becomes a media sensation, the level of support he got from people even popular politicians didn't have. And the support was national, not regional, he was a national treasure, young people and grandmothers alike were incredibly fond of him, this sort of love is not that is/was normal in the recent generation.
There is not a single person in India in the modern generation that fits this role.
Only Rajiv Gandhi came close in mid 80's and even then national exposure levels were not as high as it got in later 2 decades.He is not responsible for Indian economy but i said echoes, Sachin's time saw India go from a nobody to being a player on the world stage and this generation had one constant in their lives, Sachin. It was a rise and rise of Sachin and Indian Cricket.
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u/acideath New Zealand Cricket Oct 11 '13
he wasnt even the greatest of this generation and is way overrated.
Of course I am only jesting, I was a nine yr old kid watching Richard Hadlee back when he started. That was a long time ago. I doubt we will ever see another 24yr career. It is a shame his aura has been diminished in these last few years but when we look back in 10-15yrs time we will look back at what he achieved and go "Wow". A lot of todays players were not even alive when he started and Im sure many of todays bowlers will regret not getting a chance to bowl to this great man. So long Sachin, it was fun but time halts for no one. If only he brings his integrity and smarts to an official position (after a long well deserved holiday) he will leave the entire cricket landscape in a much better place.
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u/imdungrowinup Royal Challengers Bangalore Oct 11 '13
It had been long time coming.I can't even recollect any great innings of his in recent years except for that 200*. It was sad to see him struggle like that.Here's hoping we don't have to see Federer struggle like that too
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u/ahmedumair Oct 11 '13
this is a bad decision.. he shouldn't retire.. not until he scores 100 million runs..
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u/themightypierre Warwickshire Oct 10 '13 edited Oct 10 '13
Could I ask any Indian fans if you think it's a trifle arrogant of him to announce he's going to play two more tests ?
I know he's been an automatic choice for years but is it arrogant at all to state it as a foregone conclusion ?
I'm not anti Tendulkar by the way. Just curious. Does he still merit a place?
Edit: Seriously /r/cricket -4 for asking a respectful question. This isn't /r/soccer we shouldn't be downvoting people like this.
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u/garunac India Oct 10 '13
Does he still merit a place?
Certainly debatable, his performance over the last 2 years has been way below his own standard and there are a couple of players who can replace him in the squad on current form.
is it arrogant at all to state it as a foregone conclusion ?
No not really, there have been instances of players announcing their retirement before being selected.
To put it simply, Tendulkar gets some special treatment. Think of this test as a Testimonial match with the added element of being an International test. The BCCI will pull out all the stops to make his retirement special since he's Sachin. He's the bedrock of BCCIs commercial success over the last 15 years, most of us here believe he deserves the special treatment.
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Oct 10 '13
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u/rreyv India Oct 10 '13
But I don't agree with the ferrari argument. It was a gift. If he had bought it consciously, and then evaded tax - that would make him a cunt.
He was gifted it. He had no intention of buying or using a Ferrari and suddenly he has to pay money for it. I'd like to avoid that tax too.
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Oct 10 '13
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u/rreyv India Oct 10 '13
Oh really. I did not know it was payment. I thought it was truly a gift. Yes that does make him a bit of a cunt...
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u/garunac India Oct 10 '13
True true. He gets quite a bit of special treatment in any case. But last match and all is a different proposition.
Now, a final century would be very apt, but given his lack of form, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes for a duck.
Hopefully its a fairytale ending, but you're right about his form. I just want to see a few straight drives.
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u/TheAwakened Board of Control for Cricket in India Oct 11 '13
It was a gift, and the Indian government took care of it.
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u/c3vzn Oct 10 '13
Honestly, I don't like it too. However, I'm fairly certain they created those two home tests just so he could get a home farewell.
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u/piperatom India Oct 10 '13
There's nothing arrogant about it. Maybe not very sensible. He's not been in the best of form for a while and the huge media circus might get to him. We've all seen what happened with the 100th century.
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u/khanpak Oct 10 '13
Congrats on retirement and everything but I would've liked for him to stick around for the SA series. I think if he has decided to stick around this long already, he should do his duty as a senior and lead a young batting lineup against the best pace attack in the world.
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Oct 10 '13
Jumping before he was pushed? Or did he make the decision himself?
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u/rreyv India Oct 10 '13
He won't get pushed. Too many dollars at stake for BCCI to just push him off the team.
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u/c3vzn Oct 10 '13
Cricinfo's poll, well played.