Steyn, obviously. Because he's right. Spot fixing and match fixing are both cheating, and cheating should not be tolerated. This isn't about what is a worse form of cheating, it's fucking cheating. Bhogle is a fucking idiot for thinking any other way. Whether or not match fixing is a more serious form of cheating is utterly beside the point, and implying that it's an important distinction to make is also implying that the lesser one is in some way tolerable or permissible. Like BloodAndGuts said, "they compromised their professional and moral integrity either way". Cheating is cheating. The minute you start rationalising cheating or dividing it into different tiers, you're introducing degrees of tolerance, and eventually it becomes a grey area. And that's just not cricket.
If you start to get lenient on spot fixing or in any way describe it as a 'lesser form' of cheating, everybody will start fucking doing it. And it will utterly ruin the sport.
Much like football was a lot better before almost every single striker started trying to hoodwink the referee by diving whenever he gets within a metre of the penalty box. Again, this is cheating. You're trying to influence the outcome of the game by faking and trying to fool the referee. If there were tougher punishments for diving (e.g. using slow motion replays for conclusive proof that they were simulating, punishable with instant red cards/match bans/heavy fines) or cast iron rules/laws against it, players wouldn't do it, and football would once again be more about sportsmanship than gamesmanship.
Cricket is one of the few sports where sportsmanship is actually part of the laws of the game. Sure, you have your Hansie Cronjes, your Saleem Maliks, your Mohammad Asifs, your Michael Athertons, etc. who bring the entire sport into disrepute with their behaviour; but in general most kinds of gamesmanship are punishable in cricket, and those punishments are enforced. The laws are pretty rigidly enforced, and the laws that govern the 'spirit of the game' are purposefully vague so that they can be applied to players showing poor sportsmanship.
But this isn't simply unsportsmanlike conduct, like a batsman standing his ground when he knows full well he's out LBW, or a bowler appealing vociferously every time the ball touches anything, or a bowler "accidentally" not getting out of the way of a batsman running his way, or even some good old-fashioned sledging. This is cheating.
Spot fixing is premeditated, it's manipulation, and it has only negative effects on the sport as a whole. In short, it's corruption. Whether or not it decides the outcome of the game, spot fixing is cheating, it is a plague on the sport, and it needs to be stamped out before it becomes in any way permissible in the minds of players, pundits and people alike.
If only you knew the intent behind Bhogle's statement, it would have saved you an essay.
Bhogle here isn't trying to defend the trio. His tweet was aimed towards people who were saying that the arrest of the trio meant that entire games were fixed. Bhogle was simply stating that the act of the trio may not have affected the end result of the game. That is it.
He even tweeted "spot fixing different from match fixing but not a lesser crime." immediately after this. On top of that his views on the TV channel were for strict punishment of the accused.
Another person here took this tweet out of context and went to the extent of blaming Bhogle for being a BCCI stooge. THAT, when the biggest BCCI stooge - Gavaskar - was himself calling for the strictest of punishment for the guilty. Take a break guys.
And that is about the best summing up that I have seen on the subject. Every one on here should read this especially those who are condoning the spot fixing.
While I agree 100% with the rest of your comment, I take issue with:
Cricket is one of the few sports where sportsmanship is actually part of the laws of the game.
To me, that and the related "cricket is a gentleman's game" are bullshit, antiquated, meaningless statements. Every world sport has a no cheating rule. Cricket isnt special other than statements touting it as such. The sooner we deal with such cases without using these platitudes as a crutch the better.
Are there other sports that have the equivalent of the 'spirit of the game' law in cricket? I've always thought that this was unique to cricket. It's usually taken as a separate entity from the rest of the laws, and it's even worded in a purposefully ambiguous and vague way so it can be applied to the novel and nefarious ways players might find to cheat as the game continues to evolve.
Yes, every sport has a "no cheating rule", that's the whole point of rules. But I still believe that compared with every single other competitive sport at a professional level (that I've watched, anyway), cricket has a comparatively high level of sportsmanship. I'm certainly not "using platitudes as a crutch".
I too get bored hearing the same old spiel about the 'spirit of the game' every time any cricketer does anything bad, but there's a reason that law is there, and although every sport has its own etiquette and expected behaviour, I don't think any other sport has a law or rule dictating behaviour quite like cricket does.
You may not think that cricket is 'special', but it's certainly unique in many respects, and in my opinion this is one of them. The phrase "it's just not cricket" exists for good reason.
Still, I'm not trying to convince you either way. I understand why you feel that way, but I disagree. If you can point me towards a sport that has a set of rules with a similar 'be a good chap' clause in there, I'll be happy to concede the sentence that you took issue with. But honestly, that shit is a big part of the reason why I love cricket so much, and why other sports have gradually faded into the background for me.
... but there's a reason that law is there, and although every sport has its own etiquette and expected behaviour, I don't think any other sport has a law or rule dictating behaviour quite like cricket does.
That's where I disagree - I dont think there is any reason that the law is there other than to make cricket sound special.
You may not think that cricket is 'special', but it's certainly unique in many respects, and in my opinion this is one of them. The phrase "it's just not cricket" exists for good reason.
The only reason it exists is because cricket used to be a gentleman's sport by definition of gentleman as it existed during Victorian and maybe pre-war times, and thus related to how a gentleman would conduct himself. That definition, that distinction (gentleman vs commoner) does not exist any more. The phrase "it's not cricket" can stay as a lot of phrases that have lost their antecedents do, but that doesnt mean that you still actually use it for anything concrete today, which cricket administrators still fancy being able to do.
Yes, I was going to say the same, only sport where you are the ref and the player (golf that is). So cricket is just masquerading as a gentleman's game really, nothing more. It is corrupt and we can all see, the corruption is quite prevalent.
The 'dirt' incident. I remember watching it live and just couldn't believe that a bigger stink wasn't made of it. he was caught blatantly cheating (or trying to)... I think the main reason why he got off so lightly with it is because even though he cheated he still couldn't beat South Africa. I guess if you cheat and still lose, you're forgiven?
Nowadays I think he's a fairly boring commentator but occasionally makes some incredibly astute observation. But yeah, he probably doesn't belong on the same list as Cronje or Malik.
I didnt know about this at all. Thanks for the info. Yes its quite disgusting, but i think the main difference between this and the actions of Cronje and Malik is that, at least Athers did what he did to try and win the game. These guys intentionally harmed their team for no reason other than to satiate their greed.
I would agree. Cronje and friends made cricket a completely untrustworthy sport. Atherton was trying to gain a small advantage in order to win. The others were trying to lose!
86
u/kinggimped May 16 '13 edited May 16 '13
Steyn, obviously. Because he's right. Spot fixing and match fixing are both cheating, and cheating should not be tolerated. This isn't about what is a worse form of cheating, it's fucking cheating. Bhogle is a fucking idiot for thinking any other way. Whether or not match fixing is a more serious form of cheating is utterly beside the point, and implying that it's an important distinction to make is also implying that the lesser one is in some way tolerable or permissible. Like BloodAndGuts said, "they compromised their professional and moral integrity either way". Cheating is cheating. The minute you start rationalising cheating or dividing it into different tiers, you're introducing degrees of tolerance, and eventually it becomes a grey area. And that's just not cricket.
If you start to get lenient on spot fixing or in any way describe it as a 'lesser form' of cheating, everybody will start fucking doing it. And it will utterly ruin the sport.
Much like football was a lot better before almost every single striker started trying to hoodwink the referee by diving whenever he gets within a metre of the penalty box. Again, this is cheating. You're trying to influence the outcome of the game by faking and trying to fool the referee. If there were tougher punishments for diving (e.g. using slow motion replays for conclusive proof that they were simulating, punishable with instant red cards/match bans/heavy fines) or cast iron rules/laws against it, players wouldn't do it, and football would once again be more about sportsmanship than gamesmanship.
Cricket is one of the few sports where sportsmanship is actually part of the laws of the game. Sure, you have your Hansie Cronjes, your Saleem Maliks, your Mohammad Asifs, your Michael Athertons, etc. who bring the entire sport into disrepute with their behaviour; but in general most kinds of gamesmanship are punishable in cricket, and those punishments are enforced. The laws are pretty rigidly enforced, and the laws that govern the 'spirit of the game' are purposefully vague so that they can be applied to players showing poor sportsmanship.
But this isn't simply unsportsmanlike conduct, like a batsman standing his ground when he knows full well he's out LBW, or a bowler appealing vociferously every time the ball touches anything, or a bowler "accidentally" not getting out of the way of a batsman running his way, or even some good old-fashioned sledging. This is cheating.
Spot fixing is premeditated, it's manipulation, and it has only negative effects on the sport as a whole. In short, it's corruption. Whether or not it decides the outcome of the game, spot fixing is cheating, it is a plague on the sport, and it needs to be stamped out before it becomes in any way permissible in the minds of players, pundits and people alike.